133 replies to this topic

[Wintersdark]

To clarify: The stalker with SRM's is a damned dangerous mech, but it's not at all in the same class as the A1. The A1, with it's torso twise, jump jets and added speed, isn't limited to throwing it's fistfuls of missiles into an enemy mech's face but can easily put it's 90 damage payload into vulnerable rear armour.

It's a different animal entirely.

[QuantumButler]

Wintersdark, on 12 February 2013 - 11:06 AM, said:

Making it trash in comparison.

When you're rocking a short ranged machine that is only really effective inside 180m, you really want speed.

SRM Stalker's are dangerous - they're a tooled assault, after all. They can utterly wreck other assaults and the odd slow heavy - and god help anyone else that meets one by surprised.

However, overall? I argue that one of the weaknesses of the A1 is that at 80 some odd kph it's kind of slow for a purely short range loadout. My approach fighting A1's is to simply outrange and de-ear them.

SRM stalkers are a bit of a joke. If I spot one farther out, it's trivial to stay at range and beat them down.

I've no doubt they wreck pugs, though, who don't bother to check enemy mech loadouts before running into their faces.

Which is why I and some others run a Stalker with 2 ppcs and 4 srm6s, covers all your bases.

not to say it can't be killed or is perfect, but it's a nasty contender at all ranges.

Edited by QuantumButler, 12 February 2013 - 11:20 AM.

[Garth Erlam]

Darwins Dog, on 12 February 2013 - 06:21 AM, said:

The A1 is the superior SRM boat (imho) due to the widest torso twist arc in the game, and the speed to actually close in to SRM range. The stalker is a lot easier to avoid, so unless they catch you in a narrow corridor by surprise, they aren't dangerous. Just 2 cents from a light/cicada pilot.

As a similar pilot (Light/Cicada) I agree - the Stalker (especially the non 3F) are so slow to turn I don't worry about their SRM variants as much. In fact, I got a 'wow, you took me apart' compliment from a Stalker pilot who I managed to rear-core, while taking zero damage from him, simply because he couldn't turn fast enough to hit me.

Then I died to about 5000 LRMs, so there's that too.

[Zerstorer Stallin]

The problem is plaining a "boating" problem. Its not cat, but the small maps where brawling is king, and boating is the king of brawling. Sometimes I think they would have been better with no hard points and just rules like no more than 2 of any one weapon. Hard points so far is fail, its a race to the FOTM mech.

Garth Erlam, on 12 February 2013 - 11:22 AM, said:

As a similar pilot (Light/Cicada) I agree - the Stalker (especially the non 3F) are so slow to turn I don't worry about their SRM variants as much. In fact, I got a 'wow, you took me apart' compliment from a Stalker pilot who I managed to rear-core, while taking zero damage from him, simply because he couldn't turn fast enough to hit me.

Then I died to about 5000 LRMs, so there's that too.

thats great, what if you were piloting a heavy, Assualt or even some Med builds that are slower?

[Franchi]

Zerstorer Stallin, on 12 February 2013 - 11:36 AM, said:

thats great, what if you were piloting a heavy, Assualt or even some Med builds that are slower?

What heavy or medium that goes less than 62 can be found in a drop these days? In the front lines?

Assault on a assault I still would not bet on the stalker, what ever it is facing will likely have more long range punch, srm6's without Artemis are nearly worthless beyond 90m versus an assault, to much damage spread.

[DrxAbstract]

Cant say as i have an issue with the A1 SRM config; compared to the A1 Streak config, it's much easier to approach and handle. Its effective range is easily half, it's slower, runs hotter, carries less ammo, is subject to aiming difficulties and cant use the 360 Module to shoot you after you're beyond its firing arcs... as far as a straight threat level comparison goes.

Up until about 100 meters, it's not more or as dangerous as the Streak, AC20 or Gauss configs which can hit you accurately from twice, four times and 10 times the distance. The A1 SRM hurts people with the weakest awareness the most, because speed is irrelevant - you should have enough of the proper weapons to be hitting the thing from at least 300 meters away to soften up that CT/Head before it's even a threat, however many people dont even realize they're fighting one until it comes around a building/hill/JJs into view and alphas them in the most inconvenient places... in which case, what mech at 60+ tons isnt painful when that happens?

The issue i see is most mechs in that tonnage area have at least one key advantage over the SRM cat that isnt being utilized, typically range combined with either speed or pinpoint damage distribution, occasionally maneuverability(JJs), range and pinpoint damage.

Before you cry "A1 pilot", i dont own one, not even for novelty. When i feel like driving a Catapult i use my Founders C1. For ****s ands giggles i dropped the Artemis+LRMs, threw on a 300XL, 2 LPlas, 2Mlas and 2 SRM6s with 1 JJ. Now i cant say this will always be the case, but i was absolutely wrecking SRM A1s and Stalkers just from using my lasers the moment they stepped inside of 400m and when they ducked behind buildings (River City) i used that as an opportunity to fall back to more open ground away from close quarters to maintain the advantage - no JJs required. If you're slower it still takes time to catch you, even in a 58kph Atlas.

