149 replies to this topic

[nksharp]

SSRM cat doesn't come with ecm though, a 3l raven most certainly does.

[Mr Mantis]

It is sad that the raven can do just as much if not more damage during a game than an assault or heavy mech. Lights should be scouts and support not our main brawlers.

Now that they changed the way that spotting bonus works, and with ecm, it is much too hard to get spotting assists.

[Gammanoob]

nksharp, on 02 February 2013 - 06:38 PM, said:

SSRM cat doesn't come with ecm though, a 3l raven most certainly does.

Yes...that wasn't the point I was trying to make however.

I just find it funny when people complain when one "flavor of the month mech" is replaced by another.

Edited by Gammanoob, 02 February 2013 - 06:47 PM.

[MWHawke]

I have just seen a CCD without ECM get 5 kills regularly in a match.

[Window]

MWHawke, on 02 February 2013 - 06:51 PM, said:

I have just seen a CCD without ECM get 5 kills regularly in a match.

Please read the qualifier in this post:

COMPETITIVE PLAY

not pug matches.

[MWHawke]

Window, on 02 February 2013 - 06:53 PM, said:

Please read the qualifier in this post:

COMPETITIVE PLAY

not pug matches.

Right. And the reason for not seeing CCDs do that, is because of posts like this which talk so highly about Ravens, which makes everyone jump on the Raven bandwagon. I'm thinking that 5 kills average per game would be good for COMPETITIVE PLAY. No? Oh ok, sorry then I guess 5 kills average is not good for COMPETITIVE PLAY.

[Writhenn]

MWHawke, on 02 February 2013 - 06:56 PM, said:

Right. And the reason for not seeing CCDs do that, is because of posts like this which talk so highly about Ravens, which makes everyone jump on the Raven bandwagon. I'm thinking that 5 kills average per game would be good for COMPETITIVE PLAY. No? Oh ok, sorry then I guess 5 kills average is not good for COMPETITIVE PLAY.

Not very bright are you?

[Corvus Antaka]

Very good post.

It especially showcases how the Commando 2D as well is simply an inferior light due to SSRMS these days.

having good jumpjets that create real mobility for those equipped, and fixing ssrms to not be gaurenteed hitters would both be good to begin to help address this, but much comes back to ECM.

imho SSRMS are the most significant balance issue right now.

[theDashRendar]

Protection, on 02 February 2013 - 11:56 AM, said:

• streaks. . . benefit from half lock on time with Artemis IV (at no tonnage cost)

Is this real?

[Tempered]

Original post has the situation described perfectly.

The best way to fix the current situation, imho, is to make streaks more skill based. I've described how to do this in numerous threads, so I won't repeat it here. Others have given their ideas in this area as well.

[Trev Firestorm]

yeah this streaks+artemis thing is confusing me, its not supposed to work for streaks, did they mess up and it is applying its bonus?

[Window]

MWHawke, on 02 February 2013 - 06:56 PM, said:

Right. And the reason for not seeing CCDs do that, is because of posts like this which talk so highly about Ravens, which makes everyone jump on the Raven bandwagon. I'm thinking that 5 kills average per game would be good for COMPETITIVE PLAY. No? Oh ok, sorry then I guess 5 kills average is not good for COMPETITIVE PLAY.

Your comprehension is lacking, this whole post is about competitive play ONLY.
So unless you have something to contribute regarding the COMPETITIVE gameplay in MWO then please leave it at the door.

Talking about PUG play has nothing to do with what is being discussed here.

[Wolf Clearwater]

The problem isn't the just Raven (which is better than the commando) but the broken balance. I am sure it will get fixed in someway, but right for me it is ECM + SRM6. This thread has nailed it, streaks need more skill.....how, I am not sure, but I believe there will eventually be a good fix. In the meantime, I just grit my teeth and hang on.

Edited by Wolf87535, 02 February 2013 - 08:19 PM.

[Kobold]

OP wrote a lot of words that just boil down to "net code sucks, streaks too good."

[Khobai]

Quote

OP wrote a lot of words that just boil down to "net code sucks, streaks too good."

hes not wrong though lol.

[Nahuris]

The funny thing is, when I swapped my 3 streaks for 3 SRM4's on my ECM Commando, my damage and abilities went way up. For one thing, enemy ECM now meant nothing.... as I didn't need to lock, and did more damage.

