74 replies to this topic

[SC1P1O]

That is what I'm doing, so far I am having fun, but I am struggling with making the mech a game changer. In my ddc or splat cat i average 3-4 kills and 800-1000 damage, this is a completely different style of play, it is support instead of lead from the front. and the Dps is not high, so I'm struggling with making it a viable mech to help a 4 man or 8 man setup.

also i agree the lbx 10 is much easier to target with being that it has a spread and you just need to be in the general area of the target, but if im going to play this for a while i want to be able to put my damage on a targets specific area. I will just have to get used to hitting moving targets while moving in lines that are not parallel.

However, from experience it seems that the projectile does not follow the retical on the arms like lasers do its seems to be a random spread around it.

[Orzorn]

I think folks claiming that the Dragon has less firepower than other mechs just aren't looking at it right. My DRG 1N with 2 MPLAS, 2 SRM 4, and 1 Gauss can put out a 47 damage alpha strike. Even a gaussapult with 4 mlas and 2 gauss can put out only 3 more points of damage.

Besides that, no other heavy approaches the speed capable by the Dragon, nor do they approach its overall flexibility (the Dragon, fully twisted and arms at max angle, is still 10 degrees more than the Catapult, without any tweaks involved).

Really, what you do have to keep in mind is that your hardpoints are odd, and you need to play to their strengths. The 1C can use its shoulder mounted energy to peek over hills and snipe with large lasers or PPCs. The arm mount ballistics lets you make snap shots (if you can deal with the weird convergence at times), which in turn lets you run circles around slower mechs.

Honestly, I do not fear Catapults, Phracts, Atlas mechs, or any other mech besides the a Stalker SRM boat (because they hit like trucks and have a lot of armor to dig through) and Ravens and Commandos (because they can run circles around me better than I can run circles around them).

The power of the Dragon is its speed and ability to find positions to be exploited. A good DRagon pilot is constantly repositioning to be in the best position. A bad pilot uses his superior speed to get into range, then stands in the same general area and slugs it out. Not that the Dragon can't do that (you usually can survive one good slug out per match), but you're wasting your potential if you do.

A Dragon should always be in the right place at the right time.

Edited by Orzorn, 05 February 2013 - 09:26 AM.

[John MatriX82]

Orzorn, on 05 February 2013 - 09:22 AM, said:

The power of the Dragon is its speed and ability to find positions to be exploited. A good DRagon pilot is constantly repositioning to be in the best position. A bad pilot uses his superior speed to get into range, then stands in the same general area and slugs it out. Not that the Dragon can't do that (you usually can survive one good slug out per match), but you're wasting your potential if you do.

A Dragon should always be in the right place at the right time.

Other words to be written in the stone. Dragons (especially 1C with 4 mlas) aren't either that bad against lights, even more now that netcode has improved, and once knockdowns will be back in..

The only lights I fear in my Dragons are ssrm bearing when you meet them alone in pairs. Until it's a lightmech alone it's "doable" especially in the 1C.

[Redoxin]

Flapdrol, on 05 February 2013 - 07:35 AM, said:

The flame has nice hardpoints, the rest of the dragons dont, that's its biggest weakness.

The 1C has the same hardpoints as Flame, only distributed differently. Both are great mechs.

And Dragons dont replace a A1 Catapult or whatever, they have a different role with different strengths.

[The Amazing Atomic Spaniel]

SC1P1O, on 05 February 2013 - 08:57 AM, said:

In my ddc or splat cat i average 3-4 kills and 800-1000 damage, this is a completely different style of play, it is support instead of lead from the front. and the Dps is not high, so I'm struggling with making it a viable mech to help a 4 man or 8 man setup.

If you're playing to win then there are only a few mechs you should use - DDC, splatlapult or 2AC20-pult, I guess. Great if you are 15 years old and must win at everything. Must get boring though. In fact, I did drive a splatapult for one evening. It instantly doubled my K/D ratio, but was so easy that there was no challenge. I've not driven it since.

However, if you're a bit older and more relaxed, then playing for fun and using the underdog mechs is a nice challenge. I normally drive Awesomes and Dragons, not because they are good but precisely because they are not good.

