440 replies to this topic

[w0rm]

Elkarlo, on 07 February 2013 - 01:21 AM, said:

When ELO comes the Splattapult will be putt into it's place. Against experienced players it is nearly useless.

This.

[MustrumRidcully]

Karl Streiger, on 07 February 2013 - 01:19 AM, said:

Riposte:
is a HeroMech - with heavy modifications

In a computer game, I am the hero. I'll build my own Butterbee. Or Splatapult.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 07 February 2013 - 01:25 AM.

[Kobold]

Karl Streiger, on 07 February 2013 - 01:19 AM, said:

Riposte:
is a HeroMech - with heavy modifications

Every single one of us is allowed to have a similar level of modification. We're all heroes.

[Eddrick]

OpCentar, on 07 February 2013 - 01:22 AM, said:

Oh and give us a damn 75t heavy already PGI! the main reason why the Catapult is the best heavy isn't because it's good - it's because the Dragon and the Cataphract are worse! once we get a 75 tonner then the 10 more tons will make even the splat 'Cat A1 build unattractive.

I don't realy want to bump this anymore. But, I had to put this here.

http://www.sarna.net...ton_BattleMechs A desent sized list of 75 ton Mechs. Take your pick.

[Stormwolf]

Eddrick, on 07 February 2013 - 01:29 AM, said:

I don't realy want to bump this anymore. But, I had to put this here.

http://www.sarna.net...ton_BattleMechs A desent sized list of 75 ton Mechs. Take your pick.

Most of those won't be available for years.

[Karl Streiger]

MustrumRidcully, on 07 February 2013 - 01:24 AM, said:

In a computer game, I am the hero. I'll build my own Butterbee. Or Splatapult.

Kobold, on 07 February 2013 - 01:26 AM, said:

Every single one of us is allowed to have a similar level of modification. We're all heroes.

I knew that this would come.
me hero - me SRM catapult
.. but i won't give in

neighter the C1, the C4 or the A1 were build to carry SRM because
SRM launchers don't have flaps

[Kobold]

Karl Streiger, on 07 February 2013 - 01:33 AM, said:

neighter the C1, the C4 or the A1 were build to carry SRM because
SRM launchers don't have flaps

As soon as you allow any customization, the "intent" of a mech design is a pointless argument.

[Harmin]

I think there are two main problems.

1. The mechs are too customisable. In effect, we all drive Omni mechs. Inner sphere mechs in my view should be fairly rigid in their weapons layouts. Or there should be significant costs to pay when deviating from it. Right now it's a bit silly, but in my opinion it affects balance only in so far that it lowers the skill levels of the players who don't have to learn how to effectively fight a mech balanced to have both short and long range capabilities, instead preferring to narrowly focus on one tactic and one tactic alone and stick to it no matter what.

2. There's no mechanic to address the physical stresses caused by weapons of huge tonnage. Take the dual-AC20 cat, 28 tons that high up in a 75-ton chassis should make it a very wobbly affair when moving. There's no mechanism in place to simulate that. Also the actuators of a mech's arm should increase in tonnage/slots the heavier/larger the weapon which is placed in the arm. And recoil should be taken into effect more strongly. A light mech shooting an AC20 should be knocked on its arse, a medium mech wobble and a heavy mech shooting two should most definitely suffer a strong wobble as well.

So I don't think the Catapult per se is what needs tweaking. Just the game physics.

Edited by Harmin, 07 February 2013 - 01:38 AM.

[Stormwolf]

Kobold, on 07 February 2013 - 01:34 AM, said:

As soon as you allow any customization, the "intent" of a mech design is a pointless argument.

^This

It's not like your average player is going to have access to Technical Readouts anyway.

[M0oP0o]

Stormwolf, on 07 February 2013 - 01:38 AM, said:

It's not like your average player is going to have access to Technical Readouts anyway.

We should nerf Technical Readouts, they are causing way to many problems.

[Karl Streiger]

Kobold, on 07 February 2013 - 01:34 AM, said:

As soon as you allow any customization, the "intent" of a mech design is a pointless argument.

Why this?
Why isn't it possible with the upcomming Perks and Quirks to keep the intent allive.
When the Catapult becomes a superior LRM - because of those Perks and Quirks - it encourage the player to stay in this role. However you may still be able to build a SRM boat - but for some cost, because it is now more difficult to use it.

At all...the A1 becomes less a problem, since player start to mob them into pieces... nice situation yesterday... all mechs were fighting ... then a single A1 arrived and tried to get into the flank...8 mechs switched their targets at once...

