43 replies to this topic

[Neokenfu]

Ok, people seem to have a mixed opinion on if ECM is OP and I thought maybe I just don't understand the counters well enough. I just bought a LRM boat and my success swings wildly depending upon how many ECM's the other team has.

The two most common scenarios:

There is not enough ECM on the other team and I can single out Assaults/Heavies with Tag/LRM spam.

They have nearly all ECM and I run around with our ECM to try and find good spots. Ineviatably the team with more ECM gets the drop on you with some ravens and brawlers. This can work out if your whole team is grouped but usually they just roll through you. It seems to be caused by peoples natural tendancy to disperse and developers lack of understanding with regards to competitive balancing issues.

My thought is human nature and no controls on how many ECM mechs are on each team make ECM imbalanced. If ECM is the LRM boat balance then what is the ECM balance? TAG is not it and kind of a joke in current form(haven't tried NARC but heard it was even worse).

Since there is no grid highlight system it's very difficult if not impossible, to communicate the locations of ECM mechs fast enough to address them. The terrible command system is really no substitute for all mechs being able to highlight something on their map(like League of Legends attention and caution pings. I'd suggets this as an addition to help with this. You shouldn't be required to team speak to be able to organise your team. Surely in the 31st century(lore check) they have the ability to communicate with each other through pings.

Maybe the failure is with me and not the "balance" devs though. Please post all the counters you know for ECM's cause I think it would benefit myself and the entire community.

I really don't want to QQ, I just want to understand what I can do strategically to counter such an obvious advantage.

[Gaan Cathal]

Right now? Not run LRMs in PUG matches I'm afraid. The current ECM is overtuned and LRM boats suffer the worst, particularly in PUG matches. Lasers, PPCs and ballistics all provide long range tools for dealing with other mechs irrespective of ECM however.

[anonymous175]

AC/20

[Deamhan]

Stupidly enough, right now, the only real counter to ECM is ECM

[Lykaon]

TAG is only effective as a means of mitigating ECM if your team pays attention long enough to note what was just TAGed and where it was when TAGed.

Otherwise it is pointless as a means of mitigating ECM.However as a direct LOS LRM guidance system it's quite useful any dedicated LRM mech should try to include a TAG.

If you are comming from a solo PuG perspective unfortunatley the only reliable counter to ECM is more ECM toggled to counter enemy ECM and even then you need more counter tuned ECM than the enemy has disrupt tuned ECM. So in effect you need to bring all ECM all the time to be 100% possitive you can (maybe) counter all enemy ECM.And of course this can not be done because as a PuG you have 7 other randoms that may not be ECM.

This here is one of the biggest issues I have with ECM.

ECM is a force multiplyer that improves when stacked with multiple ECM units.This encourages large numbers of ECM equiped mechs to be brought into organized play ( an average 8 man premade team has at least 5 many using 6 ECM mechs)
Conversley I ussually see no more than 4 ECM mechs in PuG games with some PuG games lacking in any ECM at all.

So if you want to enhance your PuG group's chances of ECM domenance I would recomend you pilot a Cicada 3M with ECM.It is the least popular ECM mech in use and is a medium.As a medium mech it is far more likely to be mirrored on the enemy team with a non ECM mech.

By avoiding choosing a light mech you elliminate the chances of the enemy gaining a Raven,Spider or commando with ECM.
By not choosing an assault you remove the chances of seeing an enemy Atlas DDC and those are very popular mechs.

The Cicada 3M is your best bet for gaining an ecm without giving the enemy one as well.

[Neokenfu]

Deamhan, on 07 February 2013 - 04:50 PM, said:

Stupidly enough, right now, the only real counter to ECM is ECM

That's easily the most scary answer I could have received. This is what I suspected but I came here really hoping there were more ways to handle it. ECM = New York Yankees, only way to counter is to drop the same ammount of ECM, and thusly, become the Yankees(See Red Sox championship seasons).

Batlle tech has always been a min/max heavy kind of game and to think people won't build what is at least suspected to be OP is wrong.

Here's another question: Why should people not have a premade team completely comprised of ECM's, Boats(LRM 40, AC/40, 6xSRM6, SSRM light killers?

Best comp I can think of(not very good yet though): 2x AS-7D-DC(ECM), 1x Stalker boat, 1x Cat SRM boat, 1x Cat AC/40 boat, 1x Centurian C9D, and 2x Raven 3L(ECM) or commando 2D(ECM).

I'm still not sure that a team of all ECM wouldn't take that down easily.

Edited by Neokenfu, 07 February 2013 - 05:05 PM.

[Neokenfu]

Lykaon, on 07 February 2013 - 05:03 PM, said:

The Cicada 3M is your best bet for gaining an ecm without giving the enemy one as well.

Thanks for the info and taking the time to respond.

