37 replies to this topic

[Nahuris]

This comes from my girlfriend who likes to watch over my shoulder.....

I am a pug player -- I am a team player -- depends on the mood I am in at the time, and how much time I might have. Sometimes I just want to practice, so I pug.. or I only have time for one drop....ETC.
Other times, I have some time to dedicate to my team, and do so.....

From what I have seen... and this includes times I have friendly fired by accident..... you get paid for damage done, even damage to your own team.
The only penalty for team killing is exp.
You can not get an exp score of less than zero.
So, there is absolutely no incentive for someone who has all the exp for their current mech, to avoid shooting team mates.... actually, they get paid for it.

As a pug, I have seen so many games of "Scatter at the start" so that you can get away from team killers..... And as a team player, we work hard to avoid that.

This might be part of the reason why there is a pug vs. premade mindset..... because the goals are severely different.... the premade wants to win as a team, while only some pugs are even on that same sheet of music..... and there are pugs that are out to do damage, no matter who to...... which is anathema to a pre-made team.

Every time I see a pug brag about getting 1k or more damage a game, I have to wonder how much of that started as friendly armor......

Now, I don't have a whole lot of solution, but to report TK'ers.... but what about people that do just enough damage to hurt you, but don't actually kill you..... there is no penalty in the game currently... at least, as far as I can tell.

Couple this with all the posts of "how the 4-man on our side shot their own teammates" ---- which always tends to have someone pop up supporting it ---- and is it any wonder that pugs are leary or distrustful of teamers?

Maybe this is an area we can explore, and work to fix some of the community issues..... otherwise, this is an extremely hostile environment for new players.....
And as an anecdote, I played a TT battletech game last night with 9 new players..... when I suggested MWO, they responded that they had already been on the forum, and with all this whining, screaming, and complaining.. they had already decided that the game was not worth their time.......

Every new player we lose, especially before they even try the game, is a serious loss....
Face it, giant robot combat is not everyone's thing... our player pool is small to begin with. Maybe we should all stop taking dumps in the pool, and try for some new swimmers.

Nahuris

[w0rm]

Nahuris, on 02 February 2013 - 02:51 PM, said:

From what I have seen... and this includes times I have friendly fired by accident..... you get paid for damage done, even damage to your own team.

Can someone confirm this?

[Little Nemo]

There is no issue with premade vs pugs. I can get in a team with 3 of my friends, not say a word and clean house. Though talking is a large factor, it's not like a group of four sits down and plans out the mechs they will be taking thinking it will make a difference.

This argument is a scapegoat for bad players like ECM is, and streaks were.

[Little Nemo]

w0rm, on 02 February 2013 - 02:52 PM, said:

Can someone confirm this?

And it IS confirmed that friendly damage isn't tallied.

[Nahuris]

Skinny Pete, on 02 February 2013 - 02:53 PM, said:

There is no issue with premade vs pugs. I can get in a team with 3 of my friends, not say a word and clean house. Though talking is a large factor, it's not like a group of four sits down and plans out the mechs they will be taking thinking it will make a difference.

This argument is a scapegoat for bad players like ECM is, and streaks were.

Not necessarily ---- there are a couple dozen posts so far where pugs want to ban teams....etc.
Read some ---- in almost every one, someone posts where a 4-man fired on their own team.

It's a toxic environment..... because other people then assume that ANY friendly fire must be pre-mades team shooting.
Honestly, most of my friendly fire has been lag between the mouse button, and the shot actually going off.... or someone stepping into missiles while they were travelling to the target...... and as far as I can tell on my screen, I got paid.

If I have all my exp for my current mech, why not use this way of getting free cash?
How is it any different than logging 3 trials into matches, escaping out, and then running a 4th mech to get the loss cash and exp for those trials? My roommate did that briefly (and got reported).

Nahuris

[Serapth]

Skinny Pete, on 02 February 2013 - 02:53 PM, said:

There is no issue with premade vs pugs. I can get in a team with 3 of my friends, not say a word and clean house. Though talking is a large factor, it's not like a group of four sits down and plans out the mechs they will be taking thinking it will make a difference.

