343 replies to this topic

[chiXnhawk]

What I meant was we retired the K2 and used 3D's in RHoD long before we saw other teams field them.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

chiXnhawk, on 08 February 2013 - 04:02 PM, said:

What I meant was we retired the K2 and used 3D's in RHoD long before we saw other teams field them.

Personally, I was shocked when people didn't instantly put away the K2's when the Phract was made available.

[Protection]

mwhighlander, on 08 February 2013 - 04:08 PM, said:

Personally, I was shocked when people didn't instantly put away the K2's when the Phract was made available.

K2s still have pretty nice side torsos and comparable armour with better convergence. Plus the K2 is the only one to do 2xAC/20.

The Phract vs Pult debate is still pretty debatable.

[Multitallented]

Protection, on 08 February 2013 - 04:12 PM, said:

K2s still have pretty nice side torsos and comparable armour with better convergence. Plus the K2 is the only one to do 2xAC/20.

The Phract vs Pult debate is still pretty debatable.

Course the K2 is still a viable sniper. Don't mind chix, he doesn't know what he's talking about.

[Protection]

Protection, on 08 February 2013 - 04:12 PM, said:

The Phract vs Pult debate is still pretty debatable.

Also, this might be the dumbest thing I've said all week.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Protection, on 08 February 2013 - 04:17 PM, said:

Also, this might be the dumbest thing I've said all week.

Its true, a debate is usually quite debatable

[Multitallented]

Protection, on 08 February 2013 - 04:17 PM, said:

Also, this might be the dumbest thing I've said all week.

[WaddeHaddeDudeda]

Damn, I'm obviously late to the party, but: "Welcome to 13 years ago!" ^^

[Shozen]

I approve of this thread or product.

[JohnoBurr]

This is a cesspool in here.

[Teralitha]

Greyfyl, on 07 February 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

MW4 says hello. I would suggest PGI do something quickly, it should be VERY difficult to aim accurately while using jump jets. If this game devolves into the pop-tarting contests that were prevelant in MW4 I won't be hanging around much longer.

And yes, I saw this tactic being used by 'teams' for the first time last night as well.

Your kidding right? poptarting is a noob tactic and is so easy to beat...... if you cant even beat a poptarting noob.... then yea... this isnt your game.

Note - poptarting is not the same thing as jump sniping. But either way, I am just ... I dont know... I guess amazed that this is even considered a problem here.

Edited by Teralitha, 08 February 2013 - 05:43 PM.

[TheMagician]

Teralitha posted. Time to lock the thread.

[Teralitha]

TheMagician, on 08 February 2013 - 05:40 PM, said:

Teralitha posted. Time to lock the thread.

heh.... my new sig line has arrived.....

[Mongoose Trueborn]

DrxAbstract, on 08 February 2013 - 03:25 PM, said:

This, versus this:
[/font]
First i cant play, then it becomes a conscious decision not to... So which is it? When your statements conveniently mutate to suit your position well... hrm. I've already stated what my situation was, as well as my games logged, etc. Since you have chosen to ignore the usefulness of that information and tried turning a discussion into an e-peen contest there's really not much point in discussing anything with you. But hey, who cares, right? Chances are i've logged a similar amount of, if not more, game time than you in an less than favorable manner (Solo drops). And here you are, attempting to question my ability.

Let's try this:
Son, you've got all kinds of illusions flying about your head if you think you stand a chance against a PUG hardened veteran. Without your team, nobody to watch your back or feed you intel... you're just another grease stain on the grass.

This keeps getting better.

So you think your a pug star and you know everything about 8 mans but you don't still run Pugs and never had done 8 mans?

You sir are my hero.

[Mister Blastman]

There goes everything. HJ showed up...

[Teralitha]

Mister Blastman, on 08 February 2013 - 06:03 PM, said:

There goes everything. HJ showed up...

Thank you! I take this as a compliment, havent heard someone say this since MW4 NBT league days....

[Reggimus]

[Kaziganthi]

mwhighlander, on 08 February 2013 - 03:57 PM, said:

LRM's are still bad. Not OP mind you, they just have a horrible weapon mechanic. Huge raw damage with inherit horrid accuracy and slower then molasis firing speed. Then, conversely when they do all make impact, the sheer damge is enough to one shot light mechs.

LRMs are broken and need to be completely reworked.

