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F2P Players Need A Way To Acquire 'mech Bays Without Buying Mc.


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#141 Volume

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 05:53 PM

View PostZaptruder, on 14 February 2013 - 04:46 PM, said:


A good rational analysis, ignored because people can't be bothered reading a few words in succession, and would rather post: Get a jerb!

It's another vector for the F2P to grind, and another vector for them to get hooked into the game enough fro them to pull out their wallets for the first time; going from free to play, to paying customer. The difference is significant; one has trust issues about online payment and the game and the company. The other has experienced the payment first hand and knows what to expect.


Like I said at the bottom of the original post: I don't want to be losing customers over something this silly. While things have improved a lot, the new player and F2P experience still pales in comparison to other games on the market. Most people will play a game that actually respects the time they put into it, considering they have many other superior options available.

I'm deeply and sincerely concerned about the fact that a significant number of this thread's posts surmount to "get a job" and "pay the $7" because it means that the community doesn't understand various things.

1: People can make a much more satisfying purchase these days than an empty space to hold their virtual 'Mech.
2: People have other F2P games where spending ~$5 gives you the equivalent of a 'Mech. And slots are a non-issue.
3: Certain currencies in countries other than US/EU do not convert well to MC, and $1.75 is really more like ~$10. PGI has no separate pricing options available for those countries. For example: Poland.

I want everyone to understand that it's not about me. I don't have a problem with slots. I was here before the Founder's package was available, and it was pretty much a day one purchase for me because I love MW and want to see this succeed. I want this game to see the audience it deserves to see, bring in the people it needs to become a huge success, and be the catalyst that opens up more commercial ventures into this IP (e.g. a single-player game maybe one day, I'd even fund it on kickstarter).

For the health of the game, it's better to get $1.50 from 75,000 players than $5 from 10,000. You want that playerbase, you want that word of mouth spread, you want to be the next big thing that the hardcore people tell their friends to play, and that their friends keep playing because it's fun and they're not held down.

I'm afraid that many people don't see the big picture, or that they believe that this game has solid-enough player retention that the F2P experience doesn't need to change in this regard. I'm not saying that the game will devolve into a "founder's club" and all the F2P players will leave, but simply that an F2P player is a valuable commodity and should be treated as such.

I've played several F2P games, and seen many come and go, and, as a general rule of thumb, I believe that you want to make a microtransaction system that is fair for everybody. Cosmetic changes available for cash (colors, skins, and the like), have a pay-for-convenience system (XP boosts, Credit boosts), weapon unlock with $, etc. Basically, you can skip some of the "grind" if you pay. I'm not saying the game needs to have every single item 100% available to the F2P player, but as soon as someone notices that something isn't available, they are forced to make that decision "do I pay for it or do I play without it" - and people should be coaxed into their first purchase, a "basket full of carrots" as the devs said, not a "carrot on a stick" or "carrot behind a locked door that says $1.75 on it" to continue the metaphor.

Also, a subtle point from my previous post: As I mentioned, 50/56 chassis variants are available to the F2P player. Only 6 aren't. But an F2P player can only hold 4 'Mechs. Four. 4/50 would be ~8%, 4/56 would be ~7.1%. Yes, with enough time, and enough C-Bills, you could rotate 'mechs in and out of a slot, but for the players who want to keep their work, keep their progression, (especially if they painted a 'Mech or have emotional attachment to it) there is no solution except paying.

And when the devs plan to have achievements, including some that relate to collecting 'mechs, it puts bay-less players at a bit of a disadvantage. Granted, Achievements aren't too important, but again, perceived P2W/P2Pro is just as bad for a game's growth as actual P2W/P2Pro.

At the very least, a 'mech purchased with MC should come with its own 'Mech bay. Especially Hero 'Mechs. As it stands now, it's like having a $1.75 tax added on to each purchase because a bay slot is required. Which is a very high percentage of the purchase if you're going for a smaller 'mech (I believe the cheapest Commando is 680MC, which then requires a 300MC 'mech bay, more than 1/3rd the price of the actual 'mech.

This presents a high barrier of entry and discourages potential paying customers.

Anyway, my point is that when someone hits this wall, what are they going to do? Sell and buy another 'Mech? Pay the $7? Or, a scenario that I find to be more likely, get the feeling that the game is designed to hold them back, and stop playing as often, because they don't want to be forced to make the decision.

Basically, you want to show the player things to convince them to make the decision themselves to purchase something, not stop them after a certain amount of in-game hours and say "Okay, what did you think so far? You have to pay to get past here."

