26 replies to this topic

[Angelos Sanguinum]

Melee Weapons and melee combat.
Another battle and another brawler-mech want to facehug you ? With melee combat it won't be a problem, because you can punch his head down or rip him apart with your melee weapon ! Nobody will be stupid enough again to rush into melee capable mech. We are not talking about crude axes or other thrash, imagine how epic will look your melee weapon on your mech just for few tonns of additional weight.

So....brand new Atlas "Can Opener 3000" :





In this topic you can share your schemes of melee implementation and draw some weapons too .
First step in melee combat implementation can be knockdowns and punches. Punches for example don't need to always knockdown, they can just damage armor and structure for a good amount - free hit without heat. Halftorso weapons of that arm will be off for punch duration.
With melee weapon there is many possibilities. "Can Opener 3000" that I imagined can thrust into mech and at maximum speed and momentum damages structure too. It can be 1hit weapon if you won't backpedal from your target after hit Spikes can be ripped from your arm because of great tension, thats why Spikes are not inside arm.
I had other melee weapon idea but its demanding technology level beyond Battletech.

...and yes, Iam Krazy.

[Gigastrike]

Melee is actually very canon:
http://www.sarna.net...lee_BattleMechs

Many mechs could even use melee attack without proper weapons. The Dragon specifically was supposed to commonly finish opponents off with melee, or at least it's wiki article says so.

I'd like to see melee attacks in game, but no knockdowns, and not too much damage unless your in a Banzai or something.

[blinkin]

Gigastrike, on 11 February 2013 - 05:15 PM, said:

Melee is actually very canon:
http://www.sarna.net...lee_BattleMechs

Many mechs could even use melee attack without proper weapons. The Dragon specifically was supposed to commonly finish opponents off with melee, or at least it's wiki article says so.

I'd like to see melee attacks in game, but no knockdowns, and not too much damage unless your in a Banzai or something.

any mech can perform melee attacks. they just can't fire any weapons on an arm and punch with that arm on the same turn.

http://www.sarna.net...ch_Master_Rules :
Physical attacks

• Punch, club, push, kick, and charge attacks
  
• Death from Above attacks

[Das Wudone]

i would love melee for this game. since there are certain mechs that have never ever reached into any mechwarrior game yet and some of those are fan favorites (axeman, hatchetman, yen-lo-wang kai allard liao version, etc.)

[Angelos Sanguinum]

Gigastrike, on 11 February 2013 - 05:15 PM, said:

Melee is actually very canon:
http://www.sarna.net...lee_BattleMechs
Many mechs could even use melee attack without proper weapons. The Dragon specifically was supposed to commonly finish opponents off with melee, or at least it's wiki article says so.

Thank you for reference, I didn't see some mechs with fists as primary weapon.
It looks like for 3050 the only melee weapons available are Mech Fists, Lance Hatchet and Claw :[
With only upgrade for melee - http://www.sarna.net...Strength_Myomer
Vibroblade, Sword, Cudgel-Mace and Talon - all this was developed 5-10 years later and I think they ripped clan mechs with these.
And maybe we can see Hatchetman ingame - http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Hatchetman .

blinkin, on 11 February 2013 - 05:34 PM, said:

Death from Above attacks

This sounds like Jetpacks everywhere :] Still it can be good option if your half torsos are blown, its just need balancing.

Edited by Angelos Sanguinum, 12 February 2013 - 05:38 AM.

[kiltymonroe]

DFA ought to at least be an option when Highlanders come around, I hope. Ambivalent about the rest.

[Roland]

I'm pretty sure you can pick up limbs from dead mechs and hit other mechs with them, which is awesome.

[MiG77]

At very least (until proper melee mechanism is implemented) mech with hand actuators (or Centrurion "claw") should have bonus in ramming damage (IE 5-10% bonus for each hand actuator or 10-20% from "claw"). That atleast would make having them somewhat usefull (They currently are not benefit as they only take critical space).

Edited by MiG77, 12 February 2013 - 08:10 AM.

[MaddMaxx]

When using ones imagination, as is the case with BT, no worries, chop kick punch pow pow pow, is great fun, but the required animations to make Melee combat, in real time, actually look "right" would be overly numerous. Just put back "collisions" and a proper damage model based on that, DFA fits right in there, and that should suffice.