I think you got me wrong..I wasn't saying LRMs arent broken, I was referring to the fact that because people couldn't work out tactics to avoid them they called for nerf after nerf after nerf until they were practically useless and that you needed 2-3 LRM boats to make them actually viable, including ECM's ability to lock them out from being able to be fired.

Edited by Kaziganthi, 08 February 2013 - 06:52 PM.

[Steel Claws]

Jump sniping has been done since this game came out. First with Jenners and later with the Raven 4X. The Cataphract 3D does give it a boost in that it can hit harder. It is not OP and it definately is harder to do than hill humping. The recent changes to jump jets make it a little easier to do but it was entirely viable before the patch.

There is no reason for PGI to "do" anything about it. What reason is there to put jump jets on a mech if you aren't going to shoot weapons while in the air. It's a valid tactic and much in vogue at the moment. If it isn't your thing - goody for you - don't tell others how to play.

This whole debate has raged since MW2 but was definately worse in MW4. People who laked the common sense to not run around in the open got crushed by snipers setting behind ridges and screamed foul all the time. They could never understand why they couldn't run into the middle of a group of players and start a COD with one mech and not get pasted by everyone else. No one ever "fixed" it on any mech other than the Catapult in MW4 and that was just a bug fix.

[Jyi]

DrxAbstract, on 07 February 2013 - 11:25 PM, said:

Wasnt aware providing tactical alternatives was trolling. Do you play on the floor? A stool perhaps? Otherwise, you're the just as much an armchair general as i am since, you know, you're not actually out fighting with the troops in a real mech.

As to whether or not ive played: Just over 2500 games since CB, the majority as a Jenner and all but 7 solo with pre-gateway failure W/L ratio of 2:1, KDR of 7.51 and 4273 kills. Not boasting, keeping track of pre-OB stats is to track my personal progress.

No, he's more like an armchair mechwarrior. The point was, you don't really seem to have experience in the particular area we are talking about.

And yes, while I see your statistics are quite impressive (with the exception of k/d, which was ridicilously easy to abuse in CB, and thus really means nothing), according to your own statement, you've never played in a team. Thus, you don't really even know how different premade 8v8 is compared to any of the other alternatives MWO had in place before.

In 8v8, for your information, LRM's are pretty much a rarity. Why? Because there's no good way to use them. Good groups simply avoid staying in line of sight long enough to get hit by LRM's. And if there are enemy mechs with TAGS.. well, they can run around with a TAG and try to keep someone tagged. Lets assume there are 2 lights with TAG and they are tagging 2 unaware enemy Atlases. They'll get noticed pretty soon when people realize the LRM's just keep coming even into cover. If not even before, because a good 8man usually has a couple of lights with ECM running around, scouting for things like this. So, when they get noticed, regardless of how, the enemy 2 lights WILL be the ones chasing them. And when that happens they can't keep tagging the Atlases. If they want to fight the other lights, they can try to TAG those.. but good luck at that, since TAG doesn't work inside ECM's radius, only outside. Or they can try to fight, but since they wasted a slot for TAG, they won't have as much firepower. If they are smart, they'll get chased away and that's the end of their TAGgin adventure there.


Anyways, I'm interested, so lets analyze your stats here: 2:1 win/loss seems about right if you were a really damn good player. Considering that even the worst players may randomly get in groups that have awesome players, a win/loss -ratio when pugging is quite dependant on luck. But obviously, a very good player can turn an average or even a bad group to a decent one with some work.

However, the way it usually works in MWO is different, especially back in CB where pretty much every match had at least one person on one side disconnect or sit AFK in base for whatever reasons they had.

The way pugs usually go, even if there's one really good player on one side, is like this: the good player may try to communicate, but probably doesn't bother, knowing no one will listen. Then there's this other dude, who thinks he's also a damn good player, and he shouts out, starting right from the get go, these ridicilous commands, probably with CAPS on, like "EVERYONE GO GLINE". And even if some people bother listening, others will not, which ends up splitting the group. Now that the, lets call it "main group" (those who were listeninging to MR HOTSHOT COMMANDER WITH HIS CAPS ON), has actually waddled towards their desired direction, the MR HOTSHOT COMMANDER is simply done giving commands. And that's pretty much what everyone expects nowadays. That's the extent of "lets device a cool strategy" in the minds of most pugs.