The Raven has those weird hit boxes... that's part of the issue. Another is the small maps..... and finally, the simple fact is, not everyone is as good a shot as they think they are.

i hadn't heard of the Artemis + Streak thing yet..... I'd like that confirmed, if possible.
Back to the OP - I have to agree that the only light I am seeing with ANY regularity is is the 3L.... However, I believe that, with the code fixes reducing the lagshield that some lights had (how I wish I could have experienced it just once..... ), that if they fix the hit boxes on the 3L, that we can see some improvements. Another thing that might help is the working with the ECM some.... right now, it is entirely too effective, and will become more so when the Clans start to show. How many clan mechs, and variants, are missile based? The Streak 4 and 6 are kind of heavy on the original 16 omnis......

Nahuris

[Kobold]

Nahuris, on 02 February 2013 - 09:07 PM, said:

How many clan mechs, and variants, are missile based? The Streak 4 and 6 are kind of heavy on the original 16 omnis......

Clanners do have non-streak SRMs though, and they show up on a number of mechs. They are certainly less common than streaks, but not rare.

Off the top of my head, the Gargoyle Prime and Gargoyle A both have standard SRMs. The Vulture A has standard SRMs (compared to Streaks on the Vulture . Though not an original, the Koshi B has standard SRMs. Stormcrow D and Hellbringer B also sport normal SRMs.

Of those, the Vulture A would me the one you're most likely to see in its base form on an MWO battlefield, though I'd drop the AC5 to add more heat sinks, if I could get them to fit, personally.

[Az0r]

This thread seems kind of stupid. There's always going to be a "best" mech for a role. That's the entire point of min/maxing. Also the skill cap is still there, it's just the skill floor that's now gone.

[Kreisel]

I'm a Raven pilot... it was my favorite mech in MW4, and and electronic/information warfare seems like a great dynamic to me... that said... I feel like I'm cheating when I pilot my 3L... my design is a little different than the cookie cutter Raven: Keep Bap, Tag, and SRM6+artemis, 1 SSRM2 in the shoulder. Mean to spot for LRM and to ambush larger mechs rather than dual other lights (my comp lags too much to aim well enough for that)... I just feel wrong about how strong ECM is... I WANTED Ecm, I WANT ECM.... but I want an ECM that is ON PAR with BAP, TAG, NARC, AMS, Artemis... not dominating everything.

I really would like to see a buff to AMS, make it more effective against SRM/Streaks and Boats... right now it encourages boating because you can just overcome it by shooting lots of missiles at once, while a single LRM 5 is basically pointless because it will shoot down the whole thing. ECM is better at stopping Streaks/LRM than AMS, and that's part of the problem.

The POINT of streaks is they don't miss, their purpose is to be good against light fast moving, hard to hit targets... we shouldn't take that away from them... that is their nich, it's why your supposed to take them: to have a tool to help you against smaller mechs by sacrificing the ability to do greater damage to larger mechs... that's a sort of meta-balance and it's a dynamic choice in how you build your mech. What the lights need in return is a tool to help them deal with this weapon that ALL of them can choose to equip, but that they give up something else in return for that protection against missiles (and not immunity, just protection) this should be AMS, NOT ECM. It's AMS only job, everything can mount it...

I want to have to consider putting AMS on my ECM Raven if I'm thinking about missiles. I want it to be a choice between stealth or missile defense and to have reasons for some people to run both. currently there is no reasons to even think about it.

The netcode fix helps a lot in giving other weapons a chance against lights but it's only a first step.

Adding collisions back in the game is going to help a lot, and it's coming... lights will have to lay off the throttle some to avoid crashing into things and making themselves a target, which will make it easier to hit them with other weapons, and I remember the days of collisions and how it was very realistic to do a lot of damage to lights with ballistics and lasers if they made a mistake and got knocked down. How it made them have to pilot in ways that we're less predictable so you couldn't cut them off to trip them.

The harshness of the Jump Jet nerf went a long way in making the 3L dominant as well. Didn't the dev's say they we're going to do something to help them get off the ground faster at-least, and that they agreed JJ we're too weak in current form?

Machineguns are terrible... and since anything heavyer is pretty extreme to mount on a ballistic slot of a light mech it hurts the Spider and Raven 4x (which are both also hurt by how weak JJ are). I'll be watching for the buff to JJ and machineguns, I want to try out the 4x again and not feel like I have to run a Gauss riffle/AC20 'joke build' to be successful.

Edited by Kreisel, 02 February 2013 - 10:10 PM.

[Dukarriope]

I agree quite so. I am utterly lethal in my RVN-3L (and more so than the average 3L pilot, even), but I find it extremely boring to pilot in practice.