M0oP0o, on 07 February 2013 - 01:42 AM, said:

We should nerf Technical Readouts, they are causing way to many problems.

you can burn all books in the world, but leave me my TROs

[Ewigan]

I dunno, but wouldn't be the solution for many problems with the A1 (and tons of other rocket mechs) to finally stop stacking?

Right now, you have X rocket tubes. You can launch Y*X rockets at a time!
And that definitely shouldn't be the case.

As an Example: My cent (AL) has 10 rocket tubes.
He SHOULD shoot only 10 rockets at a time.
What he does if i use one LRM10.
With one LRM20 he shoots 10 - 10.
With 2 LRM10s he shoots 20!
If he would have a 3rd Rocket hardpoint 30 and so on....

I do not know hoch much Rocket tubes the A1 has, i guess it are 2*15. (because of the stock loadout of 2 LRM15).
So an A1 could fire 2 launchers a side at once, and the 3rd in a halfway shot.

2 * (15+3).

what means that of the 36 rockets 6 would come a bit later.

that should help a bit, right?

[TexAce]

Please people this is like the 10th vote on this topic and EVERY TIME the majority voted NO to any nerfs. It's fine how it is now, there are several other builds that deserve much more respect than cats.

And I say this without ever piloting an cat in my life!

Edited by TexAss, 07 February 2013 - 01:52 AM.

[Muffinator]

Vassago Rain, on 06 February 2013 - 08:21 PM, said:

Indeed, it was causing problems months and months ago, back when I first made this account. Before I even bought founders. Catapults have needed an overhaul for as long as the game's existed, but they still haven't gotten one.

Rubbish. Catapults are fine. They can take a heavy weapon loadout yes... BECAUSE THEY ARE HEAVY MECHS.

4AC5 phracts are a far nastier opponent any day than splat/whatever cats. They have so many weaknesses in any boating config (range, hitbox size being most important).

[Kobold]

Ewigan, on 07 February 2013 - 01:49 AM, said:

I dunno, but wouldn't be the solution for many problems with the A1 (and tons of other rocket mechs) to finally stop stacking?

No one seems to be complaining about people with too many flamers, or too many LB10Xs. No one is complaining about someone mounting too many AC2s or machine guns.

If too much of a specific thing is too good, that means that specific thing alone in isolation is probably also too good. See, e.g., Streak SRM-2.

[MustrumRidcully]

Karl Streiger, on 07 February 2013 - 01:47 AM, said:

Why this?
Why isn't it possible with the upcomming Perks and Quirks to keep the intent allive.
When the Catapult becomes a superior LRM - because of those Perks and Quirks - it encourage the player to stay in this role. However you may still be able to build a SRM boat - but for some cost, because it is now more difficult to use it.

That idea I like, however. Even if I am a hero.

[Thorn Hallis]

The last time a certain variant was changed (i.e. "nerfed") was in closed beta. So I don't expect anything to change, no matter the number of topics poppin' up now and then.

[KinLuu]

The Catapult is fine, it needs no nerfs.

[Kobold]

Karl Streiger, on 07 February 2013 - 01:47 AM, said:

When the Catapult becomes a superior LRM - because of those Perks and Quirks - it encourage the player to stay in this role. However you may still be able to build a SRM boat - but for some cost, because it is now more difficult to use it.

Why does a mech have to stay in a specific role, besides your normative belief that it "should"? This is an entirely different argument, if you want to have it. I'm happy to engage in it, but it is outside the scope of a balance thread.

As for balance: no one is complaining about large laser cats. No one is complaining about LBX K2s. No one is complaining about 4xML, 2xSRM C1s. Heck, no one is even complaining about LRM or streak cats since the ECM nerf stick hit them. So clearly the problem is not Catapults in general, nor even Catapults in specific roles. It is only about the 6x6 (or 4x6/2x4) A1.

If that is the case, the only difference is that the 6x6 has SRMs. Ergo, the problem is the SRMs.

[Stormwolf]

Kobold, on 07 February 2013 - 02:07 AM, said:

Why does a mech have to stay in a specific role, besides your normative belief that it "should"? This is an entirely different argument, if you want to have it. I'm happy to engage in it, but it is outside the scope of a balance thread.

With that reasoning you might as well just make just one mech for every tonnage increment and have the players sort it out.
The mechs were designed and built with specific tasks in mind, making them too flexible will pretty much make future mech types redundant.