66 replies to this topic

[HiplyRustic]

Apoc1138, on 05 February 2013 - 02:54 AM, said:

as a programmer...



look at the area around the scope when he zooms in and out... NOT picture in picture zoom, the whole screen zooms at the same rate

so "as a programmer" you apparently don't have very good eyesight or understand what picture in picture zoom actually is

as a programmer I know that I have just enough knowledge to know that I know nothing about game development other than it must be an absolute ****** to test everything

ask me anything you want about enterprise scale SQL implementations, but I wouldn't know a DX11 ShaderTrace interface from a hole in the ground

Well, that video proves his point...just not the way you think it does. Watch the back end of the scope.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Sure looks like a completely different view to me. I mean, it even looks like it is displaying behind him.

Edited by HiplyRustic, 05 February 2013 - 07:19 AM.

[Megacromulent]

Apoc1138, on 05 February 2013 - 06:43 AM, said:

the OP said that "as a programmer" he KNEW that CryEngine supported PIP and posted screenshots of Sniper 2 as an example of CryEngine supporting PIP... my response that you quoted there is directly to show that Sniper (and CryEngine) DOESN'T support PIP

but sure, call ME daft for pointing out the truth

the OP opened this thread with insults and calling the Dev's liars
the OP was actually factually incorrect on half his claims, and failed to disclose that he'd modded the game resulting in a minor loss of functionality to something, before then posting up insulting the devs for breaking something that is actually broken as a result of his own tinkering

but sure, carry on slinging insults and lies about instead of politely suggesting something be changed as an interim measure while they work out how to properly support PIP

the core of the OP's final actual message (change the module to be a full screen x4 zoom instead of PIP) I actually support... but it didn't need to be wrapped up in insults, false claims, and screenshots derived from modding the game and then monkeying with them in photoshop to display a worst case scenario

the devs won't read this thread because it starts out with insults and lies, which is a shame as the core idea (minus the histrionics) was a good one, but poorly delivered

Wow, you are having a rager against nothing here dude, here EXACTLY what I said:

"SUGGESTION:
Instead of taking a square of Zoom x1 and resizing in the mini-window (which makes the blur crap), start with Zoom x3 and resize it instead. Here's what you would end up with:"

That is NOT cryengine PIP, that is their own hand made version of it, but they are starting with 100% zoomed out FOV and blowing up a small portion. Instead, I suggested starting with a FOV from 3x zoom and blowing that up. Again, I did NOT say Cryengine supported PIP (I know it doesn't).

I modded the game? You are irrational and don't read, I put a link in my post above to the FORUM here where I got the config, it's _not_ modding.

By saying I photoshopped those screen shots, you are calling me a liar. Pot meet kettle.

Also, I never called anyone a liar, here's exactly what I said:

"This makes me feel tricked, lied to, decieved."

Sorry if you don't like my feelings, but that's how I felt. I spent a crap ton of ******** games, getting rolled mostly by premades, to save my GXP and 2,000,000 CB, how should I feel? I can see rich kids not caring, but people with real lives, it's not the same...

Edited by Megachromulent, 05 February 2013 - 07:29 AM.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Megachromulent, on 05 February 2013 - 03:11 AM, said:

Wow, you are missing the boat. WHO CARES ABOUT PIP??? I bought a 4xZoom, and I got LESS than 3xZOOM. That is my point.

And yes, I am a programmer, and if you are one too, you _know_ there is documentation on APIs that explain how to control this stuff.

And here's some of it: (1 min on google to find)
http://freesdk.cryde...ML-Weapon-Scope

Note the section on zooming and weapons sites. (SCREW PIP, I paid for 4xZoom, NOT crappier 3xZoom)

File a support ticket and ask for a refund on your GXP if it's such an issue...

or maybe you should have come to the forums and asked "Is the PnP zoom module worth it guys?"

to which you'd have been told "no, it sucks... get target degredation or retention or capture accellerator" or any of the other hugely useful modules.

Really it falls on you for NOT doing any research. Should this information be readily available ingame, yes, it should, but I disagree that it should be in some virtual "Try before you buy" setting. I DO think that modules and the like should have a video available or the like to highlight what the item does.

