74 replies to this topic

[armyof1]

I'm a really new Dragon user (1C with UAC5, SRM6 and 4ML) and used to pilot mainly HBK-4SP (2xSRM6 and 2ML, 2MPL). I find that the playing style is fairly similar going from how I played the Hunchback to the Dragon, with the difference that the Dragon with the bigger XL engines (I run a 350XL) without speed tweak is even faster than my 4SP with speed tweak. The bigger engine also means your Dragon can turn quite fast which is great when doing guerilla warfare amidst buildings.

The Dragon performs best when outflanking opponents, get to cover before they can fire back, find another angle to approach and hit them hard, and be outta there and moving on to the next target. This kind of playstyle demands that you learn the maps really well and knowing where there is cover and forming a plan to get away before you engage also demands that you always think ahead. And having to run and turn a lot and firing while moving pretty fast in sometimes quite tight quarters with a big mech, means you have to learn to control the Dragon well because getting caught running into buildings instead of around it can get you heavily damaged.

I'm very much still learning so sometimes I make a big mistake and run too deep into enemy territory and pay for it, other times I'm doing well and picking off a couple of guys. Most of all I just like playing with faster mechs that can still have decent firepower.

Edited by armyof1, 08 February 2013 - 12:32 PM.

[Skadi]

Quad PPC flame is one of the more fun mechs I've ever created

[Selfish]

These days I usually play my flame when I need cash/speed fix. Unlike before upgrades, you can get away with STD engine builds now (AC/10 Striker, AC/20 lulz) without skimping too much on speed. I play in small groups, and pugging is perfectly fine with an XL. XL's let you bring more toys/more ammo with better speed.

If you aren't familiar with striking you'll have trouble in the Dragon. You aren't meant to square off on a target head on, or to be the center of attention--though you're better suited to it than most mediums. You have a decent alpha and enough speed/armor to flank targets and still disengage if things go south. Rear armor isn't a high number on any mech sans stock Awesomes, and you can kill a distracted Atlai in a couple salvos. Keep yourself annoying and doing damage, then disengage when you take attention to waste opponents' time. You're not really tanking this way, but you are creating windows of opportunity where your allies can get better/more shots on your opponents.

[UnseenFury]

2shade4x

I tried flanker Dragon just for you, 2x srm4s, uac5 and er ppc or large laser. It was absolutely horrible, with how bad the current maps are I was only able to get in someone's back and then lose all my armor on hand and side torso or get my CT to red. It is idiotic, Dragon doesn't work at close range.

On the other hand, here is my FIRST EIGHT games in my xl340, FF, ES, 10 DHS, Gauss+4tons, ER PPC build while sniping:




See the difference?

[1453 R]

Oh, knock it off already! Measure your e-peens somewhere else! If you like to play the Dragon as a fast sniper then do that and stop worrying about what folks say about it, eh? You do that, I'll keep running my lasers-n-shotgun Flame, Shade can do whatever he wants, and everybody's content, ne? Hurling screenshots at each other like shuriken in a ninja duel doesn't do a damn thing to promote discussion.

Selfish: Any particular tips with the machine? I've been working on buffing up my Flame skills for a while now and I still die as often as not. I'm new enough to know that half of it's the fact that I'm a terrible shot, but I ain't giving up on the thing yet. Heh...not after thirty dollars' worth of MC and nearly ten million C-bills of upgrades, at least. Stupid XL engines...

[Oni Ralas]

Paran01ac, on 09 February 2013 - 08:04 AM, said:

2shade4x I tried flanker Dragon just for you, 2x srm4s, uac5 and er ppc or large laser. It was absolutely horrible, with how bad the current maps are I was only able to get in someone's back and then lose all my armor on hand and side torso or get my CT to red. It is idiotic, Dragon doesn't work at close range.

SRM4? No man... If you're fitting all of that, you aren't fitting the right engine. If you're getting hit, then you are moving in too early, or not dissengaging in time. You need to be aware of not only the enemy position but your friends -- you dive in and you are going to take a bunch of FF if you aren't careful.