Edited by MaddMaxx, 12 February 2013 - 11:29 AM.

[Angelos Sanguinum]

MaddMaxx, on 12 February 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

When using ones imagination, as is the case with BT, no worries, chop kick punch pow pow pow, is great fun, but the required animations to make Melee combat, in real time, actually look "right" would be overly numerous.

Orly ? Is it bad counting or just bad joke ? We only have about 8 Mechs with Fists and Hand Animations is a piece of cake, even I can make one in Maya, see screenshot. So 8*2 animations for punch will be impossibly numerous ? Its less than a day work for some pro i suppose.

MaddMaxx, on 12 February 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

Just put back "collisions" and a proper damage model based on that, DFA fits right in there, and that should suffice.

Right and 20+ Melee mechs are just our imaginations.
There is no melee in game now and that pew-pew only won't suffice for such a good engine that can support anything about gameplay and physics.

Its time for PGI to do something that is not in MWLL already.

[Karl Streiger]

Interesting vote. Me for my part dislike melee weapons on a battlemech.
On some heavy or assault mechs they have their use, but lighter mechs can always use the weight for a weapon.

Meele combat however... hell yes... want to slap a Commando into the face

Edited by Karl Streiger, 13 February 2013 - 04:19 AM.

[CG Oglethorpe Kerensky]

Battlemechs are equipped with massive fusion reactors powering devastating energy weapons, no to mention rail guns, high-explosive autocannons and missiles.

You expect me to believe that slapping another mech with a club is going to do comparable damage to a Particle Cannon or a 200mm slug?

[blinkin]

CG Oglethorpe Kerensky, on 13 February 2013 - 05:25 AM, said:

Battlemechs are equipped with massive fusion reactors powering devastating energy weapons, no to mention rail guns, high-explosive autocannons and missiles.

You expect me to believe that slapping another mech with a club is going to do comparable damage to a Particle Cannon or a 200mm slug?

assault rifles in the real world will hurt a person badly. a person hit with a warhammer (the medievel weapon) is also going to get screwed up.

http://en.wikipedia...._laws_of_motion :
Third law: When a first body exerts a force F₁ on a second body, the second body simultaneously exerts a force F₂ = −F₁ on the first body. This means that F₁ and F₂ are equal in magnitude and opposite in direction.

last i checked a gauss round won't significantly shift your weight. if you are swinging the arm of an enemy assault mech then you yourself must brace for the forces (try swinging a sledge hammer while staying in a normal standing stance, on second thought don't i can't afford the hospital bills). <-do some quick math here and then tell me that melee weapons don't matter.

[Alois Hammer]

Are there Chaperones who assist in poll-making, to ensure that no poll ever makes it to being posted without some outrageously biased responses trying to skew the results?

Or are people just so insistent on getting their way that all polls must ridicule anyone who answers in a way that the polls' creator doesn't want, thus showing their utter juvenility?

• I don't care, Iam pop-sniping all metal things
  
• No, this game is about shooting walking things.
  
• No melee, never, its against Battletech canon !

Seriously, who came up with this "Only a 'tard would vote anything but yes" set of responses?

[blinkin]

Alois Hammer, on 13 February 2013 - 11:33 AM, said:

Are there Chaperones who assist in poll-making, to ensure that no poll ever makes it to being posted without some outrageously biased responses trying to skew the results?

Or are people just so insistent on getting their way that all polls must ridicule anyone who answers in a way that the polls' creator doesn't want, thus showing their utter juvenility?

• I don't care, Iam pop-sniping all metal things
  
• No, this game is about shooting walking things.
  
• No melee, never, its against Battletech canon !

Seriously, who came up with this "Only a 'tard would vote anything but yes" set of responses?

this is actually pretty even handed compared to most that pop up. i can at least make a basic case for some of the no votes.

[MaddMaxx]

Angelos Sanguinum, on 13 February 2013 - 04:04 AM, said:

Orly ? Is it bad counting or just bad joke ? We only have about 8 Mechs with Fists and Hand Animations is a piece of cake, even I can make one in Maya, see screenshot. So 8*2 animations for punch will be impossibly numerous ? Its less than a day work for some pro i suppose.

