101 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

Quote

has been clearly denied by PGI... no player controlled units other than Mechs... maybe, just maybe, AI controlled ones later

Well they should reconsider since they basically killed MWLL which was better than MWO in many ways.

[SpiralRazor]

Vassago Rain, on 10 February 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

No. It doesn't work in practice. Living legends tried, and mechs, being what they are, are far inferior to both planes and tanks.

So because one company wasnt able to balance them, no company can? Not that im saying that PGI can, given there record, but some people could surely...Your argument is a bit flawed if MWLL is your basis.

DrBlue62, on 10 February 2013 - 03:07 PM, said:

I have to ask what was the point of battlemechs then? I know nothing of battletech.

Tanks are much less mobile, and super vulnerable to flames and inferno rounds.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Want combined arms combat in the battletech universe? Go buy Cyrsis Warhead [which comes with Crysis Wars] and download "Mechwarrior: Living Legends" which is a mod for Crysis wars.

That's your choice, Mechwarrior:Online is about the mechs, nothing else.

MWLL gives full, combined arms warfare from infintary[battlearmor] to tanks, to aerospace to mechs...

The problem with MWLL is that combined arms warfare, as AWESOME an idea as it is... sucks to play. The mod has pretty much died [though maybe those who want to play it, can resurge the mod with players] And tanks, for less money, get more weaponry and armor than mechs for the same cost.

Still, that's your option... go play MWLL if you want your combined arms fix.

[Natasha Kerensky]

Just do it like LoL, HoN, and DOTA. Have tanks come out of bases and they fight each other and we have to destroy to opposite side mechs or destroy their base.

[verybad]

I would prefer Tanks to be pretty weak, but PvE controlled, with humans maybe able to give lances of Tanks orders such as advance to E4, or attack selected target, or defend our base.

They should be pretty easy to blow up, but carry signifigant firepower so they can't be ignored.

Vehicles I'd reccomend for being in the game:

Demolisher (80 tons, twin AC-20s)
Manticore Tank (60 ton Tank, PPC, SRM6, LRM10, Medium Laser)
Scorpion Light (25 tons AC-5, MG)
Harrasser Hovercraft (25 tons, 2 SRM6)
LRM Carrioer (60 ton, 3 LRM-20s, slow as spit)
Warrior H7 (21 ton VTOL, AC-2, SRM4)
Longtom Artillery

These would provide a range of vehicles.

I would say have a mode called "Warfare" Capturing bases would allow you to "buy units once you had bought 4 units, they would deploy from your main base, Vehicle units could be given orders by players once every minute (players with Command Modules could order them once every 30 seconds. ECM would block their recieving orders, in which case they would revert to Main Base Defense.

[Ashnod]

Stormwolf, on 10 February 2013 - 03:16 PM, said:

Tanks are completely boned:

Double the armor my friend, and take away crits like fuel explosions, welcome to MWO, also.. 1 mech = 2 tanks

Edited by Ashnod, 10 February 2013 - 04:20 PM.

[Vassago Rain]

Gremlich Johns, on 10 February 2013 - 03:15 PM, said:

Combined Arms matches makes for much better gameplay. Try out MW:LL.

I did. It doesn't make the game fun.
It makes mechs useless, as you'd expect.

LL is a dead game, with empty servers, and it's been that way for pretty much its whole existence. It never focused on mechs, but wanted to be battletech the strategic operations simulator.

I want giant robots fighting, and hope they never add tanks, infantry, or planes to this game.

[Vassago Rain]

Natasha Kerensky, on 10 February 2013 - 04:07 PM, said:

Just do it like LoL, HoN, and DOTA. Have tanks come out of bases and they fight each other and we have to destroy to opposite side mechs or destroy their base.

This is a terrible idea.

[Ashnod]

Also @ all the posts about crits on tanks killing movement etc, how about we add in crits to mechs gyros and actuators and legs? Also the chance to fall on pavement and in water snow etc as well as compartment breaches..

Always nice to have a through armor crit on your gyro.. I heard it helps, or dual TAC's on a upper and lower leg or foot

Edited by Ashnod, 10 February 2013 - 04:25 PM.

[Tincan Nightmare]

DrBlue62, on 10 February 2013 - 03:07 PM, said:

I have to ask what was the point of battlemechs then? I know nothing of battletech.

Vehicles in BT had numerous drawbacks. Mobility was one, because numerous terrain features were unpassable by the classes of vehicles (wheeled, tracked, and hover.) Mechs could move over terrain that vehicles couldn't enter. Also, they had a lower number of hit locations. While a lower number of hit locations seems like an obvious benefit due to the same number of armor points to ton, the hit location table counted that in favor of mechs. Facing a tank head on, you would either hit the hull location facing you, or the turret, while the tank could hit any of 8 locations (each leg, each arm, 3 torso location, or the head.) So if an Awesome fires on a Demolisher in TT and all 3 hit, that means you could get all 3 in the same location much easier, while the Demolisher was more likely to put its 2 AC/20 shots in 2 different locations. Plus thru criticals were very common against vehicles, allowing for even massive tanks like the Demolisher or Behemoth to be destroyed before their armor was depleted, a very rare occurence for mechs. Of course in MWO where we are not rolling to see what shots hit and to what location, tanks would be far more lethal (especially something like the Alarcorn with 3 gauss rifles) though they could still be more fragile.

edit: if the Awesome fires all 3 PPC's is what I meant.

Edited by Tincan Nightmare, 10 February 2013 - 04:26 PM.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

also @OP... y ou were playing "Mechassault" that alone is your problem... stop playing games that nearly killed this IP.

