139 replies to this topic

[TexAce]

I can headshot 3 mechs while staying under 100 damage.

enough said?

crap vote is crap

[Hawkwings]

To everyone saying that damage is the end-all be-all and that there's no point to a cap win, all I have to say to you is... see you in community warfare!

[WVAnonymous]

TexAss, on 14 February 2013 - 01:08 PM, said:

I can headshot 3 mechs while staying under 100 damage.

enough said?

crap vote is crap

Yep. I frequently run a 4 LL Awesome and can get kills with 72 damage (not quite to 1 headshot consistency yet). The "match score" makes me feel like people think I'm kill stealing because I can have 2 or 3 kills but I'm mid-pack on the leader board. I support the other posters calling for a less damage-centric score system. Particularly if I can get down to kills with 36 damage...

(My KDR is well under 1, by the way so not doing any e-peening here)

Edited by WVAnonymous, 14 February 2013 - 01:18 PM.

[Sean von Steinike]

You could go out with nothing but a TAG and end up being one of the most important members of the team if you are spotting good for LRM boats.

[Mystere]

If not for my TAG, you yellow LRM boats in the back will all be useless against those D-DC equipped Steiner scout lances.

Edited by Mystere, 14 February 2013 - 01:24 PM.

[decman117]

If you're going to judge someone's usefulness to a team, do it by watching what they do.

A jenner doing <100 damage, but distracting enemies is worth far more than the LRM boat stacking huge damage, with half of it on friendlies.

A hunchback keeping enemy lights busy won't hit as much damage, but will be more useful than a friendly stalker standing behind you stopping you from retreating, while wasting ammo into you. (this actually happened)

A cataphract methodically ripping cockpits apart is more help than a 6SRM6 cat walking up to enemies and ripping them apart, then running out of ammo.


The only TRUE measure of skill will be ELO, and that is only win/loss. you yourself might be a good player, but not good enough to consistently carry a team to victory. Doesn't mean you're a bad player.

[Kain]

Really bad poll...

Damage done is not a good measurement to determine if a player is an asset to the team.
It is a TEAM game, your team needs to win, it doesn't matter how much damage/kills an individual scores.


I would like to have smart players, if somebody can support another teammate so he can deal 1000+ damage, that is much better than 2 player dealing 350 damage...

[Novawrecker]

Very abstract and limited scope poll as total damage done does not = overall usefullness.

[Broceratops]

so the game where i had to do 1500+ damage in a raven and 6 of my teammates did less than 125 damage ... those guys were actually really good?

[Ghogiel]

Broceratops, on 14 February 2013 - 02:00 PM, said:

so the game where i had to do 1500+ damage in a raven and 6 of my teammates did less than 125 damage ... those guys were actually really good?

Scrubs. Making me look good since 3049.

[Grimlox]

Broceratops, on 14 February 2013 - 02:00 PM, said:

so the game where i had to do 1500+ damage in a raven and 6 of my teammates did less than 125 damage ... those guys were actually really good?

LOL apparently. You should learn from their mad skillz.

BTW nice score, most I ever got in my Raven was 1,067 dmg. I did miraculously get 8 kills that match though (only time I ever did that)

[Eric darkstar Marr]

Mystere, on 14 February 2013 - 01:23 PM, said:

If not for my TAG, you yellow LRM boats in the back will all be useless against those D-DC equipped Steiner scout lances.

Say that to my Stalker that has a TAG and MLs for back up, OHHH 2 cycles to the left eye kills an atlas you say?

[TVMA Doc]

Fungeh, on 14 February 2013 - 06:05 AM, said:

It's not all about damage, good snipers can get plenty of kills with very little damage

Not only that, a good scout can help the team by tag'ing targets, finding the enemy-even without doing ANY damage. That guy standing next to you with ECM and an AMS launcher and tons of ammo who can't hit the broad side of a barn may have assured that neither could the enemy's three missile boats.

[Ave Hax]

dammage is definately revelant to role if the last standing is the raven he migght
have 5 kills with 800 dmg stiner scout parties of atlases take a while
later

[Red squirrel]

Now that's one useful poll *cough* *cough*

I'd say a fast scout that gets you the resouce victory but 0 damage is a great asset.
A Brawler with 200 damage on the other hand feels a bit useless.
An LRM boat can easily do 1000 damage without killing a single enemy,
while a sniper perform get 2 head shots with 80 damage.

Edited by Red squirrel, 14 February 2013 - 02:54 PM.

[Vapor Trail]

Like many have said, damage doesn't encompass everything that being a credit to the team is.

Conquest game. I had 97 damage. After helping cap four points (which we held for quite a while) I wound up as the last alive in my Cicada 2B vs 6 enemy mechs. I spent the last three minutes of the game dodging assaults and heavies and being chased by at least one pretty quick Hunchback. If I had attempted to cause damage, I would have died and the game would have been lost.

