440 replies to this topic

[KinLuu]

Norris J Packard, on 07 February 2013 - 02:32 AM, said:

Right, but this isn't MW4 and the Devs have specifically stated from the get-go that they have a distaste for long-range poptaring = wins every game no matter what. [SNIP]

This is correct. But is this a good or a bad thing?

Instead of the long range poptarding of MW4 we now have ~80% of matches decided by brawls.
There should be a balance, at least in my oppinion. There should be maps that favour long range and maps that favour close range. And because you do not know which map you will drop into, there would be a disadvantage to one-sided builds.

[Wolfways]

I think the Catapult has its good and bad points.
Small side torso's make it safer to use an XL engine because the side torso's are rarely destroyed. On the other hand the Catapult also has a huge head hitbox making it easier to kill then most other mechs.

As for the torso twist...well i couldn't care less if it was reduced. I've never understood why a long-range support mech would need such a good torso twist anyway.

Now, the variants:

A1 (and other missile variants) - I've never had much of a problem with this mech. It may do high damage (maybe slightly too high) but that damage is spread, so it's not like it's a great killing mech.
If anything, i'd prefer that LRM's were made competitive again so we might occasionally see this mech performing the intended role. I tried an SRM A1 while working up the XP for my K2 but just didn't like using a brawler mech.

K2 - I have a love/hate relationship with this mech. I used a K2 (PPC's) through CB and still have it (ERPPC's) now, but it's just not a competitive mech imo....until you make ballistics the main weapons instead of energy (not including the LL versions)...and partially because of the huge head hitbox. But i refuse to play one of those ballistic abominations

Actually, it just occurred to me that the torso twist probably is the thing that makes AC20 K2's so good. I was in a match yesterday, in my K2 (ERPPC's) and after the "sniping" phase turned into the brawling range fights i managed to get behind an enemy Atlas and no matter how much he turned and twisted he couldn't get me from behind him and i killed him.
Then i ran straight into an AC20 K2.
No point in trying to get away as he would have just blown me up as i ran away, so i got behind him, but by barely moving his legs and swinging his torso right around he managed to keep me in front of him the whole time and destroyed me in a couple of ct hits.

[JuiceKeeper]

I dont know but personaly i dont see that much problem with those builds. Yes they are dangerous but on the other hand they are really really narrow especialy ac20 and streak boats. They are both close super close combat builds to be most effective otherwise they are not that deadly.
Players just should tag them and tell teammates they in are enemy team to focus fire to take them down asap before they get too close to start to be annoying.

[Uncle Istvan]

Yeah, catapult is tad too good for its weight class. Respectable speed, tiny side torsos hitboxes, jump jets,270 torso twist, ridiculous boating potential,. And those ears that everyone suggests to target aren't that much easier to hit than, say, dragons ballistic arm or 'phracts side torso.

How about reducing torso twist speed by 50-60% (maybe less for C variants)? This way cat remains great support/sniper/assault hunter, but fast mechs gonna get an edge over it in brawl.

[Consta Pation]

KinLuu, on 07 February 2013 - 03:47 AM, said:

This is correct. But is this a good or a bad thing?

Instead of the long range poptarding of MW4 we now have ~80% of matches decided by brawls.
There should be a balance, at least in my oppinion. There should be maps that favour long range and maps that favour close range. And because you do not know which map you will drop into, there would be a disadvantage to one-sided builds.

Welcome to Battle Tech/Mechwarrior. There should be no balance, this game was made for brawling. Devs have messed up missiles, missiles were meant to be long range weapons to weaken your enemy by removing tons of armor, not melting heavily armored mechs in a manner of seconds as it is now.

The K2 does need to be balanced some, their side torso's are almost invisible and thus makes it next to impossible to destroy the weps there in.

Edited by Consta Pation, 07 February 2013 - 04:15 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

Becaus its just the balancing Catapult topic... did they do something with the head hit boxes of the Catapults.
I wasn't able to head shot them for weeks, yesterday i have taken out two of them by head shots.(did you know - that the ballistic weapon on a Atlas - is aiming directly into the cockpit of Cicada and Catapult - when you charge into them)

[bantapoo]

[Joseph Mallan]

Consta Pation, on 07 February 2013 - 04:13 AM, said:

Welcome to Battle Tech/Mechwarrior. There should be no balance, this game was made for brawling. Devs have messed up missiles, missiles were meant to be long range weapons to weaken your enemy by removing tons of armor, not melting heavily armored mechs in a manner of seconds as it is now.