This argument is a scapegoat for bad players like ECM is, and streaks were.

Self defeating argument is self defeating.

Being able to pick two of your teammates in a world without ELO is a massive advantage.. It a ain't your skill.

[StringyQuark]

Are you sure you get damage done for friendly fire? It has been a while since I tested damage done for shooting a friendly, but last time i did i got none. I did get damage for shooting DCed enemy mechs, just no component or kill xp.

last time i tested this was on a river city game where all of the teams when opposite directions and it was a cap rush by both teams, no shots fired so i shot a team mate (with permission) in the arm a couple times with a medium laser, still had 0 damage on end of round summary.

[Nahuris]

Skinny Pete, on 02 February 2013 - 02:56 PM, said:

And it IS confirmed that friendly damage isn't tallied.

When I multiply out the cash per damage point, I get the same amount per point, whether I do friendly damage or not..... so is it a glitch that I have been paid for friendly fire?

Nahuris

[Little Nemo]

Serapth, on 02 February 2013 - 02:58 PM, said:

Self defeating argument is self defeating.

Being able to pick two of your teammates in a world without ELO is a massive advantage.. It a ain't your skill.

Ever use the social tab?

[Joseph Mallan]

w0rm, on 02 February 2013 - 02:52 PM, said:

Can someone confirm this?

I can confirm he is wrong about the no Negative Exp. I have seen two TKers have Negative XP losses. -25 and -50 at the end of the match.

[Little Nemo]

StringyQuark, on 02 February 2013 - 03:00 PM, said:

Are you sure you get damage done for friendly fire? It has been a while since I tested damage done for shooting a friendly, but last time i did i got none. I did get damage for shooting DCed enemy mechs, just no component or kill xp.

last time i tested this was on a river city game where all of the teams when opposite directions and it was a cap rush by both teams, no shots fired so i shot a team mate (with permission) in the arm a couple times with a medium laser, still had 0 damage on end of round summary.

I am positive you don't get any reward for friendly fire.

[Chavette]

Shoot me at the start for real and I'll get you banned so fast you won't be buying anything with your extra c-bills.

[Nahuris]

StringyQuark, on 02 February 2013 - 03:00 PM, said:

Are you sure you get damage done for friendly fire? It has been a while since I tested damage done for shooting a friendly, but last time i did i got none. I did get damage for shooting DCed enemy mechs, just no component or kill xp.

last time i tested this was on a river city game where all of the teams when opposite directions and it was a cap rush by both teams, no shots fired so i shot a team mate (with permission) in the arm a couple times with a medium laser, still had 0 damage on end of round summary.

It might be patched... as it has been at least a few weeks since I did friendly fire..... but last time I did the math, I did get paid.
However, with all the threads that claim it isn't the premade, it's whether you can do 400 damage or more that rolls..... the damage itself would still be a factor.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm looking for root cause for the animosity. Because, honestly, it's a stupid divide. So, 4 of you are talking about some girl's backside while playing.... it's not like TS helps you aim..... it just helps with some information. Players with average intelligence can work out the same tactics with a little experience, and I have been in games where it has happened......

Nahuris

[Little Nemo]

Chavette, on 02 February 2013 - 03:03 PM, said:

Shoot me at the start for real and I'll get you banned so fast you won't be buying anything with your extra c-bills.

You don't get extra c-bills, and how is this statement relevant.?

[Nahuris]

I have never seen negative exp ---- if there is, that's great, but can it unspend any spent exp?
The reason is that I am seeing so much more friendly fire at the beginning of matches ---- primarily when I pug, and a lot of threads that claim it's premades shooting puggers.......

Regardless of how, why, or rewards..... wouldn't it be a good idea to try and fix the breach?

I am so sick of seeing the "ban the premades, and the "pugs need to learn their place" threads..... there are multiple such threads on each page, for approximately 20 pages of threads.

Is there a reason? I am exploring possibilities..... and if there are reasons, are they exploits that can be fixed?

