139 replies to this topic

[Mazzyplz]

guys, let's not lose track of things here;

i don't think the OP is an elitist jerk who believes you need to break 1000dmg or you should be banned for being a noob - edit: except those 12 guys who voted 1000+ on the poll...

rather i think he's a noob who wants to have a measuring stick to see his own progress, many people are not up there with you guys making cockpit shots on target time after time with lasers and may never be if they choose to go with missiles or lbx cannon

let them use dmg as a way of telling how much death they're potentially dealing just for noob, if we assume to the center torso then all is well, right?
there's no reason to get hostile or call anyone a deluded ***** -or anything of the sort


edit: also of note; that if everyone in a team is skilled enough, you simply won't go over 220-330; this is what happens when a team works like a machine. all will have high number of assist and similar damage

Edited by Mazzyplz, 14 February 2013 - 09:57 PM.

[SpiralRazor]

LOL @ the people who voted for total damage doesnt matter......any competent light pilot can pull of 150+ regularly, and the only people under 150 are bads and people who get one/two shotted IE unlucky that match.

[Jetfire]

200 Damage in most cases should be the goal. At that point you should be able to core out just about anything even with bad aim. If you can add on focus fire, you are gold.

[De La Fresniere]

You could kill the entire opposing team with 264 damage, or deal 1000 damage and not kill anyone, so pure damage is a terrible metric to gauge someone's efficiency.

Also, the mech's firepower should be taken into account. If you give the opposing team an Assault mech (by using an Assault yourself), you better perform damn better than the guy who gave the opposing team a Light.

Of course, there should be a bare minimum damage dealt... people who die with less than 50 damage dealt puzzle me.

[Huntsman]

While I would agree it's not all about damage, there is a point where ya look at the scoreboad and wonder what some players were doing all round.

Naturally its tough to assume because low damage but multiple kills could suggest accuracy, but more often it actually means the player was lucky enough to deal the last shot. Conversely, high damage and no kills may suggest inaccuracy, but moreoften it means that someone else kept swooping in for the killing blow, even though he did most of the damage.

Also worthy of note is that snipers often do less damage than brawlers.

The long and short of it is that a player has a longstanding showing for relatively low damage, odds are, he's not a great player. So often I'm in a 4-man, and my guys have 400-1000+ damage each while our PUGs are all sitting on less than 100 damage each with no kills. *sigh*

[StalaggtIKE]

Let's say you have a dedicated spotter on your team. He's able to TAG people for your LRM boates. Those boaters are scoring a lot of damage, while the spotter getting little if any at all. I would say that spotter still played a big part.

[Vincent Quatermain]

StalaggtIKE, on 15 February 2013 - 07:29 AM, said:

Let's say you have a dedicated spotter on your team. He's able to TAG people for your LRM boates. Those boaters are scoring a lot of damage, while the spotter getting little if any at all. I would say that spotter still played a big part.

Yes, this "brilliant" insight has been mentioned already.

Of course, the OP is asking about a target metric -- i.e. the AVERAGE damage that one should be doing.

Unless you ALWAYS drive a light mech with TAG (while grouped with LRM boats), your average damage over many matches should rise above a certain minimum. Citing a bunch of weird outlier cases does not change the fact that damage dealt is highly correlated with matches won.

If your damage to weight ratio is less than 3.0, you suck. Period. End of story. It doesn't matter what you drive, or how you drive it -- you still suck. If you're new to the game, this is is understandable. Keep at it and you'll get better.

But if you aren't new to the game and your stats are that low, you are making excuses for gross incompetence. Stop making excuses, figure out why you are doing poorly, and change your habits.

[SirSlaughter]

There is no answer to the question. Everything is relative. Match lenght, weapons, etc...

BUT

How in the hell do people manage to deal 3 damage (without dying) in a match?? Random collisions maybe...

Edited by SirSlaughter, 15 February 2013 - 09:12 AM.

[KingKalvin]

Damage does not matter.

I'd prefer a light mech doing good scout over a light mech brawling to dish 100 damage and die right away.
I'd prefer 300 damage with 2 enemy mechs dead over 600 damage with 2 enemy mechs dead.

[MaddMaxx]

The 12 votes for 1000+ just shows how much of a "waste of time" these types of Polls are.

If those 12 players "really" believe that, then I feel for them because it is highly likely that they themselves suck so bad, that they will "never" get 1K+ damage every match. If they just clicked for giggles, the whole Poll is ruined, if it has "any" possible merit to start with.

Edited by MaddMaxx, 15 February 2013 - 09:37 AM.

[ApolloKaras]

There have been games in Caustic Valley where I have done zero damage. I just sat back and tagged everyone on the opposing team without them noticing I was there. I just sat back and watched LRM's fall from the heavens lol. However I do thing that, in that instance I was definitely contributing.

[Kurshuk]

Damage is a metric. Right now the benefits in terms of reward are tied to damage because destroying componants, killing a mech, assisting a kill, or doing damage are all directly rewarded in an easy way. So I focus on high damage builds and when I'm doing well I crank out 1000+ consistantly and typically make 250k a match.

I wish we could 'tip' players on our team for being useful. Like a 5k or 10k cbill bonus that comes out of my cash and goes to the other players. I'd like to be able to say thanks for tagging in a tangible rewards based way.

