139 replies to this topic

[Zakie Chan]

SRM cats have higher alpha than an Atlas... This is a fun game

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

Jonathan Paine, on 02 February 2013 - 11:21 PM, said:

While people debate whether the Stalker or the Atlas is the tougher assault, few argue that an Awesome is as tough as either of them (given pilots of EQUAL skill).

Why not reclassify the Awesome as a Heavy? Next time you drop into a match and see three Awesomes on your side, you could hope that they are matched up by lets say.... Dragons.

Thoughts?

No.. Its done by weight specification.

Khan DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa

[Tremendous Upside]

FerretGR, on 03 February 2013 - 03:39 PM, said:

Because while the Awesome may have, overall, some pros and cons, one of the big problems folks keep raising is that when you take and Awesome, the other team is likely getting an Atlas. Changing how the matchmaker makes matches would help this objection against the Awesome. IMHO, the rest of the complaints about the Awesome boil down to pros vs. cons and are a matter of personal taste.

And when you take a commando, the other team may get a jenner/raven. Or if you take a cicada, they may get a hunchback... It's one of the biggest "meh" arguments there is. So long as the matchmaker is working across all classes the same way, it really shouldn't matter. If you're going to go strictly off tonnage to match teams, that'll be even more unbalanced. You'll end up with some teams built at both extremes - with a mix of assaults and lights, and they'd be facing teams composed entirely of mediums and heavies at times. With no heavy mechs having ECM and only the cicada having it in the medium class, I'm pretty sure that'd be a bigger sore point for most than whether someone gave the team a catapult/cataphract or an atlas/stalker because they chose the lightest chassis in those weight classes...

[Craftyman]

Taizan, on 03 February 2013 - 05:32 PM, said:

(Excluding actually moving - in comparison to AWS's STKs are like a tower moved by an army of snails)

They both have the same top speed with top rated engines. Any perceived difference in turn speed is subjective, I highly doubt they have any difference in base turn speed. The only difference is your perception of speed/agility. Try again.

[Genzoh Dyson]

Sorry but I've gone toe to toe with Atlas and Stalkers in my AWS-8R and won. It isn't the mech that has issues, it's the pilots that don't know how to use them.

[Taizan]

Craftyman, on 03 February 2013 - 06:15 PM, said:

They both have the same top speed with top rated engines. Any perceived difference in turn speed is subjective, I highly doubt they have any difference in base turn speed. The only difference is your perception of speed/agility. Try again.

Speed on spreadsheets is also a point of perception. Rarely do I see a Stalker going faster than 60 kph. Even then it will never do 80+.

[BerryChunks]

Craftyman, on 03 February 2013 - 05:29 PM, said:

the problem is the Awesome gets matched up with the flat out better mechs on the enemy team, the atlas and the stalker. The awesome cannot compete in either of the roles that the Stalker or Atlas currently fulfill.

The Stalker is a better long range "2nd line" support mech with it's higher situated hardpoints for PPC sniping (meaning a less exposed mech over hills) and extra tonnage/hardpoints for LRM boating.

The Atlas is a better brawler with it's huge health pool, 68pt barn door shield arms and its varied and well distributed armament. It also doesn't go any slower than an average Awesome.

The only decent Awesome is the 9M which can go over 64.8 km/h. Once/if we get tonnage limits the Awesome could be quite awesome because it gives your team a tonnage advantage.




No you will not, the awesome cannot do anything a stalker can't do better at range.

and its pretty ****** and tarded that you have to PAY for the 9M in order to have access to that huge range of engine.

Genzoh Dyson, on 03 February 2013 - 06:25 PM, said:

Sorry but I've gone toe to toe with Atlas and Stalkers in my AWS-8R and won. It isn't the mech that has issues, it's the pilots that don't know how to use them.

hey, I've done that too. But you have to work harder for it. Bigger CT to shoot at, Less armor, Energy weapons only in a very demanding heat version of BT, etc etc. Many times it's just some blind luck that you happen to have PPCs to counter their AC/20 atlas, so you win by that, provided you keep them at a distance.

