173 replies to this topic

[Lorcan Lladd]

Kunae, on 04 February 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

[redacted]

Everyone needs to get off of this bigotry and hate against people who choose to play with their friends. Learn to play better, and organize your side. Your jealously only breeds hatred and resentment. And those emotions lead people to do foolish and stupid things, as has been evidenced in this thread, and so many others before it.

[RussianWolf]

Joseph Mallan, on 04 February 2013 - 10:07 AM, said:

It depends on how you intend to address it. Quitting cause you think you are facing a "superior" enemy, is as much a problem as AFK farmers.

I don't intend to address it. But it would be data that would guide the Devs.

If this is supposed to be a "team based game" and its only a few "quiters". Then nothing would be done I'd imagine.

If no solo is willing to play against the pre-made (numbers won't be 100% as people like me will drop regardless), then the Devs need to find a solution. Especially if the number of Solos DCing is a large enough number.

There is no reason for the game not to have a place for Solos, its just finding out where that place is. Solos spend money too you know,

Not having the data, you don't know if a problem exist or not. I'm not for sticking my head in the sand.

[Natasha Kerensky]

Cordy Ceps, on 04 February 2013 - 08:05 AM, said:

Um ehrlich zu sein, ich finde WoT komplexer als MWO im Moment. Ich denke, ich kann mir diese Meinung erlauben, da ich zu meiner aktiven Zeit zu den oberen 5% der WoT EU servers gehört habe. Was MWO simpel macht, sind die Maps. Die Taktiken sind sehr eingeschränkt, Kampfentfernungen sind in 90% der fälle <200m. In Wot, ist es eine Kunst zur richtigen Zeit am richtigen Ort zu sein. In MWO, wo ein Überschwerer so schnell rennt wie ein t-50-2 fährt, die maps aber kleiner sind, geht diese Komplexität verloren. Die Positionswahl beschränkt sich im großen auf "Ridge or tunnel".

Dennoch finde ich, dass beide Spiele sehr gut verglichen werden können, und dass WoT sehr viele gute und innovative Ansätze ins FTP-Shooter-Genre gebracht hat, von denen MWO profitieren kann.
Versteh mich nicht falsch, ich will kein zweites WOT, sonst würde ich WoT spielen.
Aber Wot hat imao mittlerweile eine sehr gute Balance erreicht, sowohl für solo als auch für teamspieler. Insofern ist es nicht verwunderlich, dass ich in diese Richtung schaue.

In english:

To be honest, i think WoT is more complex then MWO atm. I can do this comparison because in my active time, ive been among the top 5% of the european WoT server. What makes MWO simple are the Maps. The Tactics are limited, fighting ranges are in 90% of all case <200m. In WoT its an Art to be in the right place at the right time. In MWO, where an assault runs as fast as a T-50-2 can drive and the maps are smaller, this comlexity gets lost. More often then not, positionong gets reduced to "ridge or tunnel".

Nevertheless, i find WoT and MWO very comparable and that WoT has brought many good and innovative solutions into the FTP-shooter-genre. MWO can profit heavily from them.
Dont get me wrong, I dont want a second WoT, or id be playing WoT right now.
BUT imao, WoT has reached a very good balancing, for solo and for teamplayers, so its only natural for me to look in their direction for MWO-problem solutions.

And how long has WoT been out? I've played WoT. In the beginning, it was pure crap. People QQing about the same stuff as people are doing here. It wmight be better now but that is still a pay-to-win game. Gold ammo? Sky high repair cost in Tiers 8+?

[Joseph Mallan]

a few points I see differently and some I don't Elandyll,

Civility I can muster for everyone.

baby, life, family I am on the fence about, i don't have a baby any more, My son is autistic but older, my wife is somewhat understanding. however if that were different, I don't know if I would want this game to be made easier for me to play or not. I would think i would be of the same mind I am now and would either accept my limitations to being good at the game or i would just not play because the game should not be to easy for masses.

as a PUG I only played a couple hours a day cause I got bored. I play for hours as a lawman, cause the game IS funner when you are socializing.