I know I bring the damage, and I do it well. But there are people in PUG games that have tagged for me the entire match and probably made next to nothing because they were doing their role right, but the rewards aren't there. I couldn't achieve the results that I do if they had been absent and I want to recognize their contribution to the team. So much so that I'd be happy to kick 5-10k to the players to help me get to those numbers.

The mechs I use as a shield, the mechs that tag, the scout mechs that communicate information. These all have a value to me, but damage isn't necessarily a good judge.

Kurshuk

[Jman5]

Wispsy, on 14 February 2013 - 06:44 PM, said:

So tell me...this anecdote fits perfectly, not that long ago I had a match with 2 1shot headshots on a heavy and an assault and a clean back core on a cataphract, I also stole the final bit of another kill. I had something around 170ish damage and the game lasted under 3 and a half minutes, was I being carried? I would like to point out I was in a Jenner, both headshots were done before the team even arrived and the cataphract was jumpsniping at them from slightly further away when they turned up.

So....why would I have been more useful if I had sprayed my lasers multiple times over a random mech, managed 200+ damage and killed an arm and a side torso in total? Yeah...

Damage is only a good indicator of worth when the whole group is not very good at hitting where they aim, so you can see who actually hit the enemy more often, no matter where it was (or who got ammo explosions). If all 8 people on your team are at the top of their game in accuracy then nobody on the whole scoreboard will break 300 dmg barring ammo explosions.


Edit: Also you would not believe the amount of times I do not even need to fire....just run up to some assault and make sure he sees me going behind him. He will turn and just get cored from the back by 2/3+ teammates, I get no damage as it would be pointless me wasting a shot (6Medpulse is hot ok) on that completely clean and fresh frontal armour yet the Atlas has just died without hitting a soul also. Am I useless? Should I have stayed infront of him and all of us got 100-200 each shooting off armour and components on the random whilst being shot back at?

Wispsy, if you can headshot at will, then you should literally never lose a game because the cockpit is so lightly armored. In fact, you could carry any team to victory single handedly with that skill.

In my experience, I find headshots to be so rare at all levels of competitions that it's more luck (or stupidity on their part) than anything else. I could probably count on two hands the number of times I've been headshotted since I began playing this game back in October.

These are exceptions that prove the rule. Unless you are some sort of aimbot god who can headshot at will, or consistently win by not firing a shot (capturing or being a decoy), you should be doing at least 200 damage.

For the rest of us mortals, I think 200 damage is a good minimum for any mech over 40 damage.

Edited by Jman5, 15 February 2013 - 12:47 PM.

[Shibas]

MaddMaxx, on 15 February 2013 - 09:36 AM, said:

The 12 votes for 1000+ just shows how much of a "waste of time" these types of Polls are.

If those 12 players "really" believe that, then I feel for them because it is highly likely that they themselves suck so bad, that they will "never" get 1K+ damage every match. If they just clicked for giggles, the whole Poll is ruined, if it has "any" possible merit to start with.

Why should those votes be considered any less than the others in there "legitimacy"?

[Odins Fist]

Fungeh, on 14 February 2013 - 06:05 AM, said:

It's not all about damage,

.
Then only use 2 small lasers... F.Y.I. Snipers only make a difference against poor pilots, or they get lucky.

[Nostram]

Honestly, damage required to be considered useful depends on several factors. The pilot, the mech, the build, the team-mates, the opposing team & even the objective (assault/conquest for the moment)

[GalaxyBluestar]

by this formula a person who can get 3 headshots is no credit to the team.

flawed concept of damage = team player usefullness is flawed.

a good team actually helps your score by not dieing quickly and thus giving you breathing space to launch multiple attacks to get your score up

a bad team means you have one minute to get a lot before you're swamped to death, damage done is really a poor benchmark for individual player effectiveness.

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 16 February 2013 - 02:48 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

500.

[Glythe]

With a team of 8 players you should expect every player to deal about 200 damage in a perfect world. If everyone does that much the game is pretty much over at that point. If you are dealing 400 damage then you are carrying your team (especially if you are a light mech). If you are doing 800 damage or more you basically are the team.

Note: If you are using LRMs you need to double these numbers to be pulling extra weight because most of the time someone is spotting for you and they are taking damage as a result.

Fungeh, on 14 February 2013 - 06:05 AM, said:

It's not all about damage, good snipers can get plenty of kills with very little damage

But it rarely ever happens that way. However you can be a huge asset without doing much damage; smart lights are a perfect example of this fact. I've seen some spiders do some crazy spotting from on high. A good scout can foil a tunnel rush and let the team know to reposition to squash the push.

When I'm running with some of my friends we have a lance that typically has a damage score similar to this: 600, 500, 400, and 350. Our lance usually ends up with 50% of the kills or more. When you have 4 people with scores like this the only way you are going to lose is if you have a similar team on the opposite side.

My best mech (founders Atlas) can pull in 600-800 damage consistently and I'll usually have a few games every night close to 1000 damage [no LRMs]. When I play my Commando or Jenner I average about 400 damage. I don't run mechs that prevent me from dealing 400 damage or less because I could be doing much better with another mech. The obvious exception to this is when I'm breaking in a new trio.

If you are in a heavy or assault mech and you're only putting up about 200 damage you might want to reconsider your build or tactics (unless the enemy team is dying very fast under the perfect team scenario).

Edited by Glythe, 16 February 2013 - 04:04 AM.