It can be a really hard grind, and then people might give up on it and just spend the money, but you need to let them come to the conclusion themselves rather than force them to make the decision at an arbitrary point. Get them to pay, but don't stop them and say "You must pay now, or throw away your progress to get some side-grades." People can't progress or advance their account past 4 slots.

I truly just want what's best for the game. I'm not saying give everything away. I'm not saying start players with 50 slots, or that slots need to go, I'm saying at least reconsider the pricing, reconsider the starting number, reconsider the "$$$-only" approach to this. Like I said, I'm not asking for hand-outs. It's just that I've seen a lot of great F2P games come and go because of a poor pricing model, and I don't want MWO to go to the wayside or have a smaller player-base because of something as seemingly-insignificant as a slot to hold a 'mech.

I wasn't trying to offend anyone, and am sorry if I came off as demanding.

#142 CeeKay Boques

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 05:55 PM

Free to play players need to find $1.75 among their $700 computers and their $25 a month internets. If you can afford a Hero Mech, you can afford a mech bay, and if you can't afford either, cool! You still get to play on the computer you got before the economic crash. I'm down with a bay decrease in price, but this little $1.75 IS a good point of "ok, you want to have FIVE mechs? Pay for some of the design."

Edited by Technoviking, 14 February 2013 - 05:59 PM.


#143 Mr Mantis

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 06:00 PM

I would be fine with being able to buy mech bays with cbills or through faction loyalty, as long as you only started with one and could only get back to the original number we have now.

#144 Mycrus

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 06:09 PM

View PostSixStringSamurai, on 14 February 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:


Can you buy mech bays with food stamps? Or SNAP or what ever F2P eaters of the world are calling it these days...


Im pretty sure somebody on foodstamps won't have time to whine on the forums

#145 Cferre

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 06:14 PM

View PostVolume, on 14 February 2013 - 01:00 PM, said:

I understand that PGI needs to make money. I realize that someone who has acquired four of their own well-equipped and upgraded battlemechs has probably gotten many hours of enjoyment out of MWO, and maybe therefore "should" pay for the entertainment.

However, I find it unfair that players can hit a F2P wall and be unable to progress without heavy compromise.

I feel that there needs to be a way to let F2P players explore all the elements of the game without forcing them to essentially backtrack in terms of Battlemechs.

I don't think a player should need to sell the one he has been using to try a new 'Mech. It's not that they can't make a choice, it's that that choice simply shouldn't have to be made, because it's not a sensible choice to impose on players.

Like I said, I don't expect PGI to give everything away for free to players. I would think that allowing slots to be purchased with C-Bills could be a mistake, but perhaps if a player is capable of getting a few extra slots from pilot rank ups or GXP, he would have a fair degree of wiggle room.

What I find hardest here is that the number of available 'Mechs to play has more than doubled, but F2P slots remain locked at 4. It takes three of the same 'Mech to even get a Chassis to Elite/Master, and having three variants of the same 'Mech and one other seems like a strong limit, leaving the player having only two different 'Mechs to play (3 variants of the same one, one variant of another) unless you count the abhorrent trial 'Mech loadouts with no pilot skills (Which are very, very gameplay-affecting).

Don't push away the players who want to play your game - empower them to earn the items they want, even if they have to grind for them. Otherwise they may not play at all. I think pushing away free players is a scary idea and obviously not what we want to do. It's a good thing that you keep XP even if you sell a chassis, but at the same time, it is a hefty c-bill loss if you decide you want to pick up that chassis again - one that is unfair to a player without a founder's bonus and premium account.

I just don't want to be losing players over this.



.......................... Skip McDonald's for one time and you have enough MC to get some proper mechbays.

Wtf dude. :blink:

#146 Ghogiel

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 06:27 PM

View PostCferre, on 14 February 2013 - 06:14 PM, said:



.......................... Skip McDonald's for one time and you have enough MC to get some proper mechbays.

Wtf dude. ;)

>doesn't eat for a day
>turns some tricks for a few dollars
>buys mechbays in MWO

#147 SixstringSamurai

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 06:31 PM

Here's a simple fix: ask your mommy or daddy if you can use their credit card for $7 worth of MC. Seriously there's no way this person is an adult and doesn't have $7 to spend on MC.

#148 Grrzoot

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 06:38 PM

View PostBren McGuire, on 14 February 2013 - 05:26 PM, said:


Ancient uncool meme. Apologies, my info is either old or incorrect, it doesn't mean it shouldn't be right but that's a topic for another thread. What is evident is that people are definitely trying to quash free mech bays to protect their investment. I sympathise but the current model only goes one way. FTP leave, Then the harcdore devour eachother until there's not enough players left to sustain the game. It's the wrong direction for a FTP game.




