69 replies to this topic

[idle crow]

Something you also missed on the list is the games base cap mechanic. A brawling team can simply move onto your cap and due to the speed at which it goes down and on several of the maps the number of obstructions in the way you cannot slowly pick away at them before the game is lost.

Thankfully we have working Jump Jets again which put a buff back into range play. But I still think the slide is still in favor of brawling.

[MischiefSC]

Mackman, on 11 February 2013 - 07:44 PM, said:

Is there any reason why it shouldn't exist? Why is aiming at something far away with long range weapons a problem?

Also, if you're seeing a 800km headshot any more often than once ever 100 matches, then you've been playing with botters.

The problem is that it destroys the concept and balance of Battletech. Exactly why mechs in BT rarely boat and why speed is not the end-all be-all trump in all weight groups. Regardless of range or weapon hit locations are largely random, hence you can't always count on popping the head or CT out of a target as he closes with you.

I see 600m headshots about 1 game in 6, depending on how often I play Frozen City or Caustic Valley. I'd see them more often but I have trouble escaping the effing River City map.

Davers, on 11 February 2013 - 07:44 PM, said:

It helps if you think of Mechwarrior and Battletech as two distantly related animals.

Battletech is a game of attrition where you try to work out the best chance for you to hit while minimizing your opponent's chances. Luck plays a not insignificant factor.

Mechwarrior is a computer game where you try to get the biggest alpha strike and kill someone in one or two hits.

Yeah, IMO that's part of the problem. Still a lot of balancing left though and I'm curious to see what PGI does. My hope though is to see it move a bit closer to BT than CoD from its current location on the spectrum.

[Steven Dixon]

Sniping tends to have some huge advantages over brawling, like being able to destroy the enemy before they can get to you. PGI designed the maps to give disadvantages to sniping to actually allow different playstyles rather than discouraging them. Snipers are still perfectly viable they just have limitations. I often play as a sniper, I have only average skill and I can do quite well and I've see many, many players that are downright awesome at sniping. If the maps and zoom modes were more sniper friendly it really wouldn't make sense to use anything other than a sniper build unless you were a very fast light mech.

[Mal]

Niko Snow, on 11 February 2013 - 08:06 PM, said:

I'm fairly certain that if any staff member were out to force players to play in a specific manner, we would be far more abusive about it...I, for one, expect a performance of the 2nd Act of Hamlet in my next PUG match.

For that reason, I am changing the name of this thread to something a little less inflammatory.

You mean that wasn't someone from PGI or IGP who came into my house tonight, and made me buy a Splatcat??

Crap... now I wonder who that was....

[Mounty]

Niko Snow, on 11 February 2013 - 08:06 PM, said:

I'm fairly certain that if any staff member were out to force players to play in a specific manner, we would be far more abusive about it...I, for one, expect a performance of the 2nd Act of Hamlet in my next PUG match.

For that reason, I am changing the name of this thread to something a little less inflammatory.

Took me a while to figure out where I read this ....

"One of our early mandates that still holds true today - make MWO relevant to a modern audience. We focused on fun and making the basic gameplay engaging and intense. Core to this concept is forcing the issue through map design, speed of the overal gameplay, and getting players fighting at close range. Which is a slight departure from older MW games."


Quote from Bryan Ekman.

http://kotaku.com/59...stionsright-now

Answer to the second question.

Edited by Mounty, 11 February 2013 - 08:19 PM.

[Lukoi Banacek]

I believe this conspiracy theory would make for a great screenplay opportunity for the likes of Oliver Stone.

When the next two "larger" maps come out, maybe we'll see some improvement on ranges and ranged engagements?

[Megacromulent]

Lukoi, on 11 February 2013 - 08:22 PM, said:

I believe this conspiracy theory would make for a great screenplay opportunity for the likes of Oliver Stone.

When the next two "larger" maps come out, maybe we'll see some improvement on ranges and ranged engagements?

But not if the views are blurred, and the zoom is nerfed...

[Merrik Starchaser]

One Medic Army, on 11 February 2013 - 06:43 PM, said:

Several hills on Frozen City

The hills in frozen city cannot be considered sniping spots as they are all within ML range of nearby crests and cover for the other team. The ones back far enough to be sniper perch's have deliberate obstructions preventing a good line of fire on multiple map points. (the tallest building in frozen city provides one glaring example of an obstruction.)

Edited by Merrik Starchaser, 11 February 2013 - 08:30 PM.

[Warrax the Chaos Warrior]

Niko Snow, on 11 February 2013 - 08:06 PM, said:

I'm fairly certain that if any staff member were out to force players to play in a specific manner, we would be far more abusive about it...I, for one, expect a performance of the 2nd Act of Hamlet in my next PUG match.

For that reason, I am changing the name of this thread to something a little less inflammatory.

Oh that's just typical. Julius Caesar fits my playstyle better, I'll ragequit if you try to make me do Hamlet.

[Tethyss]

Have you played 8v8 in TableTop? It can take a really long time.

You can wait for the larger map but there is still the timer. Sniping is profitable for a few minutes but this is not a CoD/CS type game so, get your snipes in, then move in with your teammates.

I would not want to wait for a match to end because two snipers were left jockeying for position and advantage -- no one would.

[MischiefSC]

Niko Snow, on 11 February 2013 - 08:06 PM, said:

I'm fairly certain that if any staff member were out to force players to play in a specific manner, we would be far more abusive about it...I, for one, expect a performance of the 2nd Act of Hamlet in my next PUG match.

For that reason, I am changing the name of this thread to something a little less inflammatory.

