149 replies to this topic

[MWHawke]

Writhen, on 02 February 2013 - 07:03 PM, said:

Not very bright are you?

Window, on 02 February 2013 - 08:06 PM, said:

Your comprehension is lacking, this whole post is about competitive play ONLY.
So unless you have something to contribute regarding the COMPETITIVE gameplay in MWO then please leave it at the door.

Talking about PUG play has nothing to do with what is being discussed here.

Wow, you are talking about game-wide mechanics and you mean it doesn't apply to anyone else? Nice.

[Tennex]

you can rave all day about how the current sSRM. and LRM mechanisms are not a fun game mechanic. no skill game mechanic.

low risk high reward game mechanic.
but thy never listen.

theres no active part in its use.
and no active part in its avoidance. its just meh. and should not exist as a game mechanic.

its like folding pamphlets. you just do it.


Add an active component to AMS. press button, to activate AMS. Give it a cooldown. make avoiding missiles. active, and skill centered. (like a block button in action games)

anyone remember the part of the MW4 intro movie when the lance leader screams "activate AMS" ?

Edited by Tennex, 02 February 2013 - 10:24 PM.

[Centagon]

Really couldn't agree more. And I think the other competitive teams would be hard pressed to find a refutation.

[Tennex]

this game had no competitive future if they don't respond to balance issues in a timely manner.

take a page out of league of legends book. you may not play it but nobody can deny its success. (though as good game developers, you should really play the good games. and borrow from their success)

Edited by Tennex, 02 February 2013 - 10:26 PM.

[Caleb Lee]

80Bit, on 02 February 2013 - 12:31 PM, said:

The reason I don't agree with most nerf streak arguments is that streaks are really not good weapons for anything but light on light. When a Raven runs up to my HBK-4SP, my CDA-2A, or any heavier mech, I simply absorb their low DPS while blowing their face off with my high DPS. But you are totally right about the 3L vs Any Other Light situation.

Then you've never faced an A1 with all streaks chain firing to the point you are rocking around so much you can't aim hardly. That is the perfect example of cheddar. Two little missiles should not rock around a heavy mech and prior to ECM was one of the mechs I feared most. Now you have all the SRM boats replacing them which are marginally less bothersome. Once the maps become more open I expect them to die off where they belong.

As for the OP, I agree wholeheartedly... ECM needs a major rebalance and not talking TAG or PPC disruption either. ECM should be broken into it's three proper categories and not the OP current version of null signature, guardian etc... all lumped into one 1.5 ton 2 slot equipment.

IMHO SSRMs should lock on to wherever you aim on the mech, requiring you to aim and not simply keep your reticule over a target box. If you can't manage to keep it on the target then you don't get a lock. They also shouldn't do crazy 90 degree firing and be automatic hits but require you to face the target and have clear LOS with reasonable lateral/vertical movement. Then it actually becomes a game of skill versus automatic cheese. Their knock should be based on the opposing mechs tonnage. I.E. Lights should feel SSRM 2, Mediums a little, heavys a nudge and assaults barely anything. This helps balance it for when SSRM 6s come into play as if it's bad now it will only be exacerbated then.

[Az0r]

MWHawke, on 02 February 2013 - 10:15 PM, said:

Wow, you are talking about game-wide mechanics and you mean it doesn't apply to anyone else? Nice.

Pub mechanics don't apply to league play. You won't every see a raven get 5 kills in a league game except under very special circumstances.

[Writhenn]

MWHawke, on 02 February 2013 - 10:15 PM, said:

Wow, you are talking about game-wide mechanics and you mean it doesn't apply to anyone else? Nice.

I can't tell if you're trolling or actually that dumb to not get the point of a PuG game vs a RHoD league match.

[MWHawke]

Writhen, on 02 February 2013 - 10:32 PM, said:

I can't tell if you're trolling or actually that dumb to not get the point of a PuG game vs a RHoD league match.

So, what you are saying is this:

If you make the suggested changes, it will only affect RHoD League matches and leave the rest of us with the current game mechanics?

[Writhenn]

MWHawke, on 02 February 2013 - 10:37 PM, said:

So, what you are saying is this:

If you make the suggested changes, it will only affect RHoD League matches and leave the rest of us with the current game mechanics?

Still can't tell if you're trolling or have the reading comprehension of a five year old. Sorry.

[MWHawke]

Writhen, on 02 February 2013 - 10:43 PM, said:

Still can't tell if you're trolling or have the reading comprehension of a five year old. Sorry.

It's a simple question. Answer it rather than casting aspersions on people. You have just shown what a rude person you are. A person asks a questions and in 2 posts, you have thrown rude remarks instead of answering. Is that all you are good for? Being rude?

[Writhenn]

MWHawke, on 02 February 2013 - 10:51 PM, said:

It's a simple question. Answer it rather than casting aspersions on people. You have just shown what a rude person you are. A person asks a questions and in 2 posts, you have thrown rude remarks instead of answering. Is that all you are good for? Being rude?

Yes, not going to take you seriously when you think that us talking about Ravens is the only reason why they're taken over a Commando. Moreover your lack of understanding of pug=/=organized 8 man. And yes, I'll be rude when you don't take the time to read what is being said and throwing out baseless assumptions from a lack of experience.

[RocketDwarf]

MWHawke, on 02 February 2013 - 10:51 PM, said:

It's a simple question. Answer it rather than casting aspersions on people. You have just shown what a rude person you are. A person asks a questions and in 2 posts, you have thrown rude remarks instead of answering. Is that all you are good for? Being rude?

Have you played a RHoD match? It sounds like you haven't, in RHoD the dynamic is much different then an average PuG match. People don't run around like chickens with their heads cut off, and players are generally more skilled. So it's a bit silly to say that just because a person can get five kills in a PuG, that they can also get the same amount of kills in a competitive match. Edit: not exactly a reply to the above post, more of a reply to some of the things you have been saying on this thread.