As it was I survived, we won, they lost, and I wound up near the bottom of the list (second or third from the bottom IIRC).

Sure, my damage was dang low. My XP for the match was low. My total score was low.
Did this mean I wasn't a credit to my team. Nope. Entire reason we won rather than lost was I managed to duck three-quarters of their entire team while being actively chased.

Sure, I was pushing 130+ kph while the guy chasing me was lucky if he was pushing 90, but the sheer number of the enemy forced me to duck and dodge like a madman, and they almost had me at least three times. And the LRMs... (insert LRM flashback)...

So "Credit to the team" can be pretty subjective.

[Vincent Quatermain]

OK, so there's been five pages of people listing various exceptions to the obvious fact that more damage is better. A handful of wise voices (Grimlox, for example) have pointed out that while minimum damage will vary with the mech, there is a minimum level of performance that should be expected.

The best metric, it seems, would be damage dealt, per match DIVIDED BY tonnage of mech driven. This would yield a damage to weight ratio (DWR).

If this ratio, taken over several matches, is less than three, I don't care what you're driving -- you officially suck donkey balls.

If this ratio is five or more, you're doing good.

(Caveat: If you have played less than a hundred matches, I would expect your DWR to be low. You're forgiven. If you aren't new to MWO, however, a DWR less than 3.0 is terrible.)

(Caveat #2: Your DWR for ONE match might be low from time-to-time. That is why a fair DWR would be a running average of, say, your last 50 matches. If your DWR is still less than 3.0, taking this into account, you suck.)

[Fyrerock]

Vapor Trail, on 14 February 2013 - 03:29 PM, said:

Like many have said, damage doesn't encompass everything that being a credit to the team is.

Conquest game. I had 97 damage. After helping cap four points (which we held for quite a while) I wound up as the last alive in my Cicada 2B vs 6 enemy mechs. I spent the last three minutes of the game dodging assaults and heavies and being chased by at least one pretty quick Hunchback. If I had attempted to cause damage, I would have died and the game would have been lost.

As it was I survived, we won, they lost, and I wound up near the bottom of the list (second or third from the bottom IIRC).

Sure, my damage was dang low. My XP for the match was low. My total score was low.
Did this mean I wasn't a credit to my team. Nope. Entire reason we won rather than lost was I managed to duck three-quarters of their entire team while being actively chased.

Sure, I was pushing 130+ kph while the guy chasing me was lucky if he was pushing 90, but the sheer number of the enemy forced me to duck and dodge like a madman, and they almost had me at least three times. And the LRMs... (insert LRM flashback)...

So "Credit to the team" can be pretty subjective.

Sure this happens once in a while, but more often either the other team will kill that light or just get the caps and let you run around. The best way to win is for the team to stick together, at least in the pug game. But having the lights and some mediums run off and do there own thing, means the team will loose the majority of the time.

One game means nothing, but if anyone is doing less then 150 damage for the majority of the games they are playing, then they need to change the way they are playing, and the heavier of a mech they play the more damage they should be doing before death.

[Mazzyplz]

-as an assault if you do 200 you're screwed, you need to do 300 to break even expected to go at least 400 if not 600
(obvious exception when you make precise shots / headshots - but you want to disarm the weapons half of the time, really)
ballpark, you can def go higher.

-in heavies 250-290 to break even, expected to go 400-490
except for precise shooting matches, assuming component shots, disarm
ballpark, you can go higher to the mid 500s

-in meds and lights 250-280 and above you did your team good. nobody could ask more than 350 from you
ballpark some can go higher but that's mostly a fluke (your team was amazingly bad) - though some hunchbacks do break 350 consistently


if you are a noob at this game - or in the off chance you pilot a spider then you can be happy with doing 180 dmg and above

90 and less in whatever mech means it would have been pretty much the same if you disconnected,
unless you're one of those info gatherers/cap warriors
but if you're using lasers or ppc and can't break 90, i suggest you try the long range missile and the streak srm




if you average out all the classes i listed (bundle med and light for convenience):

300 + 280 + 250 / 3 = 276.6666666666667 DMG

edit: as in 277 dmg is what you need to do mathematically to match any given opponent on the other team disregarding weight class - of course these numbers don't often reflect the reality of a match, but if we make some assumptions then mathematically this is the answer

Edited by Mazzyplz, 14 February 2013 - 05:43 PM.

[Zypher]

Damage is and always will be a partial statistic on determining one’s ability to be useful. It has it place, but when determining ones skills there are all sorts of variables that must also be considered, the thread is pointless other than just throwing a bunch of random numbers in people’s faces.

If you are going to judge someone’s usefulness, at least use the whole equation.

The only way to know if someone sucks is to see them play multiple matches, if you cannot stand playing with or against useless players then join a premade. If that's not for you quit or help make the game better with "useful" metrics instead of half a story.

Edited by Zypher, 14 February 2013 - 05:04 PM.