Simple speed punter:

XL350
4mlas
UAC5
SRM6


UAC5 engaged at range, spam as desired to keep cover fire on. When starting attack run -- full throttle at target's rear, unload missile salvo (strait torso) under 150m, uac5 spam and 1-2 volly of mlas. Trottle 70% while tight bank right, roll on throttle. Get behind over, throttle down heavy and see which way target is turning. If pursue, circle cover and re-engage as desired or break off. If you have friends, train the mob into their line and break right out of friendly fire. If you are going for a frontal assault on wounded target, keep the UAC blaring as much as possible on the damaged component while you line up your secondary scatter shot (SRM) and the MLAS pinpoint. UAC will rattle someone pretty well, just don't rely on it as your only wep as she *will* jam on an attack run.

You may swap UAC for LBX if you are a tad more suicidal and/or good with your shot placement. I've jacked more players up at range with a flame than any other mech - including the cheese splatcat. There is much to be said for someone able to make a dragon dance, and knowing when and how to hit someone. Currently I play 4ppc build flame and take pride at nailing lights at full speed 600m out with an alpha.

[UnseenFury]

2Oni Ralas

Dude, any good player will r4p3 Dragon up close, I know 95% of players are bad but still... I'll try what you suggested nonetheless.

What is your 4ppc loadout? Regular ppcs? Not ER? What engine? xl300 with 13 DHS?

[De La Fresniere]

I tried the 4xPPC Flame and, now that the heat has been improved so much, it's actually not that bad (though, compared to 4xLL, the 8 additional tons will *murder* your heat dissipation). I killed a cheesepult in less than 10 seconds with a triple 40-damage barrage right into its CT, just before it could get close enough to fire. However, it's annoying to constantly have to wait on heat and I also found the minimum range to be an issue more often than I'd have expected.

I really can't find anything better than 4xLL.

Edited by De La Fresniere, 09 February 2013 - 11:11 AM.

[Jeremiah Battleborn]

Imagine a dragon as a centurion that has better everything. Depending on your loadout, engine, and general strategy, you can do just about anything, it's a high performance jack-of-all-trades. Staying mobile is good advice, as is plinking from a distance, but a dragon can handle brawls fairly well as long as it has teammates to attract the hits.

I rock 2 ERLL, a MPL, and an U/AC 5 with great success, as versatility is often underestimated. It also completely horrifies the enemies light mechs when you are able to chase them down with a heavy.

[Zanathan]

When you compare a Dragon with a Cataphract, the number of hardpoints are very close (summary below). So all this 'less' firepower doesn't make much sense.

Dragon
1C: 4E, 1B, 1M
1N: 2E, 2B, 2M
5N: 2E, 3B, 1M

Cataphract
1X: 5E, 1B, 0M
2X: 3E, 1B, 2M
3D: 4E, 2B, 0M
4X: 2E, 4B, 1M

If someone can tell me I'm missing something .. I think it's unfounded regarding the underpowered. Under armoured? Sure, but I wouldnt see underpowered.

[1453 R]

The Cataphract gets ten extra tons to fill those hardpoints with and does not generally need to upgrade its engine, thus gaining even more additional tonnage. It's more easily able to carry multiple autocannons or Gauss rifles and is unmistakeably better at brawling and bringing heavy firepower to the field. This, in the eyes of many pilots, invalidates the Dragon due to its weight class - heavy 'Mechs aren't allowed to be bad at brawls, as many pilots see that improved firepower as one of the main roles of the heavy 'Mech weight class.

There's a very binary view rather prevalent on the forums, from what I've seen of them - either you're a big 'Mech, designed to get mixed up in the scrum and slug it out with other big 'Mechs like Men, or you're a fast 'Mech, whose goals are nebulous and generally considered unimportant. Lip service is paid to things like scouting, harassing or fast-cap, but unless your entire team is dead in a Conquest match save for one Jenner, folks don't generally pay attention to those things unless they're operating as a prebuilt unit with designated scout-strikers.