YMMV.

[KuruptU4Fun]

Yokaiko, on 04 February 2013 - 10:13 AM, said:

The intergrated voice is going to be c3 so get over the whole untamed voice idea.

If that is the case then since C3 is built, MW:O is built, why are they not integrated yet? Or at least when is the stated time frame as to when you can open up MW and C3 will auto open and close in the background?

[Yokaiko]

KuruptU4Fun, on 04 February 2013 - 10:21 AM, said:

If that is the case then since C3 is built, MW:O is built, why are they not integrated yet? Or at least when is the stated time frame as to when you can open up MW and C3 will auto open and close in the background?

Don't ask me. I would have figured the backend work was relatively easy. Unless its a module in the CW architecture, then its going to be a wait.

I've said over and over the lack of a lobby is a killer.

[Joseph Mallan]

RussianWolf, on 04 February 2013 - 10:18 AM, said:

I don't intend to address it. But it would be data that would guide the Devs.

If this is supposed to be a "team based game" and its only a few "quiters". Then nothing would be done I'd imagine.

If no solo is willing to play against the pre-made (numbers won't be 100% as people like me will drop regardless), then the Devs need to find a solution. Especially if the number of Solos DCing is a large enough number.

There is no reason for the game not to have a place for Solos, its just finding out where that place is. Solos spend money too you know,

Not having the data, you don't know if a problem exist or not. I'm not for sticking my head in the sand.

A good perspective. This game is going to have more than just Premade teams though;
You Have house armies that will need filling out
Canon Merc units that will need personnel
These will have both premades and PUGs in them I see plenty Of PUGs sporting house emblems, so when CW arrives will those with house loyalties still be PUGs or House Regulars?

I'm a Lyran and a member of the Law. So if I'm not dropping with Murphy's I will be dropping with house Steiner (as a PUG).

i don't think the PUGs are looking at the Long game with their argument. But again that is my opinion.

BDU Havoc, on 04 February 2013 - 10:17 AM, said:

This is going to be the new IT meme!

[Cordy Ceps]

Natasha Kerensky, on 04 February 2013 - 10:19 AM, said:

And how long has WoT been out? I've played WoT. In the beginning, it was pure crap. People QQing about the same stuff as people are doing here. It wmight be better now but that is still a pay-to-win game. Gold ammo? Sky high repair cost in Tiers 8+?

Yeah, your opinion. Pay to win you say? Its pay to play high-tiers at most. What you do disregard is that you can absolutely own low to med tiers without paying a single cent. You played WoT in the beginning, your opinion is based on outdated information.

And another fact: people QQed about the same things - things got better.

Getting my point?

Edited by Cordy Ceps, 04 February 2013 - 10:35 AM.

[NKAc Street]

Pgi making the matchmaker drop according to player stats will solve a lot of the issues.

[RussianWolf]

Joseph Mallan, on 04 February 2013 - 10:31 AM, said:

A good perspective. This game is going to have more than just Premade teams though;
You Have house armies that will need filling out
Canon Merc units that will need personnel
These will have both premades and PUGs in them I see plenty Of PUGs sporting house emblems, so when CW arrives will those with house loyalties still be PUGs or House Regulars?

I'm a Lyran and a member of the Law. So if I'm not dropping with Murphy's I will be dropping with house Steiner (as a PUG).

i don't think the PUGs are looking at the Long game with their argument. But again that is my opinion.

I try to keep things simple, There are pre-made teams and solos. That's it. That's all there will ever be.

Now some of the Solos will join pre-mades, and some will group in game to be a short lived team. Some will be filler in PUGS.

But they are still pre-mades and solos regardless of factions, clans, merc corps, etc.

The metagame will put a veneer on them, but it won't change the basic dynamics.

What the Devs need to know for this game to be successful is how to bring in the most players and money. Like I said, if 99% of the player base is teams, then focus on teams and let the Solos fend for themselves. If its 99% solo, then they better focus on them. If its 50/50, then they better find ways to make both groups happy.