[Megacromulent]

Jade Kitsune, on 05 February 2013 - 07:24 AM, said:

File a support ticket and ask for a refund on your GXP if it's such an issue...

or maybe you should have come to the forums and asked "Is the PnP zoom module worth it guys?"

to which you'd have been told "no, it sucks... get target degredation or retention or capture accellerator" or any of the other hugely useful modules.

Really it falls on you for NOT doing any research. Should this information be readily available ingame, yes, it should, but I disagree that it should be in some virtual "Try before you buy" setting. I DO think that modules and the like should have a video available or the like to highlight what the item does.

That's a great suggestion, but it's really lame compared to having a testing area, or even a screen shot in game, or two or three sentences in game describing what the effect of this really exspensive "skill" is that guess what? After spending 5000 GXP, it doesn't actually do anything! It just unlocks another exspensive thing to buy! And where does it say that is how the game works? Hidden in the middle of a forum? lol, you really believe this is how games should work?

But hey, I am just a stupid noob. and I should have known better!

Edited by Megachromulent, 05 February 2013 - 07:34 AM.

[Mercules]

Megachromulent, on 05 February 2013 - 07:33 AM, said:

That's a great suggestion, but it's really lame compared to having a testing area, or even a screen shot in game, or two or three sentences in game describing what the effect of this really exspensive "skill" is that guess what? After spending 5000 GXP, it doesn't actually do anything! It just unlocks another exspensive thing to buy! And where does it say that is how the game works? Hidden in the middle of a forum? lol, you really believe this is how games should work?

But hey, I am just a stupid noob. and I should have known better!

You should have. Right from the "Beta" tag on the icon. I believe that is the main reason they don't have all those things. They are constantly changing things and so spending the extra time writing up detailed explanations and help files for every thing and then having to go back and make sure those things are changed as well eats up time/money.

I run into this where I work even though we only update the product every 6 months or so. We add in a feature and after it is out there someone goes, "Did we update the guide to include that?" Most MMOs don't offer much more than vague descriptions on anything because if they change it they have to make sure they go and edit the information. This is why so many of them have wiki that are much better and more detailed than the information given out by the developers.

VPhelxV, on 05 February 2013 - 07:41 AM, said:

Its ok folks, NONE of your ****** up problems have anything to do with your system specs and i withs ppl would stop saying otherwise. PGi just needs to fix thier ****** up game. because it is ****** beyond belief... There is too much evidence to say anything else. ITS NOT YOUR COMPUTER it is the ******* game!!!!!!!!!! To anyone and i mean anyone that says otherwise must have a brain of a diatom.

Sarcasm, right? It's hard to tell because a bunch of forum posters actually believe this.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Megachromulent, on 05 February 2013 - 07:33 AM, said:

That's a great suggestion, but it's really lame compared to having a testing area, or even a screen shot in game, or two or three sentences in game describing what the effect of this really exspensive "skill" is that guess what? After spending 5000 GXP, it doesn't actually do anything! It just unlocks another exspensive thing to buy! And where does it say that is how the game works? Hidden in the middle of a forum? lol, you really believe this is how games should work?

But hey, I am just a stupid noob. and I should have known better!

Hmm, let me quote myself.

Quote

I DO think that modules and the like should have a video available or the like to highlight what the item does.

I believe that there are many issues that have come out in this game that frankly, shouldn't have been issues. and there's a TON of cleanup/things that need to be done to/added to the UI.

I'm in no way saying you're "Wrong" here Mega... I'm saying that you've stumbled apon a KNOWN ISSUE. a rather well known issue since at least Closed Beta.

NO ONE uses the PnP zoom... because it sucks. You could have saved yourself the GXP and C-bills by taking 10 minutes out of your day and coming to the forms which you obviously know how to do, to ask a question... gotten an answer, and avoided the headache. I'm commenting on the specific issue you're having, which DOES NOT stem from not having a "Testing" area.

I hate to be "That guy" right now... but we ARE still in a product that the devs have chosen to classify as "Beta" [even if I don't agree with the classification due to the real money they're taking from players] Which means they are going to treat said product as a Beta, and this is one of the things we've been harping on them about for months, to clarify what things do in the mechlab.

Hell the weapons that have minimum and maximum ranges don't even state their min/max range! I'm sure you know the ranges of most weapons do you not? and where did you get that information, I'll answer that THE FORUMS!