There was another thread floating around talking about scale being off, I believe it's probably off in that regard too. 300-400m away mechs are so tiny and difficult to hit. The whole game screams "Run up and BRAWL!".

[Natasha Kerensky]

Jonathan Paine, on 02 February 2013 - 11:21 PM, said:

While people debate whether the Stalker or the Atlas is the tougher assault, few argue that an Awesome is as tough as either of them (given pilots of EQUAL skill).

Why not reclassify the Awesome as a Heavy? Next time you drop into a match and see three Awesomes on your side, you could hope that they are matched up by lets say.... Dragons.

Thoughts?

You can't just reclassify mechs just because they suck. There are plenty of sucky assault mechs. Assault mechs are determined by weight, that is all, not how good they are.

[Craftyman]

Taizan, on 03 February 2013 - 06:26 PM, said:

Speed on spreadsheets is also a point of perception. Rarely do I see a Stalker going faster than 60 kph. Even then it will never do 80+.

First of all if you look at my post before i addressed that yes the 9M has something the other assaults don't. The 9M is the only decent awesome. I'm not arguing against that. However, is a slightly faster speed worth all of the downsides? No it absolutely is not.
The 9M has:

• hill firing issues
  
• massive frontal profile
  
• Less available firepower than a stalker or atlas
  
• less armor than a stalker and atlas.
  
• larger CT hitbox than stalker and atlas
  
• Less available tonnage than Stalker and atlas.
  
• Less spread out hardpoints
  
• XL engine gives you an even larger "core" hitbox

The slight speed advantage (in a role where you won't really need to be all that maneuverable anyway) is completely negated.



Also stop exaggerating. You will not be doing "80+" with backup weapons on a 3 PPC 9M build. Best you can hope for is around 75-78 with full heatsinks.

Edited by Craftyman, 03 February 2013 - 07:45 PM.

[BerryChunks]

I think your "core hitbox via XL" is flawed. If people are hitting your CT, they're going to CT core you anyway. If they're hitting a ST, then XL engines would matter, but since CT is so easy to hit that is almost immaterial. It's rare for me to die from damage bleed through other than CT even when torso rolling.

you might even say this unfortunate and unique property of the Awesome allows you to use XL engines in an assault mech.

Edited by BerryChunks, 03 February 2013 - 07:55 PM.

[BerryChunks]

Zakie Chan, on 03 February 2013 - 05:33 PM, said:

SRM cats have higher alpha than an Atlas... This is a fun game

NEDM, or not even good philosoraptor.

[Trauglodyte]

He is right, though, in the sense that if you're using your "shield arm" to absorb damage, some of that incoming fire will be pounding your side torso. At that point, the XL engine is a lot more vulnerable than if you were running a standard engine. Regardless, though, you should be able to get out of harm's way in the 9M so that it doesn't become an issue. At least I think that to be the case as I haven't yet acquired that variant.

[FerretGR]

Banky, on 03 February 2013 - 06:03 PM, said:

And when you take a commando, the other team may get a jenner/raven. Or if you take a cicada, they may get a hunchback... It's one of the biggest "meh" arguments there is.

It's not meh if you think those mechs are undervalued based on the current matchmaker alone or if you'd like to see more variety on the battlefield.

Banky, on 03 February 2013 - 06:03 PM, said:

So long as the matchmaker is working across all classes the same way, it really shouldn't matter.

So, as long as there are mechs in all weight classes being impacted by overly wide classifications being used by the matchmaker, it's okay? Funny logic.

Banky, on 03 February 2013 - 06:03 PM, said:

If you're going to go strictly off tonnage to match teams, that'll be even more unbalanced. You'll end up with some teams built at both extremes - with a mix of assaults and lights, and they'd be facing teams composed entirely of mediums and heavies at times.

Well, it's certainly a good thing that's not the matchmaker change I proposed in this thread.

[Brilig]

As long as you play fire support the Awesome is not bad. If it is going to compete as a short range assault (Tank) I'd say it needs a bigger engine, and at least 2 more tons of armor between the front and back torso sections.