I didn't mean to come across rude, just wanted to counterdict your post before people started screaming about mc refunds.

It's not about my investment really, i've blown well over 300 on a game when i stood behind the dev studio and had that game destroyed, not by a f2p model or player base but by a company EA SWTOR, to be precise. I will admit that i am not afraid to spend money on a game, but that doesn't color my opinion at all.

The way i look at it is this, the amount of enjoyment you get for x dollar. In my opinion MMO's have been top of the board for this if you have the time, 15 dollar a month sub, up to hundreds of hours of entertainment per month if you have the time. Coming from many games that have a subscription based model, then coming to this, my first real ftp game (i always thought of f2p as blatant cash grabs for more powerfull items etc..nother thread) i found that the amount of enjoyment that you can get from this game, for free, far far exceeds its initial cost. I.E. i can play big giant stompy robots and build up to four mechs for fun, and never pay a cent. Just a couple of years ago a title like this, in beta or otherwise, would have been at least 50 bucks to pony up just to find that it sucks.

My opinion is that, if you have gotten to the point where you have played a game, and enjoyed it enough to own 4 kited out mechs, which by the way is a decent amount of hours of playtime including cadet bonus. That you should realize you enjoy the game and want more. Buying mechbays is a great, and cheap comparatively, way to show that you appreciate the game and want it to continue. If you want to make other accounts, sell and rebuy mechs because you have the time and inclination, more power to you, doesn't bother me because you are giving the playerbase your time, but i think to give any more of the game away for free, to not try to convert those people at a low price point, will ultimately lead to not enough cash for development. The plug may get pulled.

One last thought, as a comparison, when swtor went f2p. F2P players only get 2 action bars, at lvl 50 you need at least 3, maybe 4 depending on your class in order to mount your abilities and that costs you a one time $15 month sub to get 4 bars, a blatant ptw tactic. Here you get everything in the game with......limited character/mech slots. And for half that price i can double the amount of chrac.....mechs that i have. That's good structure, and while there is nothing wrong in asking for it, i don't think it would be a smart move.

Edited by Grrzoot, 14 February 2013 - 06:40 PM.


#149 Vapor Trail

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 06:47 PM

View PostGrrzoot, on 14 February 2013 - 06:38 PM, said:

that costs you a one time $15 month sub to get 4 bars,


Um... what's this "one time $15 month sub" you mention?

If you mean a $15 a month subscription... by definition a monthly subscription is not "one-time."

Just OCDing here.

#150 Zaptruder

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 06:51 PM

This thread is a sad reflection of the maturity level of this community as a whole. Would rather address a strawman that think about the actual argument.

I came into this thread thinking, man, mechbays are cheap.

But in fact, yes, there is a point to making mechbays available for purchase with cbills, and it doesn't have to be a straight up MC to cbill conversion; it's better that it's not in fact.

More accomodating F2P features means more players (better player retention, more word of mouth), means more time spent on the game, means more money for the developers, means more features for us the paying customers.

It's not that convoluted; but it does require the ability to draw more than a single causal arrow in your mind. You might actually have to comprehend multiple factors influencing an end result.

#151 SlXSlXSlX

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 06:52 PM

Cant i just make 10 accounts. Thats 40 mech bay slots right there.

;)

#152 Zaptruder

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 06:54 PM

View PostSlXSlXSlX, on 14 February 2013 - 06:52 PM, said:

Cant i just make 10 accounts. Thats 40 mech bay slots right there.

;)


You can in fact do this. Which is why you should be able to buy mechbays with cbills. The only things that don't transfer in that regard is the pilot skills. Not a big deal; their benefits are marginal.

#153 FupDup

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 06:56 PM

View PostZaptruder, on 14 February 2013 - 06:51 PM, said:

But in fact, yes, there is a point to making mechbays available for purchase with cbills, and it doesn't have to be a straight up MC to cbill conversion; it's better that it's not in fact.

I'd personally think that a "free" method of acquiring bays should be GXP instead of CBills, because it's harder to grind out and doesn't have much use beyond modules anyways (nobody uses GXP for unlocking pilot trees, at least not most sane people).

Edited by FupDup, 14 February 2013 - 06:57 PM.


#154 Alphawolf

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 06:59 PM

View PostSable Dove, on 14 February 2013 - 03:52 PM, said:

I actually don't agree, and I'm currently progression-locked by the mechbay limit. I mean, mechbays are pretty cheap, compared to many other things; including things that aren't the horrendously overpriced paints in MWO.