So you chose not to get some information from where you got prior information and it bit you in the butt. Sorry bro, but tis life, live, learn and ask for a GXP/C-bill refund from Support... that's your option now.

[Apoc1138]

Megachromulent, on 05 February 2013 - 07:24 AM, said:

Again, I did NOT say Cryengine supported PIP (I know it doesn't).

I modded the game? You are irrational and don't read, I put a link in my post above to the FORUM here where I got the config, it's _not_ modding.

here is you saying that a cryengine game supports PIP, and calling the devs of MWO liars for saying that it doesn't

Megachromulent, on 05 February 2013 - 02:34 AM, said:

Guess what, here's an entire SNIPER GAME using Cryengine 3. Now tell me how they won't have proper working zoom in a sniper game?

You and the devs want to stand by the ridiculous claim that a zoom isn't possible with Cryengine??

Unless, they are faking the entire game... First SECONDS of the video show Cryengine 3 doing pip zoom.

your screenshots show a 4x zoom target being smaller than when using 3x... mine show the target being 25-30% larger, so other than undeclared modifications to the game, or doctored screenshots, please explain that discrepancy to me?

a random user posting something on the forums does not make it sanctioned and supported by the devs, not sure what part of that you are struggling with, the devs have repeatedly asked people NOT to use user config settings for graphics options (except as a last resort AND that it's not supported - if you have any problems as a result, the first thing they ask you to do is to delete your user config)

modifying settings using config files instead of the in game options is indeed modifying the game

(by the way, I also tried the film grain removal tip that is also on this forum, and it caused me to crash to desktop every single match - guess what I did, did I rage on the forum claiming that I know how to program better than the devs do? or did I simply delete the mod and play the game the way it was given to me in the first place?)

HiplyRustic, on 05 February 2013 - 07:17 AM, said:

Well, that video proves his point...just not the way you think it does. Watch the back end of the scope.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Sure looks like a completely different view to me. I mean, it even looks like it is displaying behind him.

CryEngine does indeed support reflections at the same FOV, and it supports picture in picture where the scene is rendered twice - it's unclear in the video, but the reflection is either at the same FOV as the main image, or it's being rendered at drastically reduced resolution and settings, so no, it doesn't support the OP's claims

Edited by Apoc1138, 05 February 2013 - 08:16 AM.

[Megacromulent]

Jade Kitsune, on 05 February 2013 - 07:43 AM, said:

I'm in no way saying you're "Wrong" here Mega... I'm saying that you've stumbled apon a KNOWN ISSUE. a rather well known issue since at least Closed Beta.

NO ONE uses the PnP zoom... because it sucks. You could have saved yourself the GXP and C-bills by taking 10 minutes out of your day and coming to the forms which you obviously know how to do, to ask a question... gotten an answer, and avoided the headache. I'm commenting on the specific issue you're having, which DOES NOT stem from not having a "Testing" area.

....
Hell the weapons that have minimum and maximum ranges don't even state their min/max range! I'm sure you know the ranges of most weapons do you not? and where did you get that information, I'll answer that THE FORUMS!

So you chose not to get some information from where you got prior information and it bit you in the butt. Sorry bro, but tis life, live, learn and ask for a GXP/C-bill refund from Support... that's your option now.

No, I got my info from here: (not the forums)
http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/

You missed my point, a forum should _not_ be considered a valid source of information like "if you buy this skill GXP, you will need to buy a module to actually use this skill", who the hell thinks that is something to even ask for look for? It's not obvious, so I had no idea that I should look in the forum.

So, no, the forum is not an answer to problems like this. And every single new player will get screwed over by default, at least once to learn this. I didn't even know XP was going towards anything until after I had gained about 12,000 xp. Why? Cause it's not obvious in the game anywhere.

I appreciate your reply, even though it's not a solution, at least you provided a thoughtful solution. And yes, I understand "being that guy", I think ECM is fine as is.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Megachromulent, on 05 February 2013 - 08:09 AM, said:

No, I got my info from here: (not the forums)
http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/

You missed my point, a forum should _not_ be considered a valid source of information like "if you buy this skill GXP, you will need to buy a module to actually use this skill", who the hell thinks that is something to even ask for look for? It's not obvious, so I had no idea that I should look in the forum.

