440 replies to this topic

[QuantumButler]

MaddMaxx, on 07 February 2013 - 08:50 AM, said:

What evidence? The enemy team left you alone most of the time, never once focused down "the BIG threat" and you spent a lot of time running about.

Re-do that video against a "good team", and see how you make out with your 270m range. Even I could kill 3+ enemy mechs in a freaking Stalker, if the other Team simply left me alone as well.

I like all your video proof you posted to back up your statements.

Wait, you didn't post any.

Also it's not me it's someone else from Kong solo dropping in the pug ghetto.

Edit: New page new repost of the video.

Edited by QuantumButler, 07 February 2013 - 08:55 AM.

[Justa Dogtrooper]

[SI The Joker]

I have to say that video was a really bad example.

1. The two mechs that should have stopped that catapult failed miserably. He was already cockpit shot... the two mechs just stood there and let the catapult kill them.

2. The rest of the mechs this catapult attacked were already cored and/or nearly dead.

[BanditRaptor]

wonator, on 07 February 2013 - 08:49 AM, said:

Its not that good, just ppl are too stupid.

No, it is too good. It's ruining the game's balance, much like the long-derided AC20/Gauss cats.

MaddMaxx, on 07 February 2013 - 08:50 AM, said:

What evidence? The enemy team left you alone most of the time, never once focused down "the BIG threat" and you spent a lot of time running about.

Re-do that video against a "good team", and see how you make out with your 270m range. Even I could kill 3+ enemy mechs in a freaking Stalker, if the other Team simply left me alone as well.

A Catapult is a support mech, it's not meant to be a brawler and never has been, yet here it excels in high damage hit and run like no other. Just because he doesn't fight 1v1 trading shots like an "honorable clanner" doesn't mean he isn't being effective here, and insanely so.

[w0rm]

QuantumButler, on 07 February 2013 - 08:53 AM, said:

snipped

Your fellow KONG buddy joins the ghetto with a splatcat and pretty much roflstomps the usual failbrigade. I seem to miss the point where this proves that the A1 is OP.

Edited by w0rm, 07 February 2013 - 09:04 AM.

[wonator]

Until stat based matchmaking, there is no overpowered mech. You basicaly get good ppl and win or idiots (70% of games) and lose. Catapult is just ****** stomper, nothing else.

Edited by wonator, 07 February 2013 - 09:08 AM.

[WhiteCatInsurgency]

Make the catapults cockpit extremely vulnerable in even mid range combat. There is a reason its called a "CATAPULT" and comes equipped with jump jets for evasion.

Fire and move, fire and move. Don't get caught. None of this toe to toe with an atlas BS. That should be an instant blown out cockpit. Otherwise change its name to "Battering Ram". Then I've got no complaints.

[w0rm]

WhiteCatInsurgency, on 07 February 2013 - 09:07 AM, said:

Make the catapults cockpit extremely vulnerable in even mid range combat. There is a reason its called a "CATAPULT" and comes equipped with jump jets for evasion.

Afaik it allready has the largest cockpit hitbox compared to the rest of the mechs.

Edited by w0rm, 07 February 2013 - 09:14 AM.

[Zyllos]

That Guy, on 06 February 2013 - 08:25 PM, said:

rather than treating the symptoms, we need to treat the causes.

the biggest problem now is with SRM stacking. what that means is all launchers fire from the same missile tubes at the same time. so 6 tubes are launching 18 missiles in a very tight and compact formation. this gives grouped SRMs a huge advantage because the surface area is so small concentrating damage. each launcher needs to launch from different tubes. and if not enough tubes are available, fire sequentially, like it currently is handled for large launchers. right now the atlas DC can fire 18 missiles (SRM) out of 6 tubes. the cent9-A can fire 18 missiles out of 10. the A1 can fire 18 missiles out of 15 (in the space of 6).

the same applies for staked autocannons. if the model only has one weapon port, the shots need to be fired sequentially (automatic but rapid chain fire, kinda how the UAC instant doubletap works now)

...

This is a HUGE problem, the multiple weapons firing from the same weapon port. I complained and explained the issues about this months ago.

[Malevolent Twitch]

I don't know. I ran around in a Hunchie 4P for a couple hours the other night after I shoehorned 4 Large Lasers into the right torso. All I did that night was remove ears. A1's didn't seem to trouble me much. And as far the "ridiculous" torso twist is concerned, that just means anyone has shots on said ears no matter where their legs happen to be pointed.

[Kylere]

Congzilla, on 07 February 2013 - 06:15 AM, said:

The only people that vote no on these polls are the ones running Cats. The chassis is broken, that is why almost every cheese build in the entire game is a Cat.

So, 80% of all players run cats huh?

I wish someone would tell that to all the ECM lights I keep seeing.

[MaddMaxx]

QuantumButler, on 07 February 2013 - 08:53 AM, said:

I like all your video proof you posted to back up your statements.

Wait, you didn't post any.

Also it's not me it's someone else from Kong solo dropping in the pug ghetto.

Edit: New page new repost of the video.