Right and 20+ Melee mechs are just our imaginations.
There is no melee in game now and that pew-pew only won't suffice for such a good engine that can support anything about gameplay and physics.

Its time for PGI to do something that is not in MWLL already.

Then what are you waiting for dude. Create those simple animations in Mayo and send them in already. Can't be but 1 days work for a pro like yourself. Drop a resume off as well.

P.S. Please link everyone into the Melee Combat system in MWLL.

Edited by MaddMaxx, 13 February 2013 - 12:30 PM.

[Star Captain Obvious Kerensky]

While melee via punches and kicks is perfectly balanced in Table Top, for the purposes of MWO it will probably have to be restricted to equipped melee weapons.

That way only those players who allocated the tonnage to Melee would be able to take advantage of the awesome damage a Melee weapon could do, and serve as another tool in the overall game balance toolbox. Nothing forces someone to keep their distance like seeing a Mech with a Giant Axe.

With Punches/Kicks The real-time nature of MWO would server as too much of an incentive to make every battle end with a fistfight + alpha chest lasers as players attempt to do as much damage as possible.

And for the record: I really, REALLLLLLLY want melee weapons in this game.

[Chou Senwan]

Just think of the timing, though. Press left-shift and left mouse button to punch with your left arm. Over the span of 1 second your mech's torso rotates to the right and your arm stretches forward to hit where you're aiming your arm reticule. Then it takes 1 second for your body to recenter. And if your opponent sees you attacking and moves fast, you'll just miss.

Kicking could do more damage, but would be even harder because you'd need to know which leg is leading, or else you'll trip yourself when you try to kick using the limb all your weight is on. And you can't really aim kicks because you can't look down.

It might be a b**** to code, but I think it could be balanced.

[blinkin]

Chou Senwan, on 13 February 2013 - 12:56 PM, said:

Just think of the timing, though. Press left-shift and left mouse button to punch with your left arm. Over the span of 1 second your mech's torso rotates to the right and your arm stretches forward to hit where you're aiming your arm reticule. Then it takes 1 second for your body to recenter. And if your opponent sees you attacking and moves fast, you'll just miss.

Kicking could do more damage, but would be even harder because you'd need to know which leg is leading, or else you'll trip yourself when you try to kick using the limb all your weight is on. And you can't really aim kicks because you can't look down.

It might be a b**** to code, but I think it could be balanced.

according to the "ask the devs" posts, they are working on it but like you said it is not easy to do right.

i think this would be the first computer based mechwarrior game that includes melee combat if they succeed.

[Angelos Sanguinum]

MaddMaxx, on 13 February 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

Then what are you waiting for dude. Create those simple animations in Mayo and send them in already. Can't be but 1 days work for a pro like yourself. Drop a resume off as well.

You want me to troll devs with this crude animations that I made with Maya tutorials ? Really man ? I talked about pro animations that they making for cryengine and I don't know what they using, because I don't see any devblog about mech modeling .

MaddMaxx, on 13 February 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

P.S. Please link everyone into the Melee Combat system in MWLL.

"something that is not in MWLL" - they closed mod before they could implement melee if I get it right.

CG Oglethorpe Kerensky, on 13 February 2013 - 05:25 AM, said:

Battlemechs are equipped with massive fusion reactors powering devastating energy weapons, no to mention rail guns, high-explosive autocannons and missiles.
You expect me to believe that slapping another mech with a club is going to do comparable damage to a Particle Cannon or a 200mm slug?

Yes if its 16 ton Mace that bring your ****-pit to flat state in 1 hit .
Also slamming Mech Fists with 100 ton momentum and knocking smaller mechs down is comparable with 20AC light shake , oh wait, its not.
Mechs are tons of steel and if there is a way to focus these tons onto surface of few meters, bad things can happen to your target.
Jumpjetting onto knocked down mech as example.

Alois Hammer, on 13 February 2013 - 11:33 AM, said:

Seriously, who came up with this "Only a 'tard would vote anything but yes" set of responses?

You talented people should read this that way :

• I don't care,
  
• No,
  
• No melee, never,

Also :
Why so srs ?

Edited by Angelos Sanguinum, 15 February 2013 - 10:42 AM.