[SC1P1O]

the 47 alpha is a good point, but with a catapult its all focused on one fire, 90 30 40 ect, The problem with the dragons alpha is that it is in the arms and ct so you cant put all 47 at once unless your moving in a straight line or stopped. You can do it but its hard with convergence. where as the cat where you point all your damage is going there.

Its not an easy mech to drive the A1 its just that if piloted well its very powerful.

[Orzorn]

RocketDog, on 05 February 2013 - 09:46 AM, said:

However, if you're a bit older and more relaxed, then playing for fun and using the underdog mechs is a nice challenge. I normally drive Awesomes and Dragons, not because they are good but precisely because they are not good.

There's a big difference between not being the best cheese and not being good. Spiders aren't good (most of the time). The 4MG Cicada is not good, and I'd agree that most Awesome's (Except the missile variants) aren't good, but the Dragon does something that no other heavy does, and it does it well.

The fact of the matter is that most mechs in the game are good, they just aren't all the top cheese like D-DCs, Splatapults, and Raven 3Ls, but if I wanted to stomp everything I'd go outside and fry ants with a magnifying glass, as it would be just about as challenging.

The Dragon is challenging, has weird hardpoints, and isn't 5 tons heavier to match the Catapult, so people tend to bad mouth it because they can't pick it up immediately. The builds posted here are good because they take advantage of the Dragon's speed, hardpoint placement, and other particulars. If someone tries to take a mech out of its element, they really don't have a right to complain that it doesn't perform well.

SC1P1O, on 05 February 2013 - 10:03 AM, said:

the 47 alpha is a good point, but with a catapult its all focused on one fire, 90 30 40 ect, The problem with the dragons alpha is that it is in the arms and ct so you cant put all 47 at once unless your moving in a straight line or stopped. You can do it but its hard with convergence. where as the cat where you point all your damage is going there.

Its not an easy mech to drive the A1 its just that if piloted well its very powerful.

Well, all I can say is that I can put it on one spot. Its harder to do because your arms and torso are separate like they are, but that's part of the strength of the Dragon.

I have pilot look bound to the shift key.

I press that key a lot.

[SC1P1O]

I never thought of using that, How does it help you out? is it a must have for a dragon? (pilot look)

[Shade4x]

SC1P1O, on 05 February 2013 - 10:03 AM, said:

the 47 alpha is a good point, but with a catapult its all focused on one fire, 90 30 40 ect, The problem with the dragons alpha is that it is in the arms and ct so you cant put all 47 at once unless your moving in a straight line or stopped. You can do it but its hard with convergence. where as the cat where you point all your damage is going there.

Its not an easy mech to drive the A1 its just that if piloted well its very powerful.

Your missing the point of a dragon. You use its speed to get behind enemy mech's, especially snipers and lrm boats. You shoot them in the back, where the armor is weakest. Dragon's are a direct counter to assult mech's (9m is the exception) because they have the armor to take a few hits, the armament to do serious damage and the speed to manuever to the back of the enemy. You just can't circle straife like a mindless *****. You have to stay behind them. Think of them as a raven with more firepower. Now that 50+ damage alpha is not as important as the dps. You can get a dragon to nearly 19 dps. That means it takes very little time (3-5 seconds) to core an atlass from behind assuming everything hits. If it doesn't, its more like 7 seconds.

Every dragon that i've seen in the field tends to want to brawl with it. Just because you have the armor for it, doesn't mean you should.

[pbiggz]

My flame has been wonderful to me. I'm currently building a 1C. Making proper use of upgrades and weapons however is key with the dragon. I.E. endosteel, ferro, and dbl heatsinks are a must for me. The side torsos of the dragon have a relatively low profile, so XL can be an option, especially if you intend to run the 4 mlas 1 gauss or 2ppc 1 gauss sniper builds. I agree with Orzorn, the hardpoint layout is odd, but it by no means puts you at a disadvantage. You must learn to use each mech in its own way. This was already said but I will restate it, taking a mech out of it's own element wont be fun, don't expect to replace a k2 or a phract with a dragon, but dont expect to replace a dragon with a phract or a k2, each mech has its own role and you should learn it well. My 3lrglas srm6 flame with endosteel, ferro, dbl heatsinks and a std 300 engine is so far my favourite mech.