That's all on the Devs though. And they need data more than anything. And hate to say, this forum ain't gonna give it to them.

ummmmm..... LUNCH!!!

[FupDup]

Ilwrath, on 04 February 2013 - 06:38 AM, said:

They cannot do that because then we could all see just how happy the matchmaker is about putting 1-2 premades on one team and pure pubs on the other. People would alt+F4 all over the place.

This.

If there was to be an indicator of premades, it should only be displayed after the round has ended. This way, everybody on both teams will actually try to fight it out as hard as they can as opposed to ragequitting the instant they see that the matchmaker gods aren't on their side.

[Joseph Mallan]

RussianWolf, on 04 February 2013 - 10:50 AM, said:

I try to keep things simple, There are pre-made teams and solos. That's it. That's all there will ever be.

Now some of the Solos will join pre-mades, and some will group in game to be a short lived team. Some will be filler in PUGS.

But they are still pre-mades and solos regardless of factions, clans, merc corps, etc.

The metagame will put a veneer on them, but it won't change the basic dynamics.

What the Devs need to know for this game to be successful is how to bring in the most players and money. Like I said, if 99% of the player base is teams, then focus on teams and let the Solos fend for themselves. If its 99% solo, then they better focus on them. If its 50/50, then they better find ways to make both groups happy.

That's all on the Devs though. And they need data more than anything. And hate to say, this forum ain't gonna give it to them.

ummmmm..... LUNCH!!!

I would hope the "veneer" would also put a carrot in place that would convince folks that being premade is a benefit to game play and not something that should be refused/rejected. If the reason for silent play is because of no in game VOiP, That just seems silly to me. I got a friend to join Murphy's I asked if he had TS3 he said no but had a different program for a different MMO he played. So obviously third party Comms happen regularly in on line gaming.

[Ensaine]

@OP: your suggestion is most silly. You're saying to mark a pre-made so you pugs jump into your A-game?

Sorry. Bring your A-game to all matches. Stop packing a bowl, or eating munchies thinking you're up against other PUGS.

/fixed.

Edited by Ensaine, 04 February 2013 - 11:02 AM.

[MaddMaxx]

Pihb, on 04 February 2013 - 08:53 AM, said:

Oh no! Your easy kills wont be there anymore. You might have to fight people who shoot back. I understand if you are scared, it's natural.

Do you PUG? Are you one of those "easy Kills"? Do you shoot back? If your answers were Yes! No! Yes!

Then I fail to see what the hell your point is. I PUG and I can tell you, emphatically, that my answers are Yes, No, Yes and so when I PUG, I just assume everyone has the same mindset.

I had no idea that so many would or could answer with Yes! Yes! Not Really!

As such, I will try even harder and attempt to carry more Solo players during my next PUG match. I swear, I did not know that so many just don't care to really try, or care.

[RussianWolf]

Joseph Mallan, on 04 February 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

I would hope the "veneer" would also put a carrot in place that would convince folks that being premade is a benefit to game play and not something that should be refused/rejected. If the reason for silent play is because of no in game VOiP, That just seems silly to me. I got a friend to join Murphy's I asked if he had TS3 he said no but had a different program for a different MMO he played. So obviously third party Comms happen regularly in on line gaming.

If you are on TS3, and he is on something else, how do you communicate? Do they talk to each other (I ask as most makers make the systems proprietary so you have to buy theirs). And will TS3 and this other speak to the in game C3 that's supposedly coming.

All this gets to, you get a ML contract with the Lyrans to drop and defend a base. You need 12 players and you can only field 10 at the moment. So you are going to get two players that are solos (Lyrans affiliated, friendly mercs, or lone wolves) . How are you going to communicate with them? Right now it would be nearly impossible as there isn;t a way to coordinate before the match and if the voips don't talk to each other.........

As to the carrot for being in a premade.... what about my carrot for being the needed filler as a Lone Wolf? You need me, not the other way around. I don't risk my life cheaply.