Sorry but you missed my point, your Post had no, none, zip, nada, zilch actual "Proof" in it. It matter not "who" was left alone in the Cat.
What you need, to actually state you have proof, is actual "real proof" that that Mech would do as well against a Team, and not running amuk in the "Pug ghetto"? Really... ghetto? (Holy Smokes Batman)

[Greyfyl]

Broceratops, on 06 February 2013 - 08:21 PM, said:

low elo players dont know to start shooting these things when they're far away + have crappy loadouts that can't do any damage when they get up close, so they have no chance against the mighty catbros

these things are not that effective in 8v8s. they're okay, but its not like teams with 4 ac/20 cats are winning anything. any significant nerf and nobody will use them competitively.


torso twist won't fix anything because most people complaining are not being out maneuvered by k2s and a1s. they're just letting them walk up and then taking it all in the face point blank.

edit:
I HAVE USED THE FIRST LOW ELO CATEGORIZATION IN MWO! SCREENSHOT THIS THREAD FOR THE ARCHIVES

Yes, and because in pug matches you often have no scouting to speak of, you often come around a corner and find yourself up against a dual ac-20 or 6xsrm6 cat. Just like I came around a corner last night in my undamaged centurion to get one shotted by you in your cat. Funny how that works.

Things that are fine in the world of organized 8-mans can still be utterly broken in the hands of the general playerbase. This shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone.

[Kdogg788]

Zyllos, on 07 February 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

This is a HUGE problem, the multiple weapons firing from the same weapon port. I complained and explained the issues about this months ago.

Technically since the Catapult can carry LRM20s, they consider it as having 20 "tubes" per arm, therefore able to fire all 18 of its SRMs in the arm at once. A good balancing measure would be to force the Catapult to fire in 6 SRM bursts, similar to how an Atlas fires LRMs, therefore eliminating the massive alpha potential.

The main issue here is that most players when facing an A1 do not do the obvious, which is knock off the ears. You can halve his DPS with one ear gone, and then make him useless by taking out the other. Direct fire weapons work wonders here.

-k

[Codejack]

My rule of thumb is, if no one has ever said, "Oh no, we don't have XXXXXX in our group, we might as well just quit now," then XXXXXX is not overpowered.

ECM is overpowered.

No chassis is overpowered.

Other things are in-between.

[QuantumButler]

Kdogg788, on 07 February 2013 - 09:42 AM, said:

Technically since the Catapult can carry LRM20s, they consider it as having 20 "tubes" per arm, therefore able to fire all 18 of its SRMs in the arm at once. A good balancing measure would be to force the Catapult to fire in 6 SRM bursts, similar to how an Atlas fires LRMs, therefore eliminating the massive alpha potential.

The main issue here is that most players when facing an A1 do not do the obvious, which is knock off the ears. You can halve his DPS with one ear gone, and then make him useless by taking out the other. Direct fire weapons work wonders here.

-k

didn't you see?

Someone tried to shoot his ears off in the video, twice, it didn't work, because he vaporaized them before they did more than 20 points of damage.

You try shooting off 60HP ears when you take 90 damage per alpha from the catapult, who might even be flying and shooting missiles straight down onto your head, see how "easy" it is.

[Codejack]

QuantumButler, on 07 February 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

You try shooting off 60HP ears when you take 90 damage per alpha from the catapult, who might even be flying and shooting missiles straight down onto your head, see how "easy" it is.

I do it all the time.

If you can't outrun it, you had better be able to outgun it, or you have just built a poor mech.

If you get caught in close quarters, well, that's partially your own fault and partially PGI's fault for making such an unbalanced game.

[Bytemeister]

My two cents on this if anyone care.

When streak ravens were "op" I made one, and it just didn't work for me. I had a similar experience with the gausskat. The reason why people think these builds are overpower is the fact that they fight them in the wrong place. You don't fight a raven in the city, he'll out maneuver you and make those srm2's you disregarded hurt real bad. You don't fight a K2 in an alley because he'll tear your nuts off. The fact is, if these builds kill you, it's because you tried to take them on in their element. They out planned you in their loadout, and they outplayed you on the map and you deserved to die. Yes, I have been killed by them, but I never yell about their builds being OP, I just tell them "Nice shot" or "well played" and I consider what I did to end up fighting on their turf.

I feel like this is becoming my mantra but remember that the game is still in beta. BETA. If you really think the build is overpowered, don't whine to the forums about it and wait for a divine dev to alter the rules of the universe so you can get killed by something else. Instead, why don't you make your own OP build, when the devs see 16 k2's facing off on a regular basis, then they'll know something went awry.

[HellHat]

I was once in a match where my entire team was made up of heavies and assaults. Three Atlases, one Cataphract, one Ilya, an Awesome and two Dragons (one of which I was piloting) decided to all go around the right side of the map and meet the enemy team head on. When the two teams collided, our team swept right over half of the enemy team and it seemed that victory was assured. That is, until we came across two Stalkers and a Catapult A1 who were all set to long range death mode with something like 2-3 LRM-20s each. Within five minutes I was dead along with over half of our team and the only mechs left standing were the Cataphract, the Ilya, and the Awesome. Though we did win, it was annoying as f*** to keep getting hit from across the map and not be able to do anything about it.
That being said, that one instance was more a match making fail than anything else. Had we been matched with a couple of 3Ls or any other light with a decent pilot, we might have actually won the match with a lot less casualties.

Moral of the story:
A1 nerf- Nay
Matchmaking fix- Yea

[EvilCow]

AC20pults and gausspults are not really a problem, both have huge weaknesses: slow the first and a weapon that explodes if you sneeze on it the other.

The srmpult is fast, jumps, has no ammo problems, kills in 2 shots.

totally balanced