74 replies to this topic

[Jel]

1453 R, on 05 February 2013 - 03:15 PM, said:

A good compromise for Flame/1C pilots is the AC10 rather than the Gauss rifle (or, apparently, cutting a laser for the Gauss like NRP did). The AC10 only does two-thirds of the damage of the Gauss rifle, but it also allows the pilot to use a much higher-rated engine. My own Flame can take a standard AC10 alongside the four medium lasers and an SRM4 and still be hoofing along on its 350XL and near-max armor. I only have to downgrade the launcher because my Flame's got both endo steel and ferro armor, need to produce a critical slot from somewhere for the slightly larger autocannon.

With 13 DHS, 2 tons of AC/10 ammo and 1 ton of SRM ammo, 8 points shy of full armor. It seems a good build, and possibly superior to the GR build, as the non-explody autocannon may extend the life of the mech, and also has a better ROF (2.50 vs the GR 4.00). The AC/10 also has a nice 'ching!' sound effect to let you know when it's ready to fire again.

Edited by Jel, 05 February 2013 - 03:50 PM.

[Mavairo]

Crack Speed, decent armor. high accuracy capability.

What's not to love?

At the Starting engine, you're as fast as a vomit kitty with it's biggest engine. Correction. Still faster

Edited by Mavairo, 05 February 2013 - 10:47 PM.

[Karl Streiger]

I can't stand to see the new and larger map.
More room for maneuvers = not every fight will turn into a slugfest at short range.
Range and speed would be a acceptable trade for pure damage.

Edited by Karl Streiger, 06 February 2013 - 06:36 AM.

[Orzorn]

SC1P1O, on 05 February 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

I never thought of using that, How does it help you out? is it a must have for a dragon? (pilot look)

I would consider it essential to a long and healthy life in a Dragon. If you don't, you're going to be pointing that bulbous torso at your enemies all day, and then wondering why you died so fast. Turn away and use that 40 degree arm movement to take your shots.

Now, obviously, don't do this all the time, as it cuts out 3 hardpoints (on a 1C) worth of firepower. You just need to know that, if your center torso is getting damaged badly, to turn away and use your arms to your advantage. No other heavy mech has the amount of arm twist that the Dragon does (as above, the Dragon has 40 degree arm twist. The next highest is a mere 20 degrees for the Cataphract).

[Orzorn]

1453 R, on 05 February 2013 - 03:15 PM, said:

A good compromise for Flame/1C pilots is the AC10 rather than the Gauss rifle (or, apparently, cutting a laser for the Gauss like NRP did). The AC10 only does two-thirds of the damage of the Gauss rifle, but it also allows the pilot to use a much higher-rated engine. My own Flame can take a standard AC10 alongside the four medium lasers and an SRM4 and still be hoofing along on its 350XL and near-max armor. I only have to downgrade the launcher because my Flame's got both endo steel and ferro armor, need to produce a critical slot from somewhere for the slightly larger autocannon. If yours doesn't, you can kick up an extra fifteen kph with the slightly smaller gun.

You can manage a 360 engine:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...edb99a9660314e7

[1453 R]

You can, and I could have. I settled on the 350XL as being close enough to cap to work while still giving me just enough free tonnage for the equipment I needed. I've got four extra engine DHS on top of my armament, which has been a big help in bad situations and certain maps. I lose about three klicks in the doing, which I considered a fair trade for the extra heat dissipation and how freely it lets me use my lasers even on maps like Caustic.

[Ryebear]

I actually use a range of weapon load outs and engines on my Dragons, I sold the 1N since a second SRM 4 or SSRM isn't worth losing the second laser hard point on my arm. As low a 280XL and as high as 350XL.

I've now Mastered the 1C, 5N and Flame with all elites unlocked on the 1N.

I gotta say, this mech isn't a boat machine like the Catapult and takes getting used to (except 4 LL 1Cs/Flames). But it definitely isn't a total waste of a mech and is unmatched in choosing engagements and taking the long way round to finding the angle to finish off components. The ability to chase down and finish off fleeing mechs is also tremendous, probably only beaten by a Cent 9-A or whatever the fast one is.

It's much harder to use than a Cat or CTF but no less dangerous (though Ill admit a 3 UAC Ilya is probably more fearsome overall).

[Shatterpoint]

Run'n'Gun, it's just a fun mech to play around in. The arms get a lot of range so you can snipe things to the side while firing at something you're charging towards.

[UnseenFury]

Since Dragon was added into the game it was a sniper platform. I'm having the most fun running in 101 kph Dragon with Gauss and ER PPC. When all the bad players in this game wants to close out with you, and you keep them on distance and bombarding them with your sniper weapons.

[Shade4x]

Paran01ac, on 06 February 2013 - 06:17 PM, said:

Since Dragon was added into the game it was a sniper platform. I'm having the most fun running in 101 kph Dragon with Gauss and ER PPC. When all the bad players in this game wants to close out with you, and you keep them on distance and bombarding them with your sniper weapons.