With regards to cheese builds, THE DISHONOURABLE FOE MUST BE SLAIN. Splatcats and ddcs are perfectly legitimate builds, just no that in my opinion you are scum for using them, just like politicians. Learn to play this game, not butcher it.

Edited by pbiggz, 05 February 2013 - 10:49 AM.

[SC1P1O]

The point that is should not be played like a catapult and other brawlers is a legitimate one. Is it better to run in a pack with dragons or are you better of soloing? also as i said before how useful is the pilot look in the dragon, What does it do for you that you cant anticipate in your mind where the enemy will be? In addition what modules are good for the dragon, I was thinking fast cap in case your team is being pressured and you need to pull some people back, it seems sensor range also since your going to be ahead at the beginning and try to get a scout report.. Now the dragon is not a scout, so is it played more as a support mech medium, do i want to be around my team most of the time or do i want to go off to a secluded spot to watch the battle and see where i can drop in to do the most damage?

[pbiggz]

I usually stay close to team mates or at least in a place where i can be supported and run circles around targets at 200-400 meters. I guess a medium ranged brawler is the best way to put it. I have on multiple occasions, escaped complete destruction by a cheese build ddc or splat cat simply by using my speed effectively and getting out of range/field of view. DDCs cant shoot backwards, and splatcats are dead beyond 270 meters. My large laser trio provides a ton of damage at all ranges whilst my srm 6 rack gives me the burst i need for the kill when im closing in on the nearly cored target.

[Kmieciu]

I mastered both the Dragons and Catapults, and I have to admit the Cat is better overall. With XL300 and speed tweak, the Dragon is 7kph faster (89 vs 82 kph), but you cannot mount dual Gauss rifles, dual UAC5 or dual AC20 or six missile launchers.

So instead of DPS the Dragon has to utilize high alpha damage and versatility. This is my favorite build:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0261d9a6a677839
50 points of alpha @ 89 kph is a force to be reckoned with. You can outrun the splatcat and ac20 cat and engage them out of their range using Gauss, and you can out-DPS a Gausspult at close range. Even an Ilya with triple UAC5 is not that scary because he has to constantly face you and expose his center torso while you turn and torso twist between alphas.

Ina nutshell a Dragon is a universal "jack of all trades" mech, that requires you to play smart and exploit the weakness of an enemy .

That being said, a Catapult is better at stomping noobs...

Edited by Kmieciu, 05 February 2013 - 11:46 AM.

[Malsumis]

SC1P1O, on 05 February 2013 - 10:03 AM, said:

the 47 alpha is a good point, but with a catapult its all focused on one fire, 90 30 40 ect, The problem with the dragons alpha is that it is in the arms and ct so you cant put all 47 at once unless your moving in a straight line or stopped. You can do it but its hard with convergence. where as the cat where you point all your damage is going there.

Its not an easy mech to drive the A1 its just that if piloted well its very powerful.

This is also another point that many can not comprehend when it comes to playing this game. This is not CoD or any other FPS with 1 main firing button. You have 6 groups of weapons that you can configure. Learn to use them. Try building a setup that you don't just mash one button. I alpha strike pretty often as do most, but I run my setups a bit hot so I can not alpha every shot, but I also don't need to. I use my weapon groups to keep constant pressure while cooling down enough for more alpha strikes. I have a minimum of 3 weapon groups on ALL my setups.

The other issue right now is map size which allows the splatapult to excel. Once we get some real sized maps these short ranged builds will not be as useful. And at that, a lot of pilots will need to look at longer ranged weapons or at least learn to be accurate with them outside of 300m.

[Abraham Moneybags]

The 1C was the first Dragon I fully unlocked. Until I bought the flame it was also the "go to" mech for me. I generally like 2 LL and 1 gauss. More than a few times I've broken 1k damage and or 5 kills in it, while I really do love my dual gauss Marmoset there are very few things that a well piloted dragon can't handle.

[The Amazing Atomic Spaniel]

Kmieciu, on 05 February 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

I mastered both the Dragons and Catapults, and I have to admit the Cat is better overall. With XL300 and speed tweak, the Dragon is 7kph faster (89 vs 82 kph), but you cannot mount dual Gauss rifles, dual UAC5 or dual AC20 or six missile launchers.