Edited by RussianWolf, 04 February 2013 - 11:22 AM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Kunae, on 04 February 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

While we're at it, let's make all the Jews wear gold stars pinned to their clothes. Nothing wrong with that, just lets everyone else know who they are, and when they're around.

Everyone needs to get off of this bigotry and hate against people who choose to play with their friends. Learn to play better, and organize your side. Your jealously only breeds hatred and resentment. And those emotions lead people to do foolish and stupid things, as has been evidenced in this thread, and so many others before it.

Just so you know, I reported your post. As a Jew comparing anything that happens in this game to the holocaust is amazingly stupid.

You should take a break from the game and go get your priorities in real life in order if you are going to post crap like this.

I personally hope you never have to understand what it's like having relatives who have been through that.

Amazing.

Edited by Nicholas Carlyle, 04 February 2013 - 11:48 AM.

[chiXnhawk]

This is easily done. Let us add clan tags. Problem solved.

[Joseph Mallan]

RussianWolf, on 04 February 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

If you are on TS3, and he is on something else, how do you communicate? Do they talk to each other (I ask as most makers make the systems proprietary so you have to buy theirs). And will TS3 and this other speak to the in game C3 that's supposedly coming.

All this gets to, you get a ML contract with the Lyrans to drop and defend a base. You need 12 players and you can only field 10 at the moment. So you are going to get two players that are solos (Lyrans affiliated, friendly mercs, or lone wolves) . How are you going to communicate with them? Right now it would be nearly impossible as there isn;t a way to coordinate before the match and if the voips don't talk to each other.........

As to the carrot for being in a premade.... what about my carrot for being the needed filler as a Lone Wolf? You need me, not the other way around. I don't risk my life cheaply.

Got him to load TS3 Of course... after typing to him from my friends list chat. Once C3 is properly implemented I would hope we would all venture onto the service. mostly cause it will be the games actual voice service.

i would guess the same way I got my friend on TS3 in the first place. using text in the chat room/lobby.

[Elandyll]

Joseph Mallan, on 04 February 2013 - 10:20 AM, said:

a few points I see differently and some I don't Elandyll,

Civility I can muster for everyone.

baby, life, family I am on the fence about, i don't have a baby any more, My son is autistic but older, my wife is somewhat understanding. however if that were different, I don't know if I would want this game to be made easier for me to play or not. I would think i would be of the same mind I am now and would either accept my limitations to being good at the game or i would just not play because the game should not be to easy for masses.

as a PUG I only played a couple hours a day cause I got bored. I play for hours as a lawman, cause the game IS funner when you are socializing.

YMMV.

Just for reference, I am not about "making the game easier" for Pugs. Rather, I am for making it more fair, and actually more interesting for Premades if possible (note that I am now part of the "pre-made" crow btw, just not "exclusively". I still drop Pug in between).
The kliller for a game is not difficulty, as long as there is a curve and that by working at it you will eventually get better.
The Killer is imbalance and unfairness (wether real or perceived).

Because the game cannot function as it is without solo players anyway, and that some players will play solo anwyay wether we like it or not, it is only natural to put in place some game mechanics that do not make them a second rate citizen imo.

I do not believe that ensuring that the matchmaker would systematically put in place another pre-made in fron of a pre-made is making things easier.
Not for the 1st premade, and not for the Pugs that were lucky enough to win at the MM lottery to be placed in the same team as the pre-made. Now, instead of only facing 8 solo players, they face 4-5 solo + 1 pug of 3 or 4...

Edited by Elandyll, 04 February 2013 - 12:08 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Well as I hear it ELO is supposed to make the playing field more level. We are still (yeah I'm going to say it) in beta and thus need to be more patient with things we don't like. it's fine to say we need to fix MM and I agree, but I should be able to play against any and all comers and be willing to accept the losses for what ever reason when they happen. Only I shouldn't say "I" because I can take my beat downs when they happen. and as a PUG for two hours or so... I found solace in my personal performance win or lose. Even when we got no Kills or assists. I still did good... Usually. I did have my drops with less than 90 damage, but I was clearly against a dam good team.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 04 February 2013 - 12:16 PM.