So, no, the forum is not an answer to problems like this. And every single new player will get screwed over by default, at least once to learn this. I didn't even know XP was going towards anything until after I had gained about 12,000 xp. Why? Cause it's not obvious in the game anywhere.

I appreciate your reply, even though it's not a solution, at least you provided a thoughtful solution. And yes, I understand "being that guy", I think ECM is fine as is.

So... you're fine with going to a third party source "Smurfy.net" but you're not ok with coming to the offical forums?

Yeah I think I see the issue.

And I agree, not every new player will want to come here, it screws them over pretty hard. But to put things in perspective, I was one of the one's fighting for PGI to hold off going Open Beta until we were at about where we are now with devlopment. And what happened when they went open beta? The fourms became WAY more toxic than they were back during Closed Beta because now people viewed MWO as a "product" and not as an "Incomplete product"

PGI has already screwed the pooch when it comes to many "New Players" Mega, it's as simple as that, nothing they do now will really bring back any that have been lost... and we're going to keep loosing "new" players until this game get's to a point that all information you could want really is readily available in game.

Frankly on the side of the PNP zoom module, that module should have been removed some time ago... why it's still there is frankly, baffling.

Edit: What this game needs right now, for new players more than anything, is a Tutorial level on par with Mechwarrior 3 or Mechwarrior 4's tutorial system.

Tutorial Video's and Tutorial write ups are great, and I've even done one or two of them, but it's not the answer. A full out Tutorial Level is needed for movement, weapons, shooting, moving while shooting, torso twist, and arm reticle information. Put the pilots in a "Spider" [a classic TT training mech] and let them go though this training, then put them though a "New Pilots Only" area that let's them fight their own for around 30+ matches [number can be decided by the devs] keep the new player bonus as we have it, and really give them a chance to learn, THEN they can get thrown in with the big fishes.

Edited by Jade Kitsune, 05 February 2013 - 08:19 AM.

[Megacromulent]

Apoc1138, on 05 February 2013 - 08:07 AM, said:

here is you saying that a cryengine game supports PIP, and calling the devs of MWO liars for saying that it doesn't

Well you got me there, I wasn't careful with my analysis until later in the thread, but compare my original posts with my other posts, I said "Who cares about pip zoom anyways? Zoom x4 full screen would be great!" That was never a point to my argument, my issue was with buying stuff that is borked up. Also, show me where I said "liar"... keep in mind, it's easy for me to go edit my comments out to make myself look "more right". My point has always been that the zoom is crap, "look here at this game, they have good zoom" Claiming that that is 4x zoom is laugable, it's just blurry mess of 1x zoom. Again, if it's intentional, then mark it so, so we don't waste money/time on it. (was this part not clear before?)

Apoc1138, on 05 February 2013 - 08:07 AM, said:

your screenshots show a 4x zoom target being smaller than when using 3x... mine show the target being 25-30% larger, so other than undeclared modifications to the game, or doctored screenshots, please explain that discrepancy to me?

Again, everyone says "Find your answer on the forums!!" Doh, me stupid noob, does just that, people say it's "ok" and "not modding" on the forums, and those posts are _still there_. I have answer for your 4x zoom argument, I downloaded the SDK for Cryengine 3 (yes, I am a real programmer) and I ran tests on the default zoom, at first glance, it appears to be quite a bit better than MWO zoom... so they either changed something, or something is mangled.

Apoc1138, on 05 February 2013 - 08:07 AM, said:

a random user posting something on the forums does not make it sanctioned and supported by the devs, not sure what part of that you are struggling with, the devs have repeatedly asked people NOT to use user config settings for graphics options (except as a last resort AND that it's not supported - if you have any problems as a result, the first thing they ask you to do is to delete your user config)

I am officially tired of this argument, everyone says "go to the forums for answers", and I specifically read "I asked the devs if using user config was ok, and they said yes". If you care, look it up, I don't anymore, you could give a crap. (in fact, post where they say "don't use user configs", I'd like to see that)

Apoc1138, on 05 February 2013 - 08:07 AM, said:

modifying settings using config files instead of the in game options is indeed modifying the game

Okey dokey, only I DIDN'T modify _one_ single file from the game, but I guess in opposite world your argument makes sense...