However, I'm holding off on buying mechbays until I see some real progress made on the ECM/Missile front, and maybe some other signs that show that they are at least as aware of issues with their own game as fans are.

When I see some real progress being made, I'll be more than happy to buy a few mech bays.

What I would like to see though, is the ability to unlock the Elite tier of mech upgrades with only two mechs through Basic; this way, it's much less of a hassle/cbill-sink to get a mech up to snuff, because let's face it; elite tier are not insignificant upgrades. Almost necessary to be competitive. Master tier is more for bragging rights than anything right now.

That, and a reduction in the absurd paint costs. I may actually buy some patterns if I'm not being gouged over them.

The only way you are progression locked without buying more mech bays with MC is you filled each of your free mech slots with hero mechs. I do not know since I stopped reading you greedy post after you wrote you were progression locked. Other wise if those mechs are not hero mechs then you will have to sell them to elite some other mechs. Pay some money for pete sake. These gimme more free stuff posts is worst than those AT&T comercials with those annoying kids.

Edited by Alphawolf, 14 February 2013 - 07:23 PM.


#155 SlXSlXSlX

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 07:05 PM

Before it dawned on me, that I could make more accouts and get more free bay slots, I used to buy all 3 elite it, then sell all 3 and do this 4x then buy back my fav one, thus 4 diff mechs all mastered. Now I just make more accounts and ech is for 2 mech classes, with 2 mastered mechs of each type. All, for FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

#156 Pihb

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 07:10 PM

View PostSable Dove, on 14 February 2013 - 03:52 PM, said:

I actually don't agree, and I'm currently progression-locked by the mechbay limit. I mean, mechbays are pretty cheap, compared to many other things; including things that aren't the horrendously overpriced paints in MWO.

However, I'm holding off on buying mechbays until I see some real progress made on the ECM/Missile front, and maybe some other signs that show that they are at least as aware of issues with their own game as fans are.

When I see some real progress being made, I'll be more than happy to buy a few mech bays.

What I would like to see though, is the ability to unlock the Elite tier of mech upgrades with only two mechs through Basic; this way, it's much less of a hassle/cbill-sink to get a mech up to snuff, because let's face it; elite tier are not insignificant upgrades. Almost necessary to be competitive. Master tier is more for bragging rights than anything right now.

That, and a reduction in the absurd paint costs. I may actually buy some patterns if I'm not being gouged over them.


Then don't buy stuff. If you want your hobby to stand up to your expectations of fun, invest in it. PGI does not need your money. I see at least a hero mech in every match i play. I own extra mech bays and i know of many people who own an absurd number of mechs. I don't think they are worried about your cheap ***.

#157 Tor6

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 07:12 PM

If someone is playing the game so much that they're buying new mechs all the time without spending MC on them, they're clearly getting hours and hours of entertainment out of the game and I don't think it's unreasonable to expect them to drop a few bucks on some more mech bays. Seriously, mech bays are pretty cheap. A reasonable price imo.

If you rolled the cost of the mech bays into any mech you bought with MC it might sweeten the deal on people buying them via real dollars though. ie you get a 'free' mech bay with any mech bought with MC. (dunno if this is how it works now).

Edited by Tor6, 14 February 2013 - 07:13 PM.


#158 p4r4g0n

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 07:13 PM

Mechbays are amongst the cheapest if not the cheapest things you can buy that give a real benefit to game play. Not really sure this should be available for C-Bills.

Having played a number of other F2P, I've usually found it unnecessary to spend real money on them as the stuff that I consider priced appropriately for micro transactions are totally useless / fluff. Mechbays are the only things in MWO I consider cheap enough to qualify as micro and useful enough to actually pay for. IMO PGI hit it exactly right with this.

However, I do think a gifting option for items / mechbays (not MC trading / sale though) should be made available.

Edit: Oh yeah, Hero mechs not coming with their own mechbays is kinda silly, so on this point I definitely agree.

Edited by p4r4g0n, 14 February 2013 - 07:37 PM.


#159 SlXSlXSlX

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 07:18 PM

You can get every ounce of this game, absent taht sexy Illya, for free. Why bother spending money on it, when I can buy other new titles, and still play this for free? Illya isnt all that, especially when compared to picking up a completely new title with a campaign, story, etc etc. I like the system, but I do use ghetto pc gamer camo.

#160 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 07:18 PM

Include a Mechbay with a Hero Mech. We are paying a very pretty penny for one, the least they can do is not put it in a regular Bay.



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