55 replies to this topic

[Mchawkeye]

Sug, on 09 February 2013 - 08:31 AM, said:

Pros: Everyone gets what they want faster.

Cons: Everyone gets what they want faster. People get sick of the game faster. PGI makes less money. PGI has less incentive to maintain game. PGI adds less content. Game probably fails.


Happy?

Ecstatic.

[Chrithu]

Sorry if my reply came off blunt (ok I admit it was). But it comes from my feeling that the income we get is just about right. My average gain per match is 109k CBills. Which means on average I have to play 10 matches per 1 mio CBills needed. For me that's just about the right pace to keep wanting to play but not seem like I'm not making progress.

But I am a 32 year old oldschooler that started gaming in a time when most game developers gave a **** about a game being too hard for certain people (okey they also didn't have the direct feedback they get now back then) and they still knew that a true feeling of having achieved something only is present when there was a certain amount of work/effort involved.

Thus I am pretty biased and I am not expecting to achieve a garage full of assaults within 3 months of playing the game. And yes having earned my way to garage full of mechs truelly is an achievement for me.

That being said I repeat that an average income of 100k Cbills per match to me feels just about right considering the mech pricing. 150 games and you can afford just about any mech. Play 10 games a day and you're there in two weeks. I feel it shouldn't be any faster without investing into hero mechs or premium time.

Edited by Jason Parker, 09 February 2013 - 08:41 AM.

[Sug]

Mchawkeye, on 09 February 2013 - 08:34 AM, said:

Ecstatic.

I aim to please.

Mchawkeye, on 09 February 2013 - 07:57 AM, said:

Also those saying "play the game" which doesn't help as I don't have a great deal of time. Something I have stated several times in this thread.

As for those telling me that that's what premium is for, you also didn't clearly understand the question nor the context I set it into.

We get it. You don't have the time to play the game enough to earn what you want. You also don't have the extra money required to reduce the amount of time you have to play.

Since your only options currently are:

1. Play more.
2. Spend more.

We seem to have reached an impasse. So I will leave you with this quote from Wargames.

Joshua: A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?

[zhaocore]

Pay premium, get money faster.

I did for the first 2 months and now i have +90mill cbill since i already bought all the things i want.

[Tarman]

Mchawkeye, on 09 February 2013 - 08:22 AM, said:

you seem to misunderstand the idea that I am not a premium user. as evidenced by your question;



I understand the concept of premium time. and the need for them to earn money. I have stated as much.

However, I feel there must be a sweet-spot between the two, and I feel that so far they have missed the mark just slightly. Abused is a strong word. I do think that we do not get enough money for kills. If i want to by a a heavy mech it's going to be 59 matches. that's ten hours or so play (as much as you can average such a thing out). That's an awful lot of time to spend to get a new chassis when, largely the only thing you can do in the game is buy mechs and fanny with their loadouts. there are no other maps. Currently no other metagame. Just mechs.

Whilst I admit this comparison is unfair to some degree, but can you imagine what MW 3 or 4 would have been like if it took 10 hours to upgrade?

Not everyone can play without sleep. not everyone can buy premium. these people should be respected too.

People need to feel they are achieving at a rate that keeps them interested. The stick and the carrot and what not. I feel the stick needs recalibrating.

Ten hours isn't much time to invest in a game with an acquisition angle, not comparatively or isolated, and especially in a F2P onliner. You're also talking about the demographic that the company should least cater to, the people who have neither time nor money. This is not a customer base section that will provide high numbers of steady players or steady revenue. I understand that this is the group of players who will suffer the most, but they are also contributing the least, either in players or cash.

[Mchawkeye]

RiceyFighter, on 09 February 2013 - 08:24 AM, said:

I only play few days per week ever since founders. I have only 4 battlemechs, 1 founders catapult, 1 spider, 1 hunchback, 1 commando and 50 million C-Bills. I have not activated my founder premium either.

So lets say average 75k C-Bills earned per match without premium and an Atlas cost about 10 million C- Bills.

10 Mill/75k = 134 games.

134 games * 10 minutes = 1340 Minutes

1340 minutes / 60 minutes = 22 hours.

If you played 2 hours a day it takes about a week and a half for the biggest battlemech in game.

Cataphract olnly cost 75% of a Atlas so it cost about a week or so.

It occurs to me, and if PGI are reading this perhaps they can help, that what we need is numbers. We need to know the average amount of time, per week, people spend in the game.

Personally, I feel 22 hours to get a single mech is a mental amount of time to spend. That is an insane amount of time to expect your player base to spend saving money. games like this rely on the ability to improve and alter your load out/chassis. 22 hours to even think about that is fairly daunting.

Plus I, like many others I am sure, do not have 2 hours a night.

[Commander Kobold]

Sug, on 09 February 2013 - 07:26 AM, said:

Playing MWO matches is not grindy.

yes, yes it is.

[jakucha]

Omni 13, on 09 February 2013 - 08:45 AM, said:

yes, yes it is.

There are a fairly finite number of mechs in this game. When you take that into consideration, there's hardly any grind. You want real grind? Try Planetside 2.

[Mchawkeye]

Tarman, on 09 February 2013 - 08:39 AM, said:

Ten hours isn't much time to invest in a game with an acquisition angle, not comparatively or isolated, and especially in a F2P onliner. You're also talking about the demographic that the company should least cater to, the people who have neither time nor money. This is not a customer base section that will provide high numbers of steady players or steady revenue. I understand that this is the group of players who will suffer the most, but they are also contributing the least, either in players or cash.