Apoc1138, on 05 February 2013 - 08:07 AM, said:

(by the way, I also tried the film grain removal tip that is also on this forum, and it caused me to crash to desktop every single match - guess what I did, did I rage on the forum claiming that I know how to program better than the devs do? or did I simply delete the mod and play the game the way it was given to me in the first place?)

To bad, film grain sucks big time. All blurry and messy. Maybe you didn't do it right... Again, thanks to veterans like you, noobs like me have a better time playing. Thanks for all the help!

[Megacromulent]

Jade Kitsune, on 05 February 2013 - 08:14 AM, said:

So... you're fine with going to a third party source "Smurfy.net" but you're not ok with coming to the offical forums?

Yeah I think I see the issue.
...
PGI has already screwed the pooch when it comes to many "New Players" Mega, it's as simple as that, nothing they do now will really bring back any that have been lost... and we're going to keep loosing "new" players until this game get's to a point that all information you could want really is readily available in game.

First, thanks for a thoughtful reply, I appreciate it. Second, smurfy-net says they actually use the game files for their data, so it's spot on, with exact numbers (like TT) which is why I trust it and appreciate it as a source. (no offcial source comes close)

Well, I think the game is cool enough that I tolerate the issues, I want it to get better, but it won't with just a bunch of cheerlearders, real criticism is valuable.

Tooltips, popup windows, anything with at least the same info I can get at smurfy's site... *sigh* Oh well.

[Apoc1138]

Megachromulent, on 05 February 2013 - 08:24 AM, said:

Also, show me where I said "liar"...

I am officially tired of this argument, everyone says "go to the forums for answers", and I specifically read "I asked the devs if using user config was ok, and they said yes". If you care, look it up, I don't anymore, you could give a crap. (in fact, post where they say "don't use user configs", I'd like to see that)

Okey dokey, only I DIDN'T modify _one_ single file from the game, but I guess in opposite world your argument makes sense...

you didn't explicitly say the word "liar" however, the meaning of english words when strung together tend to indicate that when you say that someone said something that isn't true, you are calling them a liar, as demonstrated in the same quote I used above;

Megachromulent, on 05 February 2013 - 02:34 AM, said:

You and the devs want to stand by the ridiculous claim that a zoom isn't possible with Cryengine??

Unless, they are faking the entire game... First SECONDS of the video show Cryengine 3 doing pip zoom.

now that it's been shown that cryengine does not support PIP zoom by default, it is no longer a "ridiculous claim"
now, you might come back and say that in the first line here you mean a 4x fullscreen zoom, however, when taken in proper context as concurrent statements, you are clearly referring to PIP zoom in both statements

the devs are "ok" with you modifying the config files, as in it's not a bannable exploit, however that is not the same thing as being sanctioned and supported... when you do that though, they won't go out of their way to "fix" something in the game that has become broken, or less useful, as a result of modifications made by yourself

the devs intended the game to be used at a particular FOV... when you use the default FOV you get a better advantage out of PIP Zoom than you do when you modify the FOV... it may well be that WHEN they add FOV as a user adjustable setting, they also modify the way the PIP zoom works to compensate

in the meantime, don't use PIP if you don't like it

and do try asking on the forum regarding the usefulness of modules if buying one might lead to a sense of betrayal

you have been overly (and needlessly) aggressive from the beginning of the thread, and that tends to engender a similar response

I get that you are annoyed at having spent out cbills and GXP on a module that you don't find to be useful (I personally do, but that by the by)... my suggestion is that next time, you take a deep breath and instead of lashing out with accusations and recriminations, you post a succinct post in the "Suggestions" section that says "I don't like the zoom module, would this work better as a full screen zoom, at least until you work out how to better support PIP within cryengine"

Edited by Apoc1138, 05 February 2013 - 08:41 AM.