Hamlet: Act 2, Scene 1


Enter old POLONIUS with his man [REYNALDO].
POLONIUS
Give him this money and these notes, Reynaldo.
REYNALDO
I will, my lord.
POLONIUS
You shall do marvel's wisely, good Reynaldo,
Before you visit him, to make inquire
Of his behavior.
REYNALDO
My lord, I did intend it.
POLONIUS
Marry, well said; very well said. Look you, sir,
Inquire me first what Danskers are in Paris;
And how, and who, what means, and where they keep,
What company, at what expense; and finding
By this encompassment and drift of question
That they do know my son, come you more nearer
Than your particular demands will touch it:
Take you, as 'twere, some distant knowledge of him;
As thus, "I know his father and his friends,
And in part him." Do you mark this, Reynaldo?
REYNALDO
Ay, very well, my lord.
POLONIUS
"And in part him—but," you may say "not well.
But, if't be he I mean, he's very wild;
Addicted so and so," and there put on him
What forgeries you please; marry, none so rank
As may dishonor him; take heed of that;
But, sir, such wanton, wild and usual slips
As are companions noted and most known
To youth and liberty

Scene 2 is where it gets good. Rosencrantz and Guildenstern!

Who wants to play Polonius? I'm holding out for the King in Scene 2. Randy old fratricide, he's clearly got it goin' ON.

[Spinning Burr]

There are plenty of opportunities for elevated platform snipers requiring jump jets to access and there are plenty of opportunities for concealed ground based snipers on every map except Caustic Valley which is just very condusive to open valley long range sniping. Instead of lying prone, try peeking your mech behind cover and barely revealing only one side (either an arm or arm and side torso). Build your dedicated sniper mech by stacking all the sniper weapons on one side as the strong side. Give that side all the weapons and all the armor. It is lopsided, but this is the side you reveal as a dedicated concealed sniper. Mechs that are conducive to this asymmetric build are: Muromets, Phract 3D, and all Dragons. The 3D is the "best" sniper platform by design as it is both a jump jet elevated platform based sniper and asymmetric (right sided) loadout sniper to snipe behind cover.

[Corvus Antaka]

I always find the circle strafing comment very funny. The circle of death is classic mechwarrior, and I really don't understand why they would want to limit it with map design, we still see it a lot anyhow...lol

[Soulscour]

Tethyss, on 11 February 2013 - 09:08 PM, said:

Have you played 8v8 in TableTop? It can take a really long time.

Thats why they're making that mechwarrior tactics game.

[Sephlock]

Dran, on 11 February 2013 - 06:20 PM, said:

Was quite disappointed that they got rid of that spot. Was great for LRM or PPC/Gauss players :/

Didn't they also remove access to a valley on another map?

[Mr Mantis]

I think role warfare is the most needed thing to be emphasized in the game. But not just sniping, i am talking scouting, tanking, brawling, LRM support, ECM support. We need more things to emphasis these roles, including modules, map changes, zoom enhancements, team chat. But as for now i am fine with just some big fixes, more content, and better stability of the game.

[Megacromulent]

Tethyss, on 11 February 2013 - 09:08 PM, said:

Have you played 8v8 in TableTop? It can take a really long time.

I've played with 30+ people in a rented hall with massive 3d hex maps. (it was awesome)

Tethyss, on 11 February 2013 - 09:08 PM, said:

You can wait for the larger map but there is still the timer. Sniping is profitable for a few minutes but this is not a CoD/CS type game so, get your snipes in, then move in with your teammates.

I would not want to wait for a match to end because two snipers were left jockeying for position and advantage -- no one would.

Yes, this is why there needs to be multiple game play options, instead of just TDM. 1v1, 2v2 on TDM could be implemented right now, with little to no extra coding, then time issue affecting many people is no longer a factor. But if there were actual roles, real targets to hit, defend, etc... then all piling together to survive would not be the only viable tactic.

Mr Mantis, on 11 February 2013 - 09:32 PM, said:

I think role warfare is the most needed thing to be emphasized in the game. But not just sniping, i am talking scouting, tanking, brawling, LRM support, ECM support. We need more things to emphasis these roles, including modules, map changes, zoom enhancements, team chat. But as for now i am fine with just some big fixes, more content, and better stability of the game.

I absolutely agree, but my OP was about specific actions that _removed_ the ability to use long range sniping as a tactic. The latest change was removing a high location on river city...

Edited by Megachromulent, 11 February 2013 - 09:36 PM.

[Kenyon Burguess]

1. iirc they announced larger maps coming recently. 2. zoom has ALWAYS been iffy with the quality you could see 3. I snipe all the time with my ERPPC on my cent. instead of standing on a building like some kind of inbred vulture, I place 75% of my torso behind cover and only expose the arm to do it. 4. now that I explained how I do number 3, you have proof that were not forced to play the same.

Edited by Geist Null, 11 February 2013 - 09:43 PM.

[Mycrus]

Death to ppc stalkers...

[Ripnfly]

Sniping in this game means you are vunerable to be shot, there really isnt a way to hid a 50+ ton mech, if you want to kill people at range you need to think more along the lines of hit and run away and maintain your range advantage. A good brawling player especially in 8 man will not have an XL engine, that means you can have a speed advantage on him or her, thats your "sniping" however that requires your entire team to be in on the tactic 4 brawlers and 4 snipers doesnt remotly come close to working.


In addition to moving fast that means activly moving around the map and surrounding your enemy its not a popular tactic because most teams bring assaults if you truly want to snip teams down you need 6 heavies and 2 3l's and 1 group of 4 constantly running and creating space on the map while 1 team hits them from the other side. all heavies need Xl's and need to move at 80+ and still mount atleast an alpha of 30 at 700 +. Oh and if they base cap you gl cuz its over.


Long story shot the map size is what makes it feel impossible.

You dont have an epic battlefield of unlimited space to kit someone in you have an octigon.