So instead of DPS the Dragon has to utilize high alpha damage and versatility. This is my favorite build:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0261d9a6a677839
50 points of alpha @ 89 kph is a force to be reckoned with. You can outrun the splatcat and ac20 cat and engage them out of their range using Gauss, and you can out-DPS a Gausspult at close range. Even an Ilya with triple UAC5 is not that scary because he has to constantly face you and expose his center torso while you turn and torso twist between alphas.

Ina nutshell a Dragon is a universal "jack of all trades" mech, that requires you to play smart and exploit the weakness of an enemy .

That being said, a Catapult is better at stomping noobs...

Agreed 100%. The Gauss + 4ML + SRM6 loadout can be very effective when delivered to the rear of an assault mech as you zoom past.

[Jel]

Flame or 1C

350XL w/ 14 DHS (104 kph w/ speed tweak)
Endo Steel
Ferro Fibrous
4 LL
Max armor except legs at 52

Heat would be difficult to manage in a sustained engagement with this build, but it's excellent for hit and run.
I alternate between this with my Flame, and

300XL w 12 DHS (90 kph w/ speed tweak)
Endo Steel
4 ML
1 GR (3 tons ammo)
1 SRM6 (2 tons ammo)
Max armor except legs at 55

The side torsos, though somewhat sparsely armored, are tiny, and can be generally well protected with liberal use of torso twisting.

As has oft been mentioned, the Dragons are non-dairy mechs, and so it's always going to be a challenge to rack up 500+ damage and/or 3 or 4 kills per match in them, but it can be done if the stars align and you've got the chops. Key to successful Dragon piloting (IMO) is situational awareness, fire discipline, and good aim. It's a precision instrument. Think surgical rather than blunt force trauma.

P.S. It rules the slopes of the Caldara.

[Skali]

Hey Guys,
out of the position of Scout Pilot (ECM Raven for tagging shooting in peoples backs..) The Dragon is by far the worst enemy you can face!!! With a good Engine he can almost match your speed and is almost impossible to outmaneuver properly. Of course a good Cat-pilot can insta-kill a light mech but as long as one is careful a good scout can stay out of his cross-air until Lrms or brawler-teammates do the job while he is distracted. As far as other lights - one can always bring the fight to them with a decent chance of survival.

Both of these Options are invalid when spoted by a fast Dragon - so: Yes use Dragons as Much as possible even get a Tag so you can do a Scouts job when the option arises...

Hope to have you in my team when we meet on the battlefield I eat Cats for breakfast...

[NRP]

I ran my Fang last night for the first time in a while (been grinding assaults). Wow, what fun.

XL350 (104 kph)
Gauss (2T ammo)
3 MLs
SRM6 (1T ammo)

I had forgotten just how much the gauss rifle wrecks stuff. Heat is not even a consideration on this thing.

[1453 R]

A good compromise for Flame/1C pilots is the AC10 rather than the Gauss rifle (or, apparently, cutting a laser for the Gauss like NRP did). The AC10 only does two-thirds of the damage of the Gauss rifle, but it also allows the pilot to use a much higher-rated engine. My own Flame can take a standard AC10 alongside the four medium lasers and an SRM4 and still be hoofing along on its 350XL and near-max armor. I only have to downgrade the launcher because my Flame's got both endo steel and ferro armor, need to produce a critical slot from somewhere for the slightly larger autocannon. If yours doesn't, you can kick up an extra fifteen kph with the slightly smaller gun.

As Skali noted, a good Dragon pilot (which I am not, but I'm doing my best to learn) is just about the worst thing a light 'Mech can run into. I'm always out cruising for cap points in Conquest mode for just that reason - even as a ****-poor Dragon pilot, I can typically get there in time to force most any runner except a Raven off said cap point and reverse the capture before they quite get a chance to finish it off. The higher engine ratings also allow the 'Mech to act as something of a makeshift scout - I can and have buzzed the edges of dangerous areas to tell my team what, if anything, is in them. You're not a start-of-the-game scout, but you can figure out where enemies have taken themselves off to mid-match just fine. And in my case, at least, pick some poor fool to harass and inform my team I've got solid LoS on *Bad Guy* and would anyone with LRMs please make him hate his life?

It's a very flexible chassis, there's a lot to like about it.

Edited by 1453 R, 05 February 2013 - 03:16 PM.