[HiplyRustic]

Apoc1138, on 05 February 2013 - 08:07 AM, said:

here is you saying that a cryengine game supports PIP, and calling the devs of MWO liars for saying that it doesn't




CryEngine does indeed support reflections at the same FOV, and it supports picture in picture where the scene is rendered twice - it's unclear in the video, but the reflection is either at the same FOV as the main image, or it's being rendered at drastically reduced resolution and settings, so no, it doesn't support the OP's claims

Well, having now done my own legwork, I'll stand corrected.

http://www.crydev.ne...69239&start=585 from CryDev Olli

>>
"also the way our renderer works is that a currently rendered frame depends on buffers of the previous frame, so if you would render the scene from a different perspective for a mirror you would have to store all those buffers twice. so you're not only paying the price for rendering everything twice, you also pay the memory costs twice. even if you would compress and accept lower res and artefacts for the mirror image you will end up with at least double the memory costs...and we're talking gpu memory here. memory that wouldnt be available for other stuff like textures and meshes! so you would've to reduce the overall image quality just to have ONE mirror here and there...people seem to forget, that we want to make a game instead of just one cool scene, so you almost always want to improve the overall experience instead of just a few places here and there, wouldnt you? "
>>

Edited by HiplyRustic, 05 February 2013 - 08:46 AM.

[Megacromulent]

Apoc1138, on 05 February 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

you didn't explicitly say the word "liar" however, the meaning of english words when strung together tend to indicate that when you say that someone said something that isn't true, you are calling them a liar, as demonstrated in the same quote I used above;

But not similar to how you called me a "liar"? Again, pot meet kettle. How come you still arguing this point? I didn't mean to imply they lied, so I will clarify, I think they have no intentions of making the specifics of how the game works clear to the end users. Otherwise they would have, it take only a few minutes to write it down on a forum post.

Apoc1138, on 05 February 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

now that it's been shown that cryengine does not support PIP zoom by default, it is no longer a "ridiculous claim"
now, you might come back and say that in the first line here you mean a 4x fullscreen zoom, however, when taken in proper context as concurrent statements, you are clearly referring to PIP zoom in both statements

You are right, you caught me in a slip up, an error and down right dirty use of arguing tactics that over emphasises a point to make the other person look more wronger and stuff.

To resolve this, I will be clear, "who cares about pip, you can make 4xzoom work without it right now, so why sell a terribly lousy thing? Or please relable to "really blury kinda good zoom-in module". You know why it's deceptive right? Cause zoom 1.5 looks good, zoom 3.0 looks good.... soooo zoomx4 should look good to right? Please berate me on my ignorance, cause I am stupid noob who needs lesson. Cause the "string of zooms" lead me to believe something that wasn't true.

Apoc1138, on 05 February 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

the devs are "ok" with you modifying the config files, as in it's not a bannable exploit, however that is not the same thing as being sanctioned and supported... when you do that though, they won't go out of their way to "fix" something in the game that has become broken, or less useful, as a result of modifications made by yourself

Post a quote, or link, otherwise this just seems like you raging, and trying to back peddle.

Apoc1138, on 05 February 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

the devs intended the game to be used at a particular FOV... when you use the default FOV you get a better advantage out of PIP Zoom than you do when you modify the FOV... it may well be that WHEN they add FOV as a user adjustable setting, they also modify the way the PIP zoom works to compensate

Wow, I guess I can't use a higher res monitor, or a faster CPU or better graphics card either, cause that would give me an advantage... which is wierd, cause you said 90 fov sucked a bit ago. Back peddling again? You seem to talking with some kind of over compensating authority...

Apoc1138, on 05 February 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

in the meantime, don't use PIP if you don't like it

Thanks for the sage advice, love the veteran feedback to the noob.

Apoc1138, on 05 February 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

and do try asking on the forum regarding the usefulness of modules if buying one might lead to a sense of betrayal

you have been overly (and needlessly) aggressive from the beginning of the thread, and that tends to engender a similar response

Huh, I gained a bit of respect for you just then, better stop being reasonable or we won't be able to keep arguing.

Apoc1138, on 05 February 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

I get that you are annoyed at having spent out cbills and GXP on a module that you don't find to be useful (I personally do, but that by the by)... my suggestion is that next time, you take a deep breath and instead of lashing out with accusations and recriminations, you post a succinct post in the "Suggestions" section that says "I don't like the zoom module, would this work better as a full screen zoom, at least until you work out how to better support PIP within cryengine"

Well, that does it sir, cooler heads have prevailed. I will have to argue with you again some other time. You are right, I should have posted something much more reasonable, but then I probably wouldn't have bothered to post at all, cause I wouldn't have seen the use after cooling down. Not sure this makes much sense, but it will have to do.