See this is the stuff that annoys me. Not trying to pick on you specificly, but the mentality. It's a heavy mech that goes 107 kph, has great hard points. Yet its a sniper platform. What about the K2... 2x gauss's. Sniper platform. What about Stalker, 6 PPC's? Sniper platform!!! Oh what about a spider... 1 PPC sniper platform. Cataphract? Dual gauss sniper platform. Oh hey, what about an awesome... 4 ppc sniper platform!!!!111

It's not a sniper platform. It's designed as a flanker, as it is the only mech in game (and one of the few in TT) that can have light mech speed with heavy mech armor and can still fit a nasty weapons setup. You can run behind enemy lines and attack from the back with the speed and armor.

This is the same mentality of the guy's who talk about strategy. When you ask them, what strategy they want to use..... it's always SNIPE!!! lets stay back and wait for them to come! Picking the same thing reguardless of the situation is not strategy, nor is picking something to do without taking the situation into account. Sniping is not a strategy. It's something 1 support mech does to pinpoint damaged components and prevent a charge. Watch your next PUG. Notice how many matches you win with all sniper teams and how many you win with a few tanky guys and a charge.

[1453 R]

Depends. How good are the snipers, and how Leeroy are the chargers? Either approach can work just fine - what matters is execution, not choice of base strategy

Dragons can stick-and-move at six hundred meters as easily as they can at two. Nobody says you can't be mobile with a Gauss rifle, some LRMs and a large laser or two. Hell, that route's safer half the time - much less chance of accidentally encountering a Splattercat under someone else's ECM umbrella, or turning a corner and finding a D-DC with your face.

[UnseenFury]

2shade4x

even tho I'm playing this game since the start of July and I'm having 2000 kills with 6 kd after last reset you clearly understand the game better than me.

[Shade4x]

Paran01ac, on 07 February 2013 - 07:15 AM, said:

2shade4x

even tho I'm playing this game since the start of July and I'm having 2000 kills with 6 kd after last reset you clearly understand the game better than me.

So every match you kill 6 out of the 8 mech's? Show a video of you getting 6 kills in a match. Otherwise i'm calling BS. nice try though.

[1453 R]

Now now boys, no need to get rough. I'm sure there's more than enough Dragon for the both of you.

[UnseenFury]

Shade4x, on 07 February 2013 - 01:07 PM, said:

So every match you kill 6 out of the 8 mech's? Show a video of you getting 6 kills in a match. Otherwise i'm calling BS. nice try though.

Are you amurican or something? I had 10 kd before I stop caring about it. There are people with 12 kd stats in their signatures.
Are you complete clueless bad player or something?

This game is easy, I had 8 kills game in a Jenner, I can flash a screenshot with 7 kills in a long wang.

[Kmieciu]

Shade4x, on 07 February 2013 - 01:07 PM, said:

So every match you kill 6 out of the 8 mech's? Show a video of you getting 6 kills in a match. Otherwise i'm calling BS. nice try though.

You don`t have to kill 6 out of the 8 mechs to get 6 KDR. All you have to do is to kill 3 mechs and stay alive, then in the next match you can kill 3 mechs and die. Or have 3 matches, 2 kills in each and die only during the third one.

The Dragon promotes cautions play, because you don`t ever feel overpowered. It`s easy to get 2-3 kills during a match, especially when using a Gauss rifle. When focusing fire on a enemy, you are mist likely to deliver that final blow. I paint my dragon gray to make it as plain an inconspicuous, taking potshots with Gauss and making strafing runs with SRM6 and 4xML. When the enemies try to concentrate fire on me, I just back off and let them chase me back to our main forces.

In a AC20-cat or a splatpult you feel you can take on the world by yourself. Often after a game that I had 5 kills in I feel so cocky that in the next game, I`m the first to die.

The only downside is that at 80 kph a Catapult offers more firepower than a Dragon with better hardpoints and hitboxes. Since Dragon cannot boat light weapons I don`t like to put an engine higher than XL300. You just loose so much firepower.

Edited by Kmieciu, 08 February 2013 - 02:04 AM.

[Shade4x]

Paran01ac, on 07 February 2013 - 08:52 PM, said:

Are you amurican or something? I had 10 kd before I stop caring about it. There are people with 12 kd stats in their signatures.
Are you complete clueless bad player or something?

This game is easy, I had 8 kills game in a Jenner, I can flash a screenshot with 7 kills in a long wang.

I ask for proof off your 6 k/d snipeing dragon, you show me a jpg of 7 kills with a centurion...

Yea i can't argue if someone's signature says there K/D. I'd believe it!

[Shade4x]

Kmieciu, on 08 February 2013 - 02:03 AM, said:

You don`t have to kill 6 out of the 8 mechs to get 6 KDR. All you have to do is to kill 3 mechs and stay alive, then in the next match you can kill 3 mechs and die. Or have 3 matches, 2 kills in each and die only during the third one.