Edited by RocketDwarf, 02 February 2013 - 11:13 PM.

[Arcadian Xero]

I dunno if it has been said already... And I don't particularly feel like reading through this whole thread to find out so I apologize if I am restating something.

I am primarily an assault/heavy pilot, but I dabble in lights and completely agree with the OP on all counts. Light mechs have stagnated and become a bunch of obnoxious 3Ls ruining everyone's day. However SSRMs are not the issue here, and I don't think ECM is either.

What needs to happen is stable netcode primarily. I ran in the RHoD tournament/league matches with the Dark Sabers, some of you probably know me, but the guy you competition folks probably all remember is ThePieMaker. He is our professional light pilot. Recently, with the netcode fix he went back to his 6ML Jenner, and has gone up against all those pesky 3L pilots, and he has ripped them to shreds. Literally... just tore them apart every time he came across them. Both premade, and PUG 3L pilots alike. And this is with the netcode only partially fixed, once the netcode is repaired and working as intended, and you put collisions back in, ECM ravens and SSRMs will no longer be an issue. Lights can coordinate tackles like they used to and shred the enemy lights like the old days. ECM will go back to being a tactical choice rather than a mandatory one.

Another thought is to introduce more mechs that can carry ECM, though this would likely create more problems than it would solve... I mean a 6ML Jenner with ECM would be a nightmare, and I remember when ECM was first announced as available to Jenners and EVERYONE had a panic attack...

[BigJim]

Protection, on 02 February 2013 - 11:56 AM, said:

Basically, the light position was previously one of the highest skill and most fun parts of the game. Now it has become the most tedious, flattest skill, and least fun - to the point where hardly anyone wants to play light mechs anymore.

Yes, yes dear god yes.
I loved being a Jenner pilot, I appreciated the skills of those who beat me, and loved the fact that you could always improve, that no matter how good you were, the role still had room to be filled with any more improvements you could come up with.
That no matter how good you thought you were, there was always someone who was just plain better than you, form whom you could learn tricks you never even thought of.


Ravens on the other hand are horrible, horrible nasty mechs that all perform exactly the same way, that engage in exactly the same way, and that guy who was 10x better than you? Now you just need one buddy spamming his streaks at the same time and it's all over in seconds - the room for skill is gone & it just feels cheap.

Sure, I play them at Comp level, but I hate it - there's nothing there to enjoy, it's just "hunt the crosshair" and hope that your beep-beep-lock comes before the other guy's beep-bee-lock.

Edited by BigJim, 03 February 2013 - 12:46 AM.

[bloodnor]

these is no balance issue with the reven 3L its the net code hit box and lag shield i have been using lights since long before the collision were taken out. i prefer the light mechs i personally feel they are more fun and suit my play style i have not just jumped on the raven band wagon.

there will always be people saying one mech is OP or unbalanced.

at one point it was the

Atlas
gausscat
streakcat
anything that carried any LRMs or SRMs at one point
then anything that carried ECM
stalker
ect
ect
ect

[Stimraug]

As a primarily Light mech pilot I agree with the OP totally. Streaks are the bread and butter, and if you don't have more than the other team's light mechs it's over. Lasers? Phah, 5 damage / ssrm2 to the center torso every few seconds wins over lasers easily.

[Mizore]

80Bit, on 02 February 2013 - 12:31 PM, said:

I am not a passenger on the SS NerfStreaksAndECM, but your post makes very clear, reasonable arguments that I can't find fault with.

The reason I don't agree with most nerf streak arguments is that streaks are really not good weapons for anything but light on light. When a Raven runs up to my HBK-4SP, my CDA-2A, or any heavier mech, I simply absorb their low DPS while blowing their face off with my high DPS. But you are totally right about the 3L vs Any Other Light situation.

I'm sorry to tell you, but for players from europe it's not as easy as you say... I also drive a Cicada 2A (6 MLas) and my chances to beat a skilled Raven 3L pilot are around 5% or less, because you just can't reliably hit the Raven.

Oh and... Raven low DPS and Cicada high DPS? You must be joking!
- Raven 3L (3MLas + 2 SSRMs) has a DPS of 6.61
- Cicada 2A (6MLas) has a DPS of 7.5

I wouldn't call that a big difference, but the Raven has SSRMs and so his real DPS should be much higher than that of the Cicada, because only a small amount of the lasers DPS really reaches a fast light mech with crappy hitboxes.

The problem when you want to tell us that it's really easy to kill all these op-builds is always, that you assume they are played by low skilled pilots... but when you play against evenly skilled pilots in op-builds, they beat the **** out of you!

Edited by Mizore, 03 February 2013 - 04:10 AM.

[MonkeyCheese]

fix the streaks and this will be a happy game

[nksharp]

Tennex, on 02 February 2013 - 10:25 PM, said:

this game had no competitive future if they don't respond to balance issues in a timely manner.

take a page out of league of legends book. you may not play it but nobody can deny its success. (though as good game developers, you should really play the good games. and borrow from their success)

If the devs don't start stepping up their game come community warfare I feel like this will be true. It doesn't seem like they want us to play competitively at all given the changes we keep getting to matchmaking.

[Sears]

In Paul's weapon balance thread, there is a mention of Streaks hitting both arms and legs as well as the torsos spreading out the damage. Not sure whether that is still on the cards or not, but I quite liked it as then it makes the srm 2 a bit more of an option. SSRM2 = guaranteed hit but damage spread or SRM2 = manual aim for placing shots with a chance of missing.

It would nerf the streaks abilities against larger mechs, would still be effective against lights albeit more salvos would be required to take down a light mech.