[Apoc1138]

Quote

the devs intended the game to be used at a particular FOV... when you use the default FOV you get a better advantage out of PIP Zoom than you do when you modify the FOV... it may well be that WHEN they add FOV as a user adjustable setting, they also modify the way the PIP zoom works to compensate

Megachromulent, on 05 February 2013 - 08:58 AM, said:

Wow, I guess I can't use a higher res monitor, or a faster CPU or better graphics card either, cause that would give me an advantage... which is wierd, cause you said 90 fov sucked a bit ago. Back peddling again? You seem to talking with some kind of over compensating authority...

one last one, for old times sake?

there is a difference between modifying something being considered an exploit and being bannable, and something being "supported" by the devs, but you seem to be combining the 2 in to a single point to argue for or against both

e.g. modifying a texture file to make it transparent so that you can see other players through walls = exploit, not supported and also bannable
modifying FOV = not exploit, also not supported, unexpected side effects (such as zoom module being less effective) can happen / not supported

higher resolutions are supported in game via the menu, and if you had a problem with one I'm sure you would get support on it from tech support, similarly CPU's and GPU's that are above the minimum spec for the game = not an exploit, actively supported

hope this helps

also, never let the facts get in the way of a good argument as I always say

Edited by Apoc1138, 05 February 2013 - 09:09 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

Instead of taking a square of Zoom x1 and resizing in the mini-window (which makes the blur crap), start with Zoom x3 and resize it instead. Here's what you would end up with:

No thanks. You've missed the whole point. The entire purpose of window-in-window zoom is that you retain your situational awareness by the rest of the screen only being Zoom x1.

[Vassago Rain]

Khobai, on 05 February 2013 - 09:12 AM, said:

No thanks. You've missed the whole point. The entire purpose of window-in-window zoom is that you retain your situational awareness by the rest of the screen only being Zoom x1.

But that doesn't currently work, so why don't they give us a +1 zoom level for the module instead?
I have it equipped on my atlas, but I forget about it most of the time.

Even when I do remember it, thernal and regular zoom would have been far better.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

The engine is not stopping it from working properly, they just aren't doing it. Basically, your GPU will have to do more work in order to load and/or store more high res textures in its VRAM. This will make the game more demanding to run but is not impossible by any means. In fact, it's done by almost every game that uses any kind of zoom. It just isn't turned on here for some reason, thus you're zooming in on distance/low res textures. Why is it like this? Well. You'd have to ask Piranha. But then again, these are guys that also can't put in destructible terrain in any shape or form on an engine built for that. Don't expect miracles. But I must wonder why the module exists at all if they've yet to have it working properly. This mod never should have saw the light of day until it actually did what it's suppose to do. Everyone that buys this no doubt feels ripped off. Luckily for me, I saw it in use on spectator and read warnings before I ever got it.

I hope they fix this module at some point, but until then, I have no plans to ever buy it, nor should you. If you got dupped by Piranha for this thing, then I can't help you. You could ask them for a refund on it but GL with that. Even if it did work, it isn't that great of a module because this game is skewed almost entirely to close range with little to no regard to long range combat. Simply put, you will rarely, if ever, need to see farther than what the regular zoom provides.

Edited by Bluten, 05 February 2013 - 09:23 AM.

[Greyfyl]

Anyone who has ever played a MW game would have known that proper implementation of zoom was important. Not gamebreaking, but certainly a key feature of mech combat.

How we can be this far into the game without it being properly implemented boggles my mind almost as much as why we are still waiting for any kind of matchmaking in an online pvp only game.

Edited by Greyfyl, 05 February 2013 - 09:27 AM.

[Rizzelbizzeg]

Megachromulent, on 05 February 2013 - 08:58 AM, said:

...
To resolve this, I will be clear, "who cares about pip
...

I do, pip is neat! Because of...

Khobai, on 05 February 2013 - 09:12 AM, said:

No thanks. You've missed the whole point. The entire purpose of window-in-window zoom is that you retain your situational awareness by the rest of the screen only being Zoom x1.

OP: Ty for the aggressive and then OVERLY passive aggressive 'tude. I appreciate the luls