63 replies to this topic

[Timelordwho]

Do you mount ecm on your mechs?

If every mech was ECM capabily would you ever not mount it?

Long story short, 1.5T is too cheap for the effect it provides. Adjustments need to be made, the only question is what will they be.

[Codejack]

KuruptU4Fun, on 10 February 2013 - 08:34 AM, said:

You're asking me if I'm playing the same game as you and yet you've openly stated that you never want to play this game again?

Well, your lack of reading comprehension explains a lot.

KuruptU4Fun, on 10 February 2013 - 08:34 AM, said:

Seriously Code, there has to be SOMETHING besides arguing your uberbeaten rants that you can do that bring you some sort of enjoyment in life...

Yes; mocking ignorance. Why else would I be here?

[KuruptU4Fun]

Kaspirikay, on 10 February 2013 - 08:35 AM, said:

help, my post broke the forums

Maybe it's a point to mention I play with a team that uses 3rd party comms and uses tactical teamwork. Therefore broadening my options to defeat the unbeatable...

[Sheraf]

I agree that ECM should only lengthen the time to acquire a lock. This will benefit scout mech to be able to escape from danger during their scouting mission, but not allow scout mech to replace assault mechs or heavy mechs as front line assualt. ECM should only provide a bit of advantage over the enemy during the fight, not deny one side from using their missiles.

[Kaspirikay]

Sheraf, on 10 February 2013 - 08:38 AM, said:

I agree that ECM should only lengthen the time to acquire a lock. This will benefit scout mech to be able to escape from danger during their scouting mission, but not allow scout mech to replace assault mechs or heavy mechs as front line assualt. ECM should only provide a bit of advantage over the enemy during the fight, not deny one side from using their missiles.

Yes, exactly!

[Cybermech]

expect ECM to get hard to use over the next while and require some thought.

[Sheraf]

I think we can remove the lock on immunity of ECM or keep it as is, but instead give it a limited duration,maybe 5 to 10 sec, and a long cool down. This will only provide enough time to escape from danger, or gaining advantage in a brief period of time only.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

I support changing ECM once they bring LRMs, SRMs, and SSRMs in line with the other weapons. Until then, ECM should stay wherevits at.

[Codejack]

Sheraf, on 10 February 2013 - 08:38 AM, said:

I agree that ECM should only lengthen the time to acquire a lock. This will benefit scout mech to be able to escape from danger during their scouting mission, but not allow scout mech to replace assault mechs or heavy mechs as front line assualt. ECM should only provide a bit of advantage over the enemy during the fight, not deny one side from using their missiles.

See, no, this is exactly the problem; everyone keeps trying to fix the symptoms instead of the problem.

Missiles, in general, should not track as well as they do. A plain LRM with lock-on should have half it's missiles miss the enemy, improving to where they are now with TAG, NARC and Artemis, and BAP should extend the range you can achieve lock.

Then, ECM could just counter NARC, Artemis and BAP and be sufficiently powerful.

[Sheraf]

For me, I don't see a problem with current implement of LRM, SSR, and SSRM. For most of my mech, I carry a balance load out of weapons, LRM, laser, SRM. I do carry LRM, but max is 2. I have no problem fighting LRM boat 2x LRM20 +2x LRM 15 with my 2 LRM 20 + 2 large laser, and well the ballistic mech cause me a lot of trouble. I can't just stay there and exchange fire with them if they can hit me .

SRM has limited range. You gonna need your scout to do its job to report current enemy position, or aiming SRM yourself, or ballistic. I have trouble killing the AC20 cat a lot more than the SRM6 one

SSRM, I carry these too, but they no longer do focus damage. On why the Raven 3L is so effective at killing you with streaks, I don't think it is the streak, don;t forget that the Raven also carry 3 Medium laser, which do 15 pinpoint damage. The SSRM only finish you off. For the A1 cat, how long would it last in a fight to a Hunchback 4P with 9 Medium laser, that constantly hitting its ear?

Codejack, on 10 February 2013 - 08:48 AM, said:

See, no, this is exactly the problem; everyone keeps trying to fix the symptoms instead of the problem.

Missiles, in general, should not track as well as they do. A plain LRM with lock-on should have half it's missiles miss the enemy, improving to where they are now with TAG, NARC and Artemis, and BAP should extend the range you can achieve lock.

Then, ECM could just counter NARC, Artemis and BAP and be sufficiently powerful.

I did a stand off LRM exchange with a stalker that carry 2 LRM 20, and 2 LRM 15, while I use 2 LRM 20+artemis in my C4 catapult. I won

Edited by Sheraf, 10 February 2013 - 08:57 AM.

[Kaspirikay]

Codejack, on 10 February 2013 - 08:48 AM, said:

See, no, this is exactly the problem; everyone keeps trying to fix the symptoms instead of the problem. Missiles, in general, should not track as well as they do. A plain LRM with lock-on should have half it's missiles miss the enemy, improving to where they are now with TAG, NARC and Artemis, and BAP should extend the range you can achieve lock. Then, ECM could just counter NARC, Artemis and BAP and be sufficiently powerful.

I'd say SSRMs need to do alittle less damage and require a relock after every shot.

[Codejack]

Kaspirikay, on 10 February 2013 - 08:59 AM, said:

I'd say SSRMs need to do alittle less damage and require a relock after every shot.