Your average PugWarrior generally believes there's one goal in a MWO match - bring destruction upon the enemy - and one way of achieving that goal. Dragons aren't great at that particular way of achieving the goal, and so they're considered to suck.

[Zanathan]

I've actually done a comparison between the Dragon and Phract variants (as I pilot both) and they are on par in terms of what you can actually load.

DRG 1C: 4E, 1B, 1M
CTF 3D: 4E, 2B, 0M

DRG 1N: 2E, 2B, 2M
CTF 2X: 3E, 1B, 2M

DRG 5N: 2E, 3B, 1M
CTF 4X: 2E, 4B, 1M

* The 1X is the only exception as there is obviously only 3 dragon variants

And using the same standard engine the alpha damage only varies by approximately 3-9 depending on loadout. The armour is similar, the only major difference is an additional 8 in the torse and 4 in each of the other sections. To me they both suffer from the same "hit me right here" problem with their torsos. So there isn't that big a difference as many are actually claiming yet with an equivalent engine the Dragon will always run faster.

The only bonus the phract has is some variants like the 4X and 3D allow for mounting dual gauss where the dragons have no equivalent.

I do believe a lot of the arguments for dissing the dragon comes from comparing it (and many other mechs for that matter) to the catapult. It is in a league of it's own to be honest as it allows for pure boating and it obviously is FOTM.

[liku]

Lovely slow flame:
Dhs endo ferro xl320 or 300
Gauss 35shots
Lrm10 dont remember the tonnage
4 mlas

Im getting better but i still dont torso roll enough

I love to use the. Lrm10 as a provocation weapon. Usually i engange near cover and from 200 to 400 meters.
I only fire my gauss when i am hundred percent to hit. When i have the opportunity i try to rear as much as possible.
4 mlas is almost as. Much as a stalker 3h minus the missiles.

Ill try to make your advice mine in the battlefield and also buy that 350 xl.

I aslo love my 1 gauss 2 erppc flame :;

Dragon are really a different kind and need time and practice to make use of his advantage

[UnseenFury]

Paran01ac, on 09 February 2013 - 08:04 AM, said:

2shade4x

I tried flanker Dragon just for you, 2x srm4s, uac5 and er ppc or large laser. It was absolutely horrible, with how bad the current maps are I was only able to get in someone's back and then lose all my armor on hand and side torso or get my CT to red. It is idiotic, Dragon doesn't work at close range.

On the other hand, here is my FIRST EIGHT games in my xl340, FF, ES, 10 DHS, Gauss+4tons, ER PPC build while sniping:




See the difference?

Okay, scratch my ER PPC, Gauss build. I found even more FUN one. I bought Flame recently and I love it! Quad PPCs are fun but gives me too much ******** when obvious hit wont register. The thing that you have to calculate in brain actual location of enemy mech's hitbox each time drives me crazy. Also minimum range, so you always have to keep in mind the positions of your friends and stay near them so you can get some help.

Gauss + 4MLas works just fine in 1C, I don't need arm agility because as I said using Dragon in close range is r3tarded and would only work against r3tards.

AC/20 Flame is too slow and too hot making it's stupid to use that way, Hunchback 4H all the way if you want to do AC/20 + 4Mlas.


So that leaves:

Flame with 4LLas 340xl ES FF 101kph and 15 DHS requires heat management skills but not that hot actually
Flame with 4LLas 300xl ES 89kph 19 DHS cooler but significantly (for me) slower.

Keeping enemies at distance and hit and run tactics is MORE FUN in 340xl build.

I'm farming 250k-270k cbills with it!

[TheFlyingScotsman]

Dragons are hands down my favorite heavy class 'mech. Treat them as you would a medium. Keep it near max speed and play Atlas buddy, using heavy right arm or left arm weapons partly hide behind them while blasting. When you lose an arm, switch to the other side of your assault buddy.

Respond to smaller targets and watch your buddy's back. Flank and use hit and run tactics around brawls.

Edited by TheFlyingScotsman, 12 February 2013 - 01:24 PM.