How many of you just run right at them and fight point blank? <--- biggest issue with A1s, which isnt a problem caused by the mech/variant.

Point in case, if you cant overcome an opposing mech or specific variant with firepower then chances are some smart piloting will suffice. You cant always win, but there are ways to improve your odds.

[Mechteric]

My view on this (after having Elited 3 Stalkers) is that the Stalker is a great mid to long range mech. Its ability to mount tons of LRMS (if you are so inclined) or Lasers/PPCs is unrivaled, and to complement this the high position of the direct fire weapons on its arms are great for shooting over a ridge while barely exposing your body to enemy fire.

But as a brawler it absolutely falls short and will not be able to hold its own like an Atlas can. Its lack of sideways arm aiming, extremely limited torso twist angle, and large side torsos that are easy to hit means you can't distribute the damage to your arms like an Atlas and are going to have issues tracking faster moving target with your weapons.

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 12 February 2013 - 11:57 AM.

[Golfin Man]

Stalkers can go a very deadly 62 kph with a std 300 and speed tweak, or 58 with a std 280 and speed tweak. This is surprisingly fast, just wait until you catch a slow heavy, ie someone going 65 who thinks they can shake your 50 kph assault easily. When you're keeping up with them unloading your 10 hardpoints into them come back and tell me stalkers are incredibly slow.

[DrxAbstract]

CapperDeluxe, on 12 February 2013 - 11:57 AM, said:

My view on this (after having Elited 3 Stalkers) is that the Stalker is a great mid to long range mech. Its ability to mount tons of LRMS (if you are so inclined) or Lasers/PPCs is unrivaled, and to complement this the high position of the direct fire weapons on its arms are great for shooting over a ridge while barely exposing your body to enemy fire.

But as a brawler it absolutely falls short and will not be able to hold its own like an Atlas can. Its lack of sideways arm aiming, extremely limited torso twist angle, and large side torsos that are easy to hit means you can't distribute the damage to your arms like an Atlas and are going to have issues tracking faster moving target with your weapons.

Agreed. If given the choice, i would not choose a Stalker for close-range fighting... But after driving one for a while i can say heaven help anyone that gets caught in front of one...

[Franchi]

Golfin Man, on 12 February 2013 - 12:01 PM, said:

Stalkers can go a very deadly 62 kph with a std 300 and speed tweak, or 58 with a std 280 and speed tweak. This is surprisingly fast, just wait until you catch a slow heavy, ie someone going 65 who thinks they can shake your 50 kph assault easily. When you're keeping up with them unloading your 10 hardpoints into them come back and tell me stalkers are incredibly slow.

Anything under 70 is SLOW.

DrxAbstract, on 12 February 2013 - 11:55 AM, said:

Cant say as i have an issue with the A1 SRM config; compared to the A1 Streak config, it's much easier to approach and handle. Its effective range is easily half, it's slower, runs hotter, carries less ammo, is subject to aiming difficulties and cant use the 360 Module to shoot you after you're beyond its firing arcs... as far as a straight threat level comparison goes.

Up until about 100 meters, it's not more or as dangerous as the Streak, AC20 or Gauss configs which can hit you accurately from twice, four times and 10 times the distance. The A1 SRM hurts people with the weakest awareness the most, because speed is irrelevant - you should have enough of the proper weapons to be hitting the thing from at least 300 meters away to soften up that CT/Head before it's even a threat, however many people dont even realize they're fighting one until it comes around a building/hill/JJs into view and alphas them in the most inconvenient places... in which case, what mech at 60+ tons isnt painful when that happens?

The issue i see is most mechs in that tonnage area have at least one key advantage over the SRM cat that isnt being utilized, typically range combined with either speed or pinpoint damage distribution, occasionally maneuverability(JJs), range and pinpoint damage.

Before you cry "A1 pilot", i dont own one, not even for novelty. When i feel like driving a Catapult i use my Founders C1. For ****s ands giggles i dropped the Artemis+LRMs, threw on a 300XL, 2 LPlas, 2Mlas and 2 SRM6s with 1 JJ. Now i cant say this will always be the case, but i was absolutely wrecking SRM A1s and Stalkers just from using my lasers the moment they stepped inside of 400m and when they ducked behind buildings (River City) i used that as an opportunity to fall back to more open ground away from close quarters to maintain the advantage - no JJs required. If you're slower it still takes time to catch you, even in a 58kph Atlas.

How many of you just run right at them and fight point blank? <--- biggest issue with A1s, which isnt a problem caused by the mech/variant.