This is a valid point indeed, but I am talking about a compromise. there must be a place (or indeed a way) to keep everyone happy to some degree. why not link their earning potential to their weekly average time in the game? the more you play, the less you earn per match (though obviously your income would be greater overall) the less you play, the more you earn per match.

Which even I think sounds ridiculous, but you never know.

Sug, on 09 February 2013 - 08:38 AM, said:

Since your only options currently are:

1. Play more.
2. Spend more.

We seem to have reached an impasse. So I will leave you with this quote from Wargames.

Joshua: A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?

This is not a discussion about my current choices. this is a discussion (or at least, I'm trying to make it into one) about the overall game in general as it relates to time/reward.

[Gremlich Johns]

I just wish XL engines did not have the same cost as a Medium mech.

I have yet to spend the MC I got from the Founder's pack.

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 09 February 2013 - 09:04 AM.

[Eyecon69]

I'm pretty new.

I never ever not once played mechwarrior in the past. I don't mind the grind but what caught me off guard mostly because i'm a total newb and never thought of it but I was getting a Cadet bonus. My bro was playing my account for the first bit way more than I was and I guess there was some sort of Cadet bonus so I had built a Ctaphract or what ever heavy it was then I thought well I could sell it and get a Catapult and it won't be much to earn the doh to get into somin else a bit later on... ya.. apparently the cadet bonus leaves pretty quick or shortly after I really started playing.

Also I didn't initally realize that your experience stays with that mech that your using (which really makes sense) but ya... I shouldn't have sold it

Anyways it seems like it will take for ever to build up enough cash to get a new mech and the other avenues are totally there and thats why the game is made the way it is. A little bit of a quicker increase in funds would be nice from an upgrading standpoint. Alot of other games allow you to start more than one character and build experience.

Rotating the trial mechs is nice but I think if there was a given mech on each catagory where you could have no cadet bonus and slowly build up cash upgrade and such. I'm pretty sure the experience you get in the trial mechs doesn't follow through onto either the Pilot or mech trees... I could (read probaby) wrong but I dunno... I really wish I would have known some other stuff before I decided to sell my first mech. Now I've got mech that is ok... but I do kind of feel like I lost out a bit there.

[Mchawkeye]

jakucha, on 09 February 2013 - 08:47 AM, said:

There are a fairly finite number of mechs in this game. When you take that into consideration, there's hardly any grind. You want real grind? Try Planetside 2.

well since it's not as grindy as PS2, that's fine and we should leave it as is. Alternatively, we should look at the game in question and decide weather it can be improved or not. because that is the game we are playing.

Comparisons like that are pointless as each game plays very, very differently.

[Rotaugen]

I use MC to buy mechs, C-Bills to customize each mech. Not everyone wants to spend actual cash, but I have limited time and it works well for me. Never have a problem with cash. If anything, I have tons in inventory that I could sell, but don't because of the resale value.

[Sug]

Someone wants a Little League trophy for 7th place

[Tarman]

Mchawkeye, on 09 February 2013 - 08:49 AM, said:

This is a valid point indeed, but I am talking about a compromise. there must be a place (or indeed a way) to keep everyone happy to some degree. why not link their earning potential to their weekly average time in the game? the more you play, the less you earn per match (though obviously your income would be greater overall) the less you play, the more you earn per match.

Which even I think sounds ridiculous, but you never know.



This is not a discussion about my current choices. this is a discussion (or at least, I'm trying to make it into one) about the overall game in general as it relates to time/reward.

I don't think that nerfing regular player income to boost cash for more casual players is a good idea; just the concept of that would cause some nasty community sniping at "spacepoor casuals holding us back". It's a tough demographic to hook into the standard playerbase on an even footing because one of the pillars of the F2P model is you either grind your face off for your toys or you pony up cash if you don't like the wait or the grind. If you can do neither then the F2P model isn't really a good investment in your gaming resources in the first place because of its intrinsic operation.

I don't have anything against superbrokecasuals, to coin a flip term that people will run with and use as a slur, but it's not easy to give them an equal seat at the table with the players who did grind their faces off for their stable or did pony up their IRL monies; not without resentment or giving the SBCs more than they're willing to invest into the game.

[NRP]

The OP probably won't like this advice, but if you're short of time and need to earn max C-Bills, buy a hero mech with MC (real money). The C-Bill bonus afforded to hero mechs is very nice.

[Sug]

NRP, on 09 February 2013 - 09:16 AM, said:

The OP probably won't like this advice, but if you're short of time and need to earn max C-Bills, buy a hero mech with MC (real money). The C-Bill bonus afforded to hero mechs is very nice.

He's going to hate that advice.

[Tarman]

NRP, on 09 February 2013 - 09:16 AM, said:

The OP probably won't like this advice, but if you're short of time and need to earn max C-Bills, buy a hero mech with MC (real money). The C-Bill bonus afforded to hero mechs is very nice.

If he goes that route for himself, I'd recommend an Ilya, it's probably the overall best of the heroes if you're only getting one. I <3 me some Marmoset! Most of the other rides are pretty niche imo except for the Pretty Baby which even I'm thinking isn't going into my stable for a while due to its crazy-high price. I don't drive enough Awesomes to justify the Pokemon Effect on that hero just yet.

[NRP]

For the amount of time you'll spend with them and the overall enjoyment, hero mechs aren't even really that expensive. Especially compared to going to a 3D movie, drinks at a bar, or even Starbucks coffee.

[Valore]

Geez. Life is so much less fun when you're poor.

But there's not really a solution here. If you crank down the pain, then no one would pay.

Personally, people have overblown expectations a bit these days, partly because some other F2P games have set the bar really high.

If you'd introduced MWO back before F2P was a thing, people would have bit your hand off.