The K2 does need to be balanced some, their side torso's are almost invisible and thus makes it next to impossible to destroy the weps there in.

you sir are just about wrong. By that I mean. An LRM is not meant to melt a Mech, multiple LRMs are able to melt even an Atlas.If 4 Mechs are carrying 2 LRM 10-20s each that is a lot of missiles, targeted on one Mech the life span will be short. We will have a Clan Mech that has 8 LRM15s (Kraken 3).better get used to LRMs raining terror on you now, cause when that beast hits, LRM QQ will become legendary.

[Codejack]

This is just symptomatic of the larger problem:

Armor is too high, so weapon values were adjusted.

This made missiles too good, so they introduced ECM.

ECM didn't fix the problem but has introduced a slew of new balance issues.


Missile tracking needs to be toned down a moderate amount, with Artemis, TAG and NARC working together to make them as good as they are now, but LRMs need to be faster; ECM should counter Artemis, NARC and BAP, but not prevent locks, increase lock time or decrease detection range. This would encourage mixed loadouts and balance each of those systems perfectly.


Edit: This would also balance streaks so that SSRM4s and 6s wouldn't be overpowered; sure, you can have a SSRM6 with Artemis and have it track like streaks do now, but you'll need to devote 2 slots for TAG and NARC (so max 3 SSRM6+Art+TAG+NARC on a Catapult), they will weigh 4.5 tons and require more skill to use.

Edited by Codejack, 07 February 2013 - 05:16 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Missiles are fine where they are.ECM needs fixed to Guardian levels from overpowered Angel though.

[Codejack]

Joseph Mallan, on 07 February 2013 - 05:16 AM, said:

Missiles are fine where they are.

I'm not sure; I see way too many people taken out by missiles in single volleys. I'm not saying that that shouldn't ever happen, but it should be a bit more difficult.

Joseph Mallan, on 07 February 2013 - 05:16 AM, said:

ECM needs fixed to Guardian levels from overpowered Angel though.

It does more than even Angel ECM did; ECM in this game is just stupid.

[Rauchsauger]

just play a stalker with 3 LLAs and 4 SSRM6 + Artemis
you shear a ear of a A1 before it can use its srm and when i comes close enough you can shoot your ssrm as well

[Kylere]

Little children are going to have to accept that I am not going to buy new mechs every month when they decide mine are OP. I have three cats I love. I am just glad I do not have any Ravens.

Frak you very much.

[Stormwolf]

Codejack, on 07 February 2013 - 05:20 AM, said:

It does more than even Angel ECM did; ECM in this game is just stupid.

Yeah, I wonder what the devs would do with Angel ECM.....

[CDLord HHGD]

Wasn't PGI going to add a quirk to all boating mechs that firing the same weapon type would cause additional heat? Won't do anything for the gausscats, but the boomcats and splatcats may be affected....

As for gauss and ac/20, I think the mech firing two simultaneously should be knocked back a step or two. Kinda like the old WWII battleships. They can fire all their big guns at once, but if moved the boat. Same with SRMs, so much rocket thrust......

Another idea I remember being out there was to limit the size of a weapon that could go into the slot originally by 2 sizes. For instance, MGs would only be allowed to be replaced with up to an AC/5. AC/10 could go down to an AC/2 or up to an AC/20... There's some issues with this. I think crit space limitations are the way to go if this is to be considered....

Personally, I just call primary whenever I see one of these builds. Take 'em out quick.

[Codejack]

Stormwolf, on 07 February 2013 - 05:22 AM, said:

Yeah, I wonder what the devs would do with Angel ECM.....

The team with less of it would all just explode at the beginning of the round.

[Stormwolf]

Codejack, on 07 February 2013 - 05:40 AM, said:

The team with less of it would all just explode at the beginning of the round.

That seems likely at this point.

[HiplyRustic]

I have no issues with either chassis. I have issues with my compadres who refuse to focus fire.

[Bishop Steiner]

with the amount of E-Peen bouncing around this topic STILL, one would think folks were having Wang issues, not Cat.

[Congzilla]

The only people that vote no on these polls are the ones running Cats. The chassis is broken, that is why almost every cheese build in the entire game is a Cat.