Point in case, if you cant overcome an opposing mech or specific variant with firepower then chances are some smart piloting will suffice. You cant always win, but there are ways to improve your odds.

Driving 6pack well is all about dictating the engagement, fighting one as you have pointed out is exactly the same.

The reason people think its op is the current tiny maps, aside from caustic the maps are drowning in cover making it easy for a mech doing 80KPH to move from cover to cover close with the enemy hit and fade back into cover. as we get larger maps with less cover we will see less 6 packs.

Edited by Franchi, 12 February 2013 - 12:08 PM.

[Culler]

Brilliant idea! Take a strictly short-range only weapon and put it on an incredibly slow platform so that anyone who doesn't want to get hit by you can just leave and pepper you at range until you die. It's flawless! Well, except for its many flaws.

[Vlad Ward]

The average Stalker runs into the same problem as the average Atlas - people just don't realize they should be maxing out or nearly maxing out their Engine. With a 300STD (Stalker) or 350STD (Atlas), you turn more than fast enough to horizontally track the vast majority of things, and it only takes one good shot from a Stalker to end a promising young Light pilot's career.

The Stalker is superior to the Catapult for one reason alone: 6 Medium Lasers that put all their damage on a single component at more than twice the viable range of SRMs. Significantly more flexible Heat management is a plus, too.

SRM stalkers shouldn't be using Endo, though. You have way more tonnage than Crit slots for DHS in that thing.

Edit: Comparing the forward velocity of the Stalker to anything save a Light is a waste of time. How many Hunchbacks running 90kph are a real threat to anything while they have their back turned running full tilt away from your 65kph Assault? Considering they have to face you to fire on you and all that, and their own weapons loadouts are unlikely to have a significantly greater range than your own, the speed difference is really quite moot in combat.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 12 February 2013 - 12:08 PM.

[DrxAbstract]

Culler, on 12 February 2013 - 12:04 PM, said:

Brilliant idea! Take a strictly short-range only weapon and put it on an incredibly slow platform so that anyone who doesn't want to get hit by you can just leave and pepper you at range until you die. It's flawless! Well, except for its many flaws.

Typical SRM Stalker carries multiple Mlas, so unless you're packing Llas or AC10, 5, 2 or Gauss, you dont really have the direct-fire range advantage... assuming they arent using Llas as well.

[Ngamok]

DrxAbstract, on 12 February 2013 - 12:02 PM, said:

Agreed. If given the choice, i would not choose a Stalker for close-range fighting... But after driving one for a while i can say heaven help anyone that gets caught in front of one...

Yea, if you can't out turn them, you are going to be toast. To fight them, you need to be faster. I have one with a 280 or 290 std engine and it's gets the job done for mechs I can keep up with. But for the faster mechs Dragon or below that can go 90+ they can stay behind me all day and kill me. And I can as well when I am in my Hunchback or Cicada. I can tear open their side torsos pretty fast.

[Ngamok]

Vlad Ward, on 12 February 2013 - 12:05 PM, said:

The average Stalker runs into the same problem as the average Atlas - people just don't realize they should be maxing out or nearly maxing out their Engine. With a 300STD (Stalker) or 350STD (Atlas), you turn more than fast enough to horizontally track the vast majority of things, and it only takes one good shot from a Stalker to end a promising young Light pilot's career.

The Stalker is superior to the Catapult for one reason alone: 6 Medium Lasers that put all their damage on a single component at more than twice the viable range of SRMs. Significantly more flexible Heat management is a plus, too.

SRM stalkers shouldn't be using Endo, though. You have way more tonnage than Crit slots for DHS in that thing.

Edit: Comparing the forward velocity of the Stalker to anything save a Light is a waste of time. How many Hunchbacks running 90kph are a real threat to anything while they have their back turned running full tilt away from your 65kph Assault? Considering they have to face you to fire on you and all that, and their own weapons loadouts are unlikely to have a significantly greater range than your own, the speed difference is really quite moot in combat.

I don'ty turn my back to a Stalker or any assault in my 4SP or 4G. I get around behind them and start blasting away. If I have to run away from them, it's 180 degrees past them as they take forever to turn around. No right minded pilot will ever run away from a heavy hitter right in front of them.

[DrxAbstract]

Vlad Ward, on 12 February 2013 - 12:05 PM, said:

The average Stalker runs into the same problem as the average Atlas - people just don't realize they should be maxing out or nearly maxing out their Engine. With a 300STD (Stalker) or 350STD (Atlas), you turn more than fast enough to horizontally track the vast majority of things, and it only takes one good shot from a Stalker to end a promising young Light pilot's career.

The Stalker is superior to the Catapult for one reason alone: 6 Medium Lasers that put all their damage on a single component at more than twice the viable range of SRMs. Significantly more flexible Heat management is a plus, too.