[Ashnod]

Tincan Nightmare, on 10 February 2013 - 04:25 PM, said:

Vehicles in BT had numerous drawbacks. Mobility was one, because numerous terrain features were unpassable by the classes of vehicles (wheeled, tracked, and hover.) Mechs could move over terrain that vehicles couldn't enter. Also, they had a lower number of hit locations. While a lower number of hit locations seems like an obvious benefit due to the same number of armor points to ton, the hit location table counted that in favor of mechs. Facing a tank head on, you would either hit the hull location facing you, or the turret, while the tank could hit any of 8 locations (each leg, each arm, 3 torso location, or the head.) So if an Awesome fires on a Demolisher in TT and all 3 hit, that means you could get all 3 in the same location much easier, while the Demolisher was more likely to put its 2 AC/20 shots in 2 different locations. Plus thru criticals were very common against vehicles, allowing for even massive tanks like the Demolisher or Behemoth to be destroyed before their armor was depleted, a very rare occurence for mechs. Of course in MWO where we are not rolling to see what shots hit and to what location, tanks would be far more lethal (especially something like the Alarcorn with 3 gauss rifles) though they could still be more fragile.

And the fact in MWO that there much smaller and low profile would play to there advantage as well.. Where like you said we aren't rolling to hit or for locations

Edited by Ashnod, 10 February 2013 - 04:28 PM.

[Vassago Rain]

Ashnod, on 10 February 2013 - 04:24 PM, said:

Also @ all the posts about crits on tanks killing movement etc, how about we add in crits to mechs gyros and actuators and legs? Also the chance to fall on pavement and in water snow etc as well as compartment breaches..

Always nice to have a through armor crit on your gyro.. I heard it helps, or dual TAC's on a upper and lower leg or foot

TAC to the face, hitting the life support.

FUN.

Ashnod, on 10 February 2013 - 04:27 PM, said:

And the fact in MWO that there much smaller and low profile would play to there advantage as well.. Where like you said we aren't rolling to hit or for locations

Dude, BT tanks are gigantic.

[Ashnod]

Vassago Rain, on 10 February 2013 - 04:29 PM, said:

TAC to the face, hitting the life support.

FUN.



Dude, BT tanks are gigantic.

There more like actual RL tanks.. Somewhat larger but still a small low to the ground profile, specially when compared to mechs.. Than having to choose to fight an atlas at regular size or the demolisher down by its feet.. Awkward

Edited by Ashnod, 10 February 2013 - 04:35 PM.

[Jericho917]

Tanks or other NPC opponents would make a great base defense. only a few in the area of a base, nothing in the center where mechs actually engage eachother.

[KingNobody]

No to player controlled tanks/vehicles,infantry,aircraft and emplaced defenses.

Yes to AI controlled tanks/vehicles, infantry, aircraft and emplaced defenses.

That will be all.

[Tyler Durden]

Ashnod, on 10 February 2013 - 02:55 PM, said:

No sir, there not inferior, maybe some of them can be.. But most can easily go toe to toe with a mech of its own weight class.. And we don't have through armor crits in MWO.. And some tanks have 17-20 tons + of armor

And did I mention that we have double armor values? So were looking at tanks with around 30-40 tons of armor equivalence..

Perhaps your BattleTech experience differs from mine. Tanks are fragile in the games I play. How do your games usually play out?

TACs are not implemented on mechs in MWO, but that's not to say they couldn't be implemented on tanks.

[Jericho917]

AI controlled units in general would be amazing! how about some co-op missions. night raid on the river city map vs AI tanks and infiantry would be great. you could also have missions where a lance invades a map by hot drop and has to wipe out player mechs and heavy AI tank support, that would be fun on both sides of the fight.

[Ashnod]

Tyler Durden, on 10 February 2013 - 05:01 PM, said:

Perhaps your BattleTech experience differs from mine. Tanks are fragile in the games I play. How do your games usually play out?

TACs are not implemented on mechs in MWO, but that's not to say they couldn't be implemented on tanks.

The main thing is the massive armor that are on main battle tanks make them really frustrating to kill, if your focusing on trying to finish one off that just wont take that crit to its internals that will finally finish it off you might have a few heavy weapons that will continually pound you, and while that's happening you also have mech's that you could be focusing on.

It get's really bad in double blind with zelbriggen, where mech's can really only one on one eachother, but battle armor can help on anything and tanks are completely excluded from the rules of zelbriggen because there classified as non warriors to the clans, meaning they can shoot at even blacked out pilots.. and well, the mars HAG has about the same weaponry as a Dire wolf and even more armor and everything can basically shoot across the map, oh and one point of armor is 2 tanks.


But the main problem in MWO, is that there armor would be doubled, they wouldn't receive TAC's, they would have a small low to the ground profile, and devastating weapons (tripple gauss, ac20's ppc's etc) and they would be able to focus there damage onto one point.

Jericho917, on 10 February 2013 - 05:44 PM, said:

AI controlled units in general would be amazing! how about some co-op missions. night raid on the river city map vs AI tanks and infiantry would be great. you could also have missions where a lance invades a map by hot drop and has to wipe out player mechs and heavy AI tank support, that would be fun on both sides of the fight.

Do you really want to have to deal with things that are smaller than the size of your mech's foot with laser rifles, SRM launchers (some with inferno rounds) the ability to lay mines and build traps?

Edited by Ashnod, 10 February 2013 - 06:14 PM.

[Vasces Diablo]

The only way I would like tanks in the game is in an "NPC attack called in by lance/mission commander" kind if way. As in they defend your base or drive towards the opponents base while shooting at net enemy target they come across.

Light tanks only, like Gallions.