440 replies to this topic

[Eric darkstar Marr]

I do not understand the people that can not handle either or those jump sniper catas. I pilot a Raven 3L and can solo them however my main mech I play with nearing one million exp is a STK 5S.

I do 1 of 2 loads on it one is LRM fire support with quad MLs the other is a triple PPC with quad SSRM2s. The only mech I have to fear is an Atlas.

Nothing else on the field bother me even ECM units. It comes down to sticking with one mech mastering it then move on to another mech and mastering your play with it also. Cats are very fragile take out the arms and they are useless the K2 is Side torso hits and it becomes a steaming pile of scrap. If its a guass K2 its even easier to disable.

So the TL;DR there is no problem with them just how you play the game.

Edited by Eric darkstar Marr, 07 February 2013 - 06:25 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Congzilla, on 07 February 2013 - 06:15 AM, said:

The only people that vote no on these polls are the ones running Cats. The chassis is broken, that is why almost every cheese build in the entire game is a Cat.

Interesting....

sooooo.....

why do I spend 90% of my time in a Cataphract or a YLW then? I voted no.

maybe the right outlook would be

"the only people who voted YES on this poll are the ones who are too slow or unskilled to figure out how to beat a lowly Catapult?"

Oh... but THAT would be inflammatory and insulting. Wouldn't it?

[Sifright]

jesus I run those builds, they are mad over powered.

any one sayin otherwise is braindead.

Bishop Steiner, on 07 February 2013 - 06:22 AM, said:

Interesting....

sooooo.....

why do I spend 90% of my time in a Cataphract or a YLW then? I voted no.

maybe the right outlook would be

"the only people who voted YES on this poll are the ones who are too slow or unskilled to figure out how to beat a lowly Catapult?"

Oh... but THAT would be inflammatory and insulting. Wouldn't it?

no it would be wrong and a lie.

[Rauchsauger]

cdlord, on 07 February 2013 - 05:31 AM, said:

As for gauss and ac/20, I think the mech firing two simultaneously should be knocked back a step or two. Kinda like the old WWII battleships. They can fire all their big guns at once, but if moved the boat. Same with SRMs, so much rocket thrust......

This is terrible idea... youll just peak over a ledge - shoot - and be back in cover without fear of retaliation

[Kdogg788]

Not going to go through 14 pages of fluff to say that:

1. Catapults are fine the way they are. I've killed all manner of Catapult with every mech type that I own in all four weight classes. The only mech to fear is the A1 streak when running a non-ECM light, but it's a game of give and take.
2. Why a controversy over jump sniping? It is way more prevalent with Cataphracts anyways. And besides the jumper needs to reaquire the target while in the air, and with all of the terrain relief in this game, chances are that target will be gone. It also opens him up to being flanked.

I'm glad the poll responses have gone the way they have because it seems at one point or another at least half the mechs in this game have been called overpowered, when they clearly aren't, 3L not withstanding.

-k

[3rdworld]

Don't even own a Catapult (other than the founders C1).

They are fine, L2P

[Triggerhippy]

Oh god not another one of these, seriously get a life. Clan tech and some of the bigger and better chassis out theree going to make you cry so hard if the K2 is too much for you. Check out the stats on the annhilator for example, can carry 5 gauss rifles.

[Joseph Mallan]

Sifright, on 07 February 2013 - 06:24 AM, said:

jesus I run those builds, they are mad over powered.

any one sayin otherwise is braindead.

no it would be wrong and a lie.

I kill those builds. Not as often as I used to in my UberArcher, but I kill cats just a little less than I do Atlas. and I kill a lot of Atlas. I don't fear a SRMCat,GaussCat, or ordinary Catapult. I respect some pilots more than others cause They are more skilled, but the build... I can deal with.

[Yankee77]

One comment on the Torso twist:

The reason the Catapult gets a huge torso twist is because it has no arm lateral movement. Its the same reason the YLW has the same. And I'm fairly confident the Jagermech is going to be the same.

And yes, the Stalker still has a minuscule torso twist, but THAT is to balance the ludicrous amount of hardpoints it gets. The Stalker was specifically designed to carry the highest number of hardpoints coupled with tonnage that allows them to load those up with massive weaponry. The narrow twist range is meant to balance that.

Aside from the A1, the Catapults have very reasonable hardpoint layouts. And even the A1 has its hardpoints in vulnerable locations. Not to mention the gigantic cockpit hitbox.


Nowadays, there's only 2 special things about the Catapult: the K2's side-torso ballistics and the A1's 6 missile hardpoints. The K2 is the only mech that can fit 2 AC/20s, but even that is being eclipsed by 4xPPC boats (which can fit in plenty of chassis, including the K2 mind you, but then again the K2's energy hardpoints are very reasonable), while the A1 can boat missiles (but is vulnerable to getting its ears blown off).

Really, nowadays the catapult is not that big a deal. It's an excellent mech, to be sure, with a glaring vulnerability, but its unique capabilities are no longer so "special". They used to be, but as more chassis and systems comes in it becomes clear that the "problems" with the Catapult aren't really related to the Catapult itself, but to the game systems.