SRM stalkers shouldn't be using Endo, though. You have way more tonnage than Crit slots for DHS in that thing.

I experimented with the 4 SRM6, 6 Mlas design and found a 300STD with Endo could mount enough SHS for slightly better heat dissipation, although i cant recall if that was using 2 SRM4, 2 SRM6 or all 4 SRM6.

[Vlad Ward]

Ngamok, on 12 February 2013 - 12:12 PM, said:

I don'ty turn my back to a Stalker or any assault in my 4SP or 4G. I get around behind them and start blasting away. If I have to run away from them, it's 180 degrees past them as they take forever to turn around. No right minded pilot will ever run away from a heavy hitter right in front of them.

If you're able to get behind a 65kph Assault pilot (of any Chassis) in anything slower than a 140kph Light, that Assault pilot is just plain bad.

That may work for you against PUGs, but don't rely on it anywhere else.

[Franchi]

Vlad Ward, on 12 February 2013 - 12:05 PM, said:

The average Stalker runs into the same problem as the average Atlas - people just don't realize they should be maxing out or nearly maxing out their Engine. With a 300STD (Stalker) or 350STD (Atlas), you turn more than fast enough to horizontally track the vast majority of things, and it only takes one good shot from a Stalker to end a promising young Light pilot's career.

The Stalker is superior to the Catapult for one reason alone: 6 Medium Lasers that put all their damage on a single component at more than twice the viable range of SRMs. Significantly more flexible Heat management is a plus, too.

SRM stalkers shouldn't be using Endo, though. You have way more tonnage than Crit slots for DHS in that thing.

Edit: Comparing the forward velocity of the Stalker to anything save a Light is a waste of time. How many Hunchbacks running 90kph are a real threat to anything while they have their back turned running full tilt away from your 65kph Assault? Considering they have to face you to fire on you and all that, and their own weapons loadouts are unlikely to have a significantly greater range than your own, the speed difference is really quite moot in combat.

This thread is about the SRM cat versus the SRM stalker, specifically the OP's opinion that the stalker is the better SRM boat.

One on one with equally skilled pilots the cat will kill the stalker nearly every time current maps have abundanat cover, the cat should not be taking many hits from ML's while closing.

Once the gap is closed the cat can run circles around the stalker, a 20KPH speed advantage to the cat combined with the torso twist disadvantage to the stalker means that as long as the cat pays attention he can get back into cover, reverse or JJ every time the stalker tries to hard brake and turn.

Versus fast mediums and other heavies the cat again has the advantage because they can do to the stalker what the cat does to the stalker where as the cat can fight back.

The only slow heavies are snipers and the cat can close with and kill them faster, where the stalker will spend far more time in the snipers effective range.

Slow mediums are nearly non existent probably because they get slaughtered by everyone.

Vlad Ward, on 12 February 2013 - 12:14 PM, said:

If you're able to get behind a 65kph Assault pilot (of any Chassis) in anything slower than a 140kph Light, that Assault pilot is just plain bad.

That may work for you against PUGs, but don't rely on it anywhere else.

You don't need to stay "behind" them, you just have to stay out of their firing arc, and the stalker has the worst firing arc in the game.

Edited by Franchi, 12 February 2013 - 12:21 PM.

[Vlad Ward]

DrxAbstract, on 12 February 2013 - 12:13 PM, said:

I experimented with the 4 SRM6, 6 Mlas design and found a 300STD with Endo could mount enough SHS for slightly better heat dissipation, although i cant recall if that was using 2 SRM4, 2 SRM6 or all 4 SRM6.

You would need 37 SHS to have (barely) more heat dissipation than my 4SRM6 6ML 300STD STK-3F. Endo saves you 4.25 tons on an 85 ton Assault. Where are the other 11.75 tons coming from?

Franchi, on 12 February 2013 - 12:14 PM, said:

This thread is about the SRM cat versus the SRM stalker, specifically the OP's opinion that the stalker is the better SRM boat.

One on one with equally skilled pilots the cat will kill the stalker nearly every time current maps have abundanat cover, the cat should not be taking many hits from ML's while closing. Once the gap is closed the cat can run circles around the stalker, a 20KPH speed advantage to the cat combined with the torso twist disadvantage to the stalker means that as long as the cat pays attention he can get back into cover or JJ every time the stalker tries to hard brake and turn.

Versus mediums and other heavies the cat again has the advantage, the only slow heavies are snipers, and slow mediums are nearly non existent.

See Above. If you're getting behind Assaults in a Medium/Heavy, you're facing bad Assaults.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 12 February 2013 - 12:17 PM.

[Rina Fujimoto]

Everyone keeps going off about "B-BUT MUH EXTRA LASERS" while conveniently forgetting that if you use them in tandem with the SRM's you'll overheat after 2 volleys and lose your ridiculously easy to hit RT/LT.