But now that the main group is where they were commanded, they find themselves wondering what they should do next. Suddenly they need to think for themselves, and usually they ALL develop their own CRAZILY good tactic that'll work like a charm in their head. Then they'll just skip telling it to others, because.. well, they wouldn't listen anyway (and they probably wouldn't). All this boils down to this: the main group probably waddles in somewhat similar direction, and starts shooting at first enemy they see. In an awful lot of cases that first enemy is just the spearhead of the whole enemy team, so lets assume it is in this case as well. So our main group starts shooting at this first enemy they see, that being the spearhead of the whole enemy team, then one of them, his name being Jimmy Waffles Kerensky, gives chace, because he's like a clanner and stuff, and clanners are aggressive and **** and he's having some cool clanner Trial of something or another in middle of the battle field.

The next guy, Lt Pantless, hangs back, adapting to that tactic he was earlier thinking of. And the last couple of people here, lets say it's 3 of them, including the MR HOTSHOT COMMANDER, who's name is actually Star Captain Martha Kerensky Steiner-Liao (who by the way thinks that since he got his group this far, he has done enough, and inside his own head goes like "AAAAWWW YEEEEAAA.. LIKE A BOSS!"); well, him and xyt the 24th and PandaOnANuclearSub will just follow Lt Pantless like a sheep, as Lt Pantless is actually just the mech in front of them, and his mech has a pro paint, so he must be good.

And all goes well until Jimmy Waffles Kerensky runs into the whole enemy team. Then Lt Pantless decides to reveal his master plan, which is to tactically stay in cover, while Star Captain Martha Kerensky Steiner-Liao, like the boss he is, just rushes after Jimmy Waffles Kerensky, because he's just that badass and also a clanner. xyt the 24th runs away in panic and PandaOnANuclearSub stays with Lt Pantless.

By this time, Jimmy Waffles Kerensky is dead and cursing at "freebirth scum", after which he proceeds to disconnect from the game. And 15 seconds later Star Captain Martha Kerensky Steiner-Liao is dead too. They got 0 kills. He also proceeds to curse at "freebirth scum" and disconnects. Lt Pantless is still hanging to his tactic, which at this point is pretty much sitting put and doing nothing, but PandaOnANuclearSub has realized he may still be able to stay alive and sneakily runs into a map corner in his Dragon and shuts down there and hopes no one finds him. Lt Pantless is now alone versus the whole enemy team.
During these events, the following has happened on the other side: the 3 others in the game, WulfWolfenElementalWolf in his Stalker, 2GrandmasAndACup in his COM 2D and MrHappyponyRainbows in his RVN 4X. The 2 lights, instead of scouting and going for the completely unguarded enemy cap, have stuck with the assault, which is a full LRM Stalker that goes around 48 kph, and they have reached the upper city, which is, incidentally almost as far as possible from the "main group". The LRM boat starts spouting in chat "PLZ MARK TARGETS" while the lights, realizing half their team is dead and the enemy hasn't lost a single mech, start to go for the enemy base cap.

On their way, the lights encounter xyt the 24th and he joins with them, still shaken from his last encounter. They all decide to go for the enemy base, but xyt the 24th is running a trial Catapult K2 and quickly gets left behind and swarmed by the enemy who have by now killed Lt Pantless - who was by the way a pretty decent player and even managed to kill the enemy stock Hunchback 4G that was pretty damaged by Jimmy Waffles Kerensky and Star Captain Martha Kerensky Steiner-Liao. With xyt the 24th dead there are now 4 mechs left, but one of them is still hiding in a corner of the map, shut down, and the other is an LRM-boat with no targets, still shouting "SPOT PLZ!". The 2 lights have reached the cap and almost actually won the game for their team, but at the last moment, the 2 enemy lights, 2 RVN 3L's, come and simply dominate these poor souls, only to have their kills stolen by a Cicada 2A with 4 Machineguns and a TAG. An epic accomplishent, now that you look at it.

Now there are only two mechs in the game, WulfWolfenElementalWolf in his Stalker and PandaOnANuclearSub the Dragon shut down in the far corner of the map. And the enemy, not bothering to search for them simply decide to move and cap. By this time, WulfWolfenElementalWolf is still asking for someone to TAG people in chat. Game over!

Now, DrxAbstract, insert yourself into this (not at all too uncommon match) and replace any of the pilots and tell me how you manage to get a 7,51 kdr. Because this is what pug matches usually are.

Edited by Jyi, 10 February 2013 - 10:26 AM.