Ultimately what is needed is something to encourage weapons diversity in our mechs and tone down boating. Larger maps and objective-based gameplay may go a long way to rectify that, by encouraging mechs to diversify their weaponry (in a fluid situation, with variable range, it might be much better to have a series of mechs that can combine their firepower at all ranges, rather than strict boats that are only useful in specific circumstances, and so forth).

Thank you.

[MustrumRidcully]

Itkovian, on 07 February 2013 - 06:46 AM, said:

One comment on the Torso twist:

The reason the Catapult gets a huge torso twist is because it has no arm lateral movement. Its the same reason the YLW has the same. And I'm fairly confident the Jagermech is going to be the same.

And yes, the Stalker still has a minuscule torso twist, but THAT is to balance the ludicrous amount of hardpoints it gets. The Stalker was specifically designed to carry the highest number of hardpoints coupled with tonnage that allows them to load those up with massive weaponry. The narrow twist range is meant to balance that.

The Hunchback 4P has 9 weapon hard points. It is one of the mechs with arms and an excellent torso twist range.
The Awesome 8Q has 8 weapon hard points. It got arm movement and torso twist movement.

And I don't even want to theorize what will happen when future mechs with lots of hard points will arrive - will they all need to have sucky torso twist ranges?

I'd say it would be better to just buff all the other mechs and add 1 or 2 extra hard points to them if it's that important. (Which I don't think it is.)

[KinLuu]

3rdworld, on 07 February 2013 - 06:37 AM, said:

Don't even own a Catapult (other than the founders C1).

They are fine, L2P

They are very strong, but not overpowered. I agree, it sounds like a L2P issue.
But more likely it is a learn to focus issue.

Do not brawl with a stronger brawler.

[Xenosphobatic]

My $0.02, here goes:

I don't feel as if the K2 is OP at all. It's got it's own advantages and disadvantages, and IMO is not a problem at this point.

The A1 needs a slight torso twist nerf, as it's just got too much range of motion around itself. Couple that with SRMs and it is a 270m+ fight or they win. I'm not saying they need a large directional nerf, they just need a "weak area" that they can't canvas with SRMS.

[Carrioncrows]

I don't have an issue with K2's.

Aim for the head.

I'm sure it sounds easier than it is, but honestly it's really not.

[SI The Joker]

14 pages in, wow I missed the boat on this one!

There's another thread about the A1 specifically... I posted this which generally applies to ALL catapults:

Quote

Largest head hitbox in the game combined with mickey mouse ears? C'mon now.

Just blow the ears off, or shoot for the cockpit.

Nothing wrong with the mech.

The only input I have with regard to the K2 is the locationof the weaponry.

Slide the ballistics into the flappy-dog ears on the K2 and the world will be golden.

[QuantumButler]

Carrioncrows, on 07 February 2013 - 06:56 AM, said:

I don't have an issue with K2's.

Aim for the head.

I'm sure it sounds easier than it is, but honestly it's really not.

Yeah it's so easy to hit the head of a mech that can look behind itself and move at 90 kph with speed tweak and kill you in 1 or two alpha strikes.

Anyone who has luck cockpit killing catapults is either lying, facing awful pilots [90% of the playerbase], or got really lucky and didn't die instantly before the cat overheated becasue again, the pilot is stupid, and was thus able to hit the immobile target.

Edited by QuantumButler, 07 February 2013 - 07:01 AM.

[Andross Deverow]

Catapults dont need a nerf fer cryin out loud. For one thing they are paper for the most part. They arent the quickest on the battlefield either. And anyone that says the A1 is overpowered obviously hasnt piloted one and found out how quickly a few laser blasts can tear off the lightly armored arms rendering them toothless.
It seems to me most of these posts that end up in the forums come from either poor pilots or ******** individuals that dont think about how to tackle a certain mech or one of its variants.

Regards

[QuantumButler]

go to the 3:00 mark or so.

BALANCED JUST SHOOT THE EARS IT'S FINE L2P.

Edited by QuantumButler, 07 February 2013 - 07:13 AM.

[Daenyathos]

A1 should have a slight maneuverability decrease. Maybe decreasing returns of torso twist speed with engine size, or just a decrease in the angle.

K2 I would like to see it maybe twist slower when these large cannons are fit into places where it was first designed for machine guns. It just makes it kind of awkward it moves just as fast with AC20s as Machine guns.

However, I'll admit, I won't really complain if nothing happens. I'm too amused by taking off an ear or two on the A1 and too excited to blow away a cheek on the K2.

Then there's the giant cockpit. I love when either shut down in front of me.

[Karl Streiger]

QuantumButler, on 07 February 2013 - 07:12 AM, said:

BALANCED JUST SHOOT THE EARS IT'S FINE L2P.

... i feel cheated...the A1 died with its ears still intact...and your ears were there too.
Although it is a real pitty that those CN9 didn't used a LBX....

Edited by Karl Streiger, 07 February 2013 - 07:57 AM.

[HiplyRustic]

Congzilla, on 07 February 2013 - 06:15 AM, said:

The only people that vote no on these polls are the ones running Cats. The chassis is broken, that is why almost every cheese build in the entire game is a Cat.

Do you know the problem with using absolute statements like that?

No? Ok, I'll help.

As soon as one single solitary example comes up that is counter to your statement you are completely, publicly, and utterly wrong.

Hi there, I'm that example I was just talking about...and you are...well...you know.