I just think that that is still covering up the problem; no, if they all hit (and while they're changing everything, why not make Artemis, TAG, etc help streaks?) they should do a lot of damage, but you should have to make more of an investment and most of it should be counterable.

Consider the TAG; ECM shouldn't counter it, which would be especially nice if it helped streaks, but that makes the streakcat less viable since it doesn't have an energy hardpoint. That mech would need to load Artemis and/or blow a hardpoint on a NARC launcher for the streaks to work like they do now.

Then LRMs would depend more on TAG and Artemis, since the difference between NARC's max range and LRMs min range is so short.

So ECM just countering those systems, along with AMS, would make missiles more of an annoyance.

[Kousagi]

Code, Tag is not countered by ECM... At no time has it even been countered by ECM. ECM is countering your data sharing, so that the info you are getting from Tag can not be sent to anyone else. Also, once someone gets in range to jam you with ECM, its kinda pointless to use Tag anyway, since missile lockon's are also jammed. Streaks should never be able to use tag/narc/Artemis or other things, Since streaks are a special munition, much like LRM's need Narc-ammo, or Artemis-ammo to use those systems ( well MWO ya don't need Narc-ammo, which i think is wrong).

Though LRM's already depend on Tag, as any LRM boat that has a brain also has tag. Tag makes LRM boats pretty nasty. Lucky for most people, most people don't know how to use LRM's the correct way, so we just keep getting tons of topics about how LRM's are so worthless, when really, that are super strong.

[Sheraf]

I don't carry tag, instead I tag with a pair of large laser

[Codejack]

Kousagi, on 10 February 2013 - 09:34 AM, said:

Code, Tag is not countered by ECM...

Yes it is; you get inside the bubble and try to TAG an ECM mech.

[Kousagi]

Codejack, on 10 February 2013 - 09:38 AM, said:

Yes it is; you get inside the bubble and try to TAG an ECM mech.

You still tag it... Its not countered, Plus using tag under 200m is pointless, since you can already target the mech. Thing is, under 180m what is being countered is your data sharing, So no matter how much Your tag can see a target, you can't pass that info to another mech. Tag is not being countered... Please stop saying it is.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Y'all know in TT, LRMs don't lock on? You could miss with TWO volleys of LRM20s completely?

TT ECM didn't need to counter LRMs. TT ECM just needed to counter the LRM's bonusing effects like Artemis and NARC. LRM's were dumb fired SRMs that had a max range of 1000m and a min range of 180. You would then add effects to increase their chances of hitting, such as Artemis (only improves grouping up to 450m), NARC (all fired LRMs would have an increased chance to hit NARC'ed mech), TAG (also provided a 'to hit" bonus"), streak LRMs (you know, the ACTUAL lock on LRMs) etc.

All TT ECM did was turn those highly modified LRMs into the unmodified, dumb fire, stock LRMs. Basically negating a few tons of equipment (a ton for each Artemis equipped LRM, NARC, and TAG <TAG still worked as long as the TAG carrying mech kept its distance from ECM>). Oh, and ECM cut off C3 systems from each other and negated the bonusing effects of BAP.

So you can't get a lock on that D-DC? Dumb fire your missiles at him. Too hard to hit? Well suggest that PGI fix the ******** flight path. Remember how LRM's flew in previous incarnations of the game? Yeah, ask for that back.

I'd like to see the LRM's have better speed and improved pathing making dumb fire LRM's (which is how they should be) viable. That also means their damage needs to come down.


I've noticed that everyone that whined about LRM's and wanted ECM are now whining about ECM. The ECM woes and ECM in general are the symptoms of larger problem: Imbalanced missiles.

[Codejack]

Kousagi, on 10 February 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:

You still tag it... Its not countered, Plus using tag under 200m is pointless, since you can already target the mech. Thing is, under 180m what is being countered is your data sharing, So no matter how much Your tag can see a target, you can't pass that info to another mech. Tag is not being countered... Please stop saying it is.

http://mwowiki.org/w...termeasure_(ECM)

Quote

When your Mech is disrupted by an enemy ECM:

• You will not know where your teammates are, and they won’t know where you are, unless you have direct line of sight to each other.
  
• You cannot share any targeting data with the rest of your team, and vice versa.
  
• Your Beagle Active Probe ceases to function.
  
• You cannot achieve any missile locks.
  
• Your TAG laser can still fire but provides no bonuses.
  
• Your battlegrid and targeting information will flicker.

Edited by Codejack, 10 February 2013 - 09:52 AM.

[Kousagi]

Codejack, on 10 February 2013 - 09:50 AM, said:

~ lots of quotes ~

Ya know why theres no bonus? Cause your mech can't send out the target data... holy f**k you don't listen. Sorry that PGI is using tag as a personal target designator and not a target painter. Thats just how they are doing it. So if your Personal mechs targeting system can not pass its own personal targeting data to other mechs to help guide in their missiles, then how are they going to get the bonus from tag?......

Not sure I can get any more barney for ya.

[Codejack]

Kousagi, on 10 February 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

Ya know why theres no bonus? Cause your mech can't send out the target data...

Send out target data to whom?! I'M THE ONE FIRING THE $%@!ing MISSILES!