Ahh i get it. So like i could play a DDC Atlas 95% of the time with a premade team and then play like 5% on a dragon and that counts tword the dragon's k/d? I think i'm getting the idea here. Does winning a match in Table Top count tword K/D as well?

Quote

The Dragon promotes cautions play, because you don`t ever feel overpowered. It`s easy to get 2-3 kills during a match, especially when using a Gauss rifle. When focusing fire on a enemy, you are mist likely to deliver that final blow. I paint my dragon gray to make it as plain an inconspicuous, taking potshots with Gauss and making strafing runs with SRM6 and 4xML. When the enemies try to concentrate fire on me, I just back off and let them chase me back to our main forces.

In a AC20-cat or a splatpult you feel you can take on the world by yourself. Often after a game that I had 5 kills in I feel so cocky that in the next game, I`m the first to die.

The only downside is that at 80 kph a Catapult offers more firepower than a Dragon with better hardpoints and hitboxes. Since Dragon cannot boat light weapons I don`t like to put an engine higher than XL300. You just loose so much firepower.

See this is what i don't understand. Sure a A1 catapult has more damage per strike then a dragon, but you can easily pull a very low heat 19 dps build with a dragon with a xl 360. An A1 doesn't have that dps or that speed or accuracy. There is a world of differnece going 90 and 110 in this game. You can easily do Catapult damage in the back.

I don't think the dragon lends itself to "cautious play" any more then any other mech with sniper weapons. Though if you are saying that a dragon rocks at sneaking around the side and shooting the enemy, sure i agree. That tactic is called flanking. If your saying its great at head on head snipeing, then i would like to point out most your enemys will have 2 gauss's or 4 ppc's or 2 ppc's and a gauss. If cautious play means sitting behind a building while your team is getting chopped up so you can get free shots with a single gauss, then i would say cautious sounds more like selfish.

[Adridos]

Shade4x, on 07 February 2013 - 12:42 AM, said:

It's not a sniper platform. It's designed as a flanker, as it is the only mech in game (and one of the few in TT) that can have light mech speed with heavy mech armor and can still fit a nasty weapons setup. You can run behind enemy lines and attack from the back with the speed and armor.

As long as he has a mechlab and knows his stuff, he can build teh mech into whatever he chooses.

And when you consider the Dragon's problem with CT, it is not all that far fetched to make a sniper out of it, altough I agree it's a bit wasting of the potential, it is still a viable build that shines in the right situation.

Also: http://www.sarna.net...i/Huron_Warrior


Oh, and anyone got any tips on the 1N? I'm still running the 1C Gauss/SRM6/4ML build, but I decided to elite the Dragon and would like some suggestions regarding this guy. Obviosuly, I won't get it to match the sheer damage of teh 1C, so I thought about getting a bigger engien or something, could it potentionally work out? Or should I just make a quasi 1C and sell it once I get it elited?

Edited by Adridos, 08 February 2013 - 09:57 AM.

[Hayashi]

The Dragon doesn't operate as a fire support/sniping platform anywhere as well as the Cataphract or Catapult do.

Like the others already mentioned, its main power is in its speed. Its main weaknesses is how huge the CT is as a target.

I'd consider putting the max size XL engine in there as a compulsory requirement to run the Dragon optimally, because in most other situations you should be using the other Heavies instead. Your CT is asking to be shot, so you need to fire sideways/backwards as often as possible. You can spread damage throughout your Mech without losing firepower in ways neither the Cataphract or Catapult can do as effectively. Because of this, putting weapons in the arms also is pretty important. As your CT is huge, don't worry too much about the XL because most of the time you're not getting side-cored, better speed/weaponry will save you far more often. And remember that environmental cover has infinite damage protection, you should constantly be looking for how to shoot people while darting between cover, and you'll live longer that way.

Weight is a severe limitation, so all of the successful Dragon builds I've had so far had energy weapons and a central SRM6 only. Even on the Dragon 5N with 3 ballistics hardpoints, I haven't managed to get any other setup to do as well as a 2 Large Pulse 1 SRM6 setup. On my other 2 Dragons (Flame and... I think the other's a 1C) I use a 4 Medium Pulse and 1 SRM6 setup. With a ping of ~300 no other laser type works as well for me.

With ~300 ping I still can't hit Lights, but I can hit everything else very reliably, very often. Awaiting the anti-lagshield netcode phase III patch - when that one finally comes out, the Dragon can finally hunt Lights as well.

Due to the need to fire with your torso turned very often, utilise cover effectively and position yourself properly, this plays like a cross between a Heavy and a Light (does not benefit from lagshielding like lights do, however). I'd say it's probably one of the hardest Mechs in the entire game to do well in (and something I'll never recommend players try as a first Mech), but a masterful Dragon pilot isn't any less fearsome than a masterful Cataphract pilot. It's just that the learning curve is *very* steep, so the average Dragon pilot will do worse than the average Cataphract pilot.

Edited by Hayashi, 08 February 2013 - 11:08 AM.