Nahuris

Like I said, it might be patched... i haven't done friendly fire in a while..... I am working on finding the base issues for the animosity.

Cure those, and the rest should die down........

Nahuris

[Little Nemo]

Nahuris, on 02 February 2013 - 03:10 PM, said:

I have never seen negative exp ---- if there is, that's great, but can it unspend any spent exp?
The reason is that I am seeing so much more friendly fire at the beginning of matches ---- primarily when I pug, and a lot of threads that claim it's premades shooting puggers.......

Regardless of how, why, or rewards..... wouldn't it be a good idea to try and fix the breach?

I am so sick of seeing the "ban the premades, and the "pugs need to learn their place" threads..... there are multiple such threads on each page, for approximately 20 pages of threads.

Is there a reason? I am exploring possibilities..... and if there are reasons, are they exploits that can be fixed?

Nahuris

Like I said, it might be patched... i haven't done friendly fire in a while..... I am working on finding the base issues for the animosity.

Cure those, and the rest should die down........

Nahuris

there are no exploits other than trying to sync with another four man. NGNG hosts a podcast where they use TEAMSPEAK to communicate while playing with PGI

People need to get over it and understand that if you fight alone, you're weaker than people that have social skills. On that note, if you choose to drop as a lone wolf, that is the choice you make and need to suck it up.

Mechwarrior is a team game.

[Team Leader]

w0rm, on 02 February 2013 - 02:52 PM, said:

Can someone confirm this?

Don't worry I'm on it!

*legs 5 teammates at start of match*
"Don't worry guys it's for beta!"

[Nahuris]

Skinny Pete, on 02 February 2013 - 03:13 PM, said:

there are no exploits other than trying to sync with another four man. NGNG hosts a podcast where they use TEAMSPEAK to communicate while playing with PGI

People need to get over it and understand that if you fight alone, you're weaker than people that have social skills. On that note, if you choose to drop as a lone wolf, that is the choice you make and need to suck it up.

Mechwarrior is a team game.

Which is why I am a part of the Browncoats and Independents.....

But new players ARE going to be pugs..... can't join a team until you start playing the game to find people to team with.
And right now, the only way to team is 3rd party software.... or just joining a team invite, and not having a clue as to what your friendlies are bringing to the field..... which still leaves you typing comms if you don't use 3rd party software.

If we are going to go that route, then we need a STICKY on every category of the forum that states clearly "YOU CANNOT PLAY THIS GAME WITHOUT TS3's 3RD PARTY SOFTWARE"

Because, as a player stuck on the "join a team or me killz you" mantra...... all you're really saying is "get 3rd party software, and play like me, or you suck"

A game should not require 3rd party software to be considered a "good player" --- and it's not about social skills. I have social skills, or I wouldn't be able to manage the number of gaming groups I am part of in real life, as well as being a guild leader in another online game.

It's more about tolerance for our fellow players, and helping them transition to this game ... there is NO new player tutorial, and there is a steep learning curve.... during which time, they get stomped by people using 3rd party software, that they are not even told about, until after said stomping.

You may find this funny..... but the total number of Battletech and previous MW players I know that have not only quit this game, but also are working to discourage other players from joining, as now topped 60.
That means, out of a group of 61 possible players, who already like and support the IP of this game, we have netted ONE.

That's a crappy ratio.......

Nahuris

Edited by Nahuris, 02 February 2013 - 03:30 PM.

[Wildstreak]

Nahuris, on 02 February 2013 - 02:51 PM, said:

From what I have seen... and this includes times I have friendly fired by accident..... you get paid for damage done, even damage to your own team.

Incorrect, I posted elsewhere I accidentally TK'd someone who came from behind cover and drifted into my sights while firing, when the game ended, I not only got penalized in XP, I also lost C-Bills (don't remember how much).

[Little Nemo]

http://mwomercs.com/...e-chat-servers/

^
That thread is stckied BTW.

Edited by Skinny Pete, 02 February 2013 - 04:03 PM.