[p00k]

Deamhan, on 07 February 2013 - 04:50 PM, said:

Stupidly enough, right now, the only real counter to ECM is ECM

basically this

while devs seem to recognize ecm needs a clubbing from the nerf bat, none of their adjustments seem to address the ecm arms race that inevitably develops

which, there's really 2 ways to handle it. one, give it enough disadvantages to make players have to actually sacrifice something to take it (weigh a LOT more, do it like an anti-upgrade and have it take up 5-10% mech weight, or maybe make it explode like a gauss), or get rid of the stacking scheme so that having more than 2-3 ecm's per team carries little benefit

[Kyone Akashi]

They could also make it work like it does in the tabletop, where it doesn't interfere with LRMs or SSRM at all but has other uses...

But OP, I still recommend taking a TAG along - or a friend with TAG. It's the most reliable way to override ECM, regardless of how many 'Mechs are trying to jam you. The notable disadvantage is that you (or said friend) need to show themselves to make it work, but perhaps the team can stage a diversion?

[Taizan]

Neokenfu, on 07 February 2013 - 05:03 PM, said:

Best comp I can think of(not very good yet though): 2x AS-7D-DC(ECM), 1x Stalker boat, 1x Cat SRM boat, 1x Cat AC/40 boat, 1x Centurian C9D, and 2x Raven 3L(ECM) or commando 2D(ECM).

More like this currently:
4 D-DC
2 Cat SRM
2 RVN-ML

[Neokenfu]

Taizan, on 07 February 2013 - 05:23 PM, said:

More like this currently:
4 D-DC
2 Cat SRM
2 RVN-ML

Thats what i worry about!

[IceCase88]

Having too many counters for ECM would effectively make ECM pointless. NARC needs some work but not because of ECM. BAP is relevant again since you cannot IFF shutdown mechs. No offense meant but these ECM is OP threads are stupid and pointless. It works as intended. It only affects 2 of the many weapons in the entire game. Just 2 people. Only 2. If people would bring balanced mechs to the game it would be a non-issue. Just because it infringes upon your play-style does not mean it is OP. Bring a balanced mech instead of boating and your play will become better. My Stalker is balanced with short, medium, and long range weapons and I have TAG. I have no issues with ECM. It really just comes down to L2P.

[Neokenfu]

IceCase88, on 07 February 2013 - 06:12 PM, said:

It really just comes down to L2P.

So if you would be so kind as to share your tactics instead of being insulting? You use a Stalker with weapons at all 3 ranges and TAG(only content in your post). Can you add anything else that might be helpful about how to counter ECM. L2P is not an answer I think you or anyone else would accept because the point of the topic is to learn how to play better and find counters to ECM.

[Tangelis]

The L2P was perhaps a little much but he does have a point with his ECM arguement. It generally effects 2 weapons systems only and I would argue that as LRM's can be dumbfired to moderate success. Granted an ECM atlas is perhaps the only real viable dumbfire target but being as slow as they are you don't really need the lock to fire LRM's at them, just the proper range.

ECM counter as it is in terms of game mecahnics is another ECM, but unless your builds rely entirely on SSRM's or LRM's any other weapon is still 100% functional.

We can argue night and day to the mechanics of countering ECM. Counter with ECM, tag etc.... but IMO the best counter to ECM is a good scout and communication.

Of course with PUGS the communication thing can sometimes be asking too much which is why ECM can be the be all end all absolute thing needed or you lose, but in the grand scope of things you work as a team as best you can, and you win like one. ECM or no ECM.......Communication is your best counter.

[Taizan]

TAG is just a soft counter against ECM.

With my LRM mech (AWS-8T) I've killed numerous mechs who thought they were invulnerable under the ECM umbrella as well as ECM carriers themselvs. To keep a target painted with TAG, to keep it targeted, to keep it locked for your missiles though needs a very steady hand, patience and a very good opportunity.

Currently the only "real" counter to ECM is ECM. Some things are up in the works to make ECM a bit less powerful and to have PPCs interrupt it - but generally those will always remain secondary and less effective counters to a mech wielding ECM.

What you want to do is either take weapons that are not reliant on locks (direct fire) or try using TAG yourself or rely on a teammate that keeps that TAG up, while staying outside of the 180m ECM Umbrella.

[Father Dougal]

I've found the way to counter ECM is to have to a have scout get close to a group of mechs then call out the position to the rest of the team can lay into them with lasers and ballastics. Its not the best solution but its normally works.

[Solis Obscuri]

Bring your own ECM, since it's the only counter to ECM.

[Little Nemo]

Don't use one of the TWO weapons in the game that requires lock on?

[Drakenn]

Right now ECM is a little too strong, I think it should have a bigger dead zone, 20m isn't enough. also I think at close range it should delay lock on, not negate it.

[Mycrus]

The only way i get a satisfying game is to play a game of 8s vs another team with forcedec rules in place.

The quickest forcedec to setup id 2a 2h 2m 2l 2 ecm limit