[WVAnonymous]

Adrienne Vorton, on 03 February 2013 - 04:14 AM, said:

*coughs* mechs arent aircooled... and if they were,you´d better stay off of caustic valley

You only have three options: conduction, convection, and radiation. All those tiny fins in your liquid cooled "radiator" at the front of your car mostly work by convection to the air outside. Aircooled for cars refers to the lack of internal liquids for cooling to cycle through an additional external radiator.

[Snowhawk]

A cataphract can use up to 88 armor points for his center torso, so tight 90 points. And now have a look at the awesome.... 100 armor points for the "overdesigned" center torso. I prefer a cataphract...

[DegeneratePervert]

Really, the only thing an Awesome needs right now is maybe some more armor available on the front torso, since i've never been cored so fast in my life when I'm piloting my 9M.

If you're in an Awesome, mount PPCs and LRMs, and stay at the back. I use my 9M with the biggest XL I can mount, 3x PPC, 3x Medium Laser, and tons of heatsinks. It's pretty good at sniping, since I can put down more PPC shots in succession than most mechs. Stalkers and Atlas' annihilate me, though.

[CrackyOxide]

This is why every mech needs it's own unique set of efficiencies. So that each mech has something it can contribute.

[Elkarlo]

@DegeneratePervert

Did you take some Armor from the Back and putt it at the Front?

The Back Armor of an Awesome is more solid then the Backarmor of an Atlas....

Edited by Elkarlo, 04 February 2013 - 12:10 AM.

[xRatas]

Zakie Chan, on 03 February 2013 - 05:33 PM, said:

SRM cats have higher alpha than an Atlas... This is a fun game

Which seems more than reasonable, when we remember all classes are supposed to be equally good.

It sometimes makes me wonder, if everyone just wants the Atlas to be the no-brainer choice, surviving everything and oneshotting anything but another Atlas... It really doesn't mean that best armored mech should be able to deal most damage.

And about Awesome:
I do quite well in my AWS-8Q, and although I too would say anything Awesome can do, Stalker most likely does it better(can exclude AWS-9M though). But it is actually the traditional role of Awesome in tabletop too, to provide PPC fire from good firing position. No matter what the lore says, that's how it is usually best used. You do not want to go near enemies with PPC loadout, as you can not effectively use them if you let enemy close near you. Slow speed also makes it near impossible to shake off anything even if you win the initiative.

So, use slower variants of Awesome as a solid firesupport platform from rear lines, and you will do well. PPCs are good weapons already, and most Awesomes can easily load at least 3-4 of them. I'd recommend 4 though, as it enables you to try headshots with single salvo (your chances go up, as your target can not react and cover their head if you hit), and can blow off a leg from light mech with one hit too.

I use my Awesome from a position where solid cover is nearby, and deal 2 volleys of fire before moving into cover to cool down. Might take the risk of damage, and fire third volley too, if I'm quite sure of the kill (12 PPC hits generally make things go POP). Otherwise shutdown in the open should be avoided ofcourse.

While AWS might not be the best assault in the game right now, It certainly has it's place and it is the best looking of all Assaults so far. So easy choice for me... It is also excellent in killing those stupid brawler heavies and assaults long before they can get close enough to deal any damage. Oh how many times I've seen a crazy barrage of green rays and funny fireworks of SRM exploding in the midair, when I bombard someone from 500m away. Won't happen in 8-mans ofcourse, but worth the laugh every time in PUGs.

Key in driving Awesome (like all assaults) is the situation awareness and positioning. You don't have speed to beat it, when things start to go FUBAR. So carefully inspect what your team is doing, take advantage of that, and your Awesome feels like one soon enough.

And last, use PPC instead of lasers... Bolts can not be traced back as easily as continuous beams of light. If you were not shown on enemy's HUD, chances are you get to move in cover before he can fire back. Wait for complete cooldown in cover, and chances are those more ADHD people are already targetting someone else, and you can happily fire volley or 2 safely.

Edited by xRatas, 04 February 2013 - 12:50 AM.