112 replies to this topic

[Stormwolf]

Vassago Rain, on 16 February 2013 - 01:44 PM, said:

Lore isn't PvP combat.
Also in lore, you can kill 8 wasps with a single atlas.

They are refering to the WSP-1A, those things only carry 1 medium laser and have a total of 48 armor points. I'd be very disappointed in the AS7-D pilot who can't deal with that.

Edited by Stormwolf, 16 February 2013 - 03:18 PM.

[Eddrick]

I wouldn't say they are needed. Specialists work best when grouped with others that can complement that specialty.

People like to specialize and like specialist.

On thier own. A specialist is both strong and very vulnerable. An "All-rounder" works well alone and in the hands of a skilled pilot. This is when they realy shine. A specialist doesn't requier you to be good at everything. But, an "All-rounder" does.

Edited by Eddrick, 16 February 2013 - 03:30 PM.

[Zordicron]

Lukoi, on 16 February 2013 - 03:05 PM, said:

So my 5 LL Phract is good even though it's a min/max build as it's good at most ranges right? Thanks, figured as much

Actually no, in lore it would do very well in areas like deep water, zero atmosphere moons, sub-arctic frozen worlds, etc. Also in lore you would be a useless pile of scrap in places like volcanic worlds, toxic high temp atmosphere planets, dessert areas, etc.

So, your build could be seen as lore friendly, if you were garrisoned on some moon somewhere. Otherwise, probably not so much.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Lukoi, on 16 February 2013 - 03:17 PM, said:

snip

It was indeed narrow for KISS.

I was also just coming off my experience. In the rifle squads in the 155th, Squads 1-3 have 12 men: 2 have SAWs, 2 have M203s, the rest have M4s. Squad 4 has 3 M240s and the M14, with the rest also carrying M4s.

But, unit SOP's are different. And SOP's for differing operations are different as well as you appear well versed in.

Edited by JohanssenJr, 16 February 2013 - 09:36 PM.

[Scrawny Cowboy]

One thing I have noticed that is mandatory for a mech with an all-purpose loadout; it has to have speed. If you can't pick your fights or play those fights as you want, you're going to have deaths where you could not respond effectively.

[Vassago Rain]

Eddrick, on 16 February 2013 - 03:30 PM, said:

I wouldn't say they are needed. Specialists work best when grouped with others that can complement that specialty.

People like to specialize and like specialist.

On thier own. A specialist is both strong and very vulnerable. An "All-rounder" works well alone and in the hands of a skilled pilot. This is when they realy shine. A specialist doesn't requier you to be good at everything. But, an "All-rounder" does.

No, an all rounder doesn't work in PVP games, because you know you're gonna go in and PVP.

[Targetloc]

Varied mech loadouts would be more useful if terrain was somewhat randomly generated, or there was some kind of campaign mode where you had to pick one mech to drop on planet and stick with it for multiple missions.

[MacKoga]

Why don't the lore-builds make sense here?

Because of math.


If you have a lore-based build, you probably have a mix of weapons that have totally different firing needs. If you're stuck aiming with a mouse cursor, instead a fancy neurohelmet, you can't correctly aim a laser and lead with an autocannon at a straifing target. To fire those 2 different weapon systems, you will need to line up your shot twice.

Meanwhile, a focused MWO built mech will likely emphasis fewer separate aiming systems, so in the above example, it would be equivalent to firing 2 systems while only needing to spend the time to line up shots once. Those seconds saved make a difference.


Even weapons within a weapon class, say lasers to lasers, focused design makes a difference. Say you spend 20 seconds fighting an opponent. If you have different classes of lasers, their firing will get out of sync, meaning you will need to keep your targeting reticule over your enemy for a greater proportion of those 20 seconds for the same amount of shooting as you'd get from a single system. Besides being harder to do, and raising the probability of less of your laser damage being correctly delivered, you will have fewer seconds in which you don't have lasers that need to shoot. Those non-shooting seconds are important for tactically repositioning yourself, for either making your shooting time more accurate, or for defensive reasons.


There are other ways in which the opportunity cost of having a mixed load comes into play. Really, the lore-style builds won't be much in vogue until there's a compelling advantage to having a mixed mech. PvE, long campaign fights, or other significantly different game types might do it, but I don't expect anything like that soon.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Eldagore, on 16 February 2013 - 05:54 PM, said:

Actually no, in lore it would do very well in areas like deep water, zero atmosphere moons, sub-arctic frozen worlds, etc. Also in lore you would be a useless pile of scrap in places like volcanic worlds, toxic high temp atmosphere planets, dessert areas, etc.

So, your build could be seen as lore friendly, if you were garrisoned on some moon somewhere. Otherwise, probably not so much.

Or anywhere a competent pilot can manage heat. It does fineon caustic forexample...you just cannot be greedy andalpha all of the time. Lore problem solved.

[Lukoi Banacek]

JohanssenJr, on 16 February 2013 - 09:33 PM, said:

It was indeed narrow for KISS.

I was also just coming off my experience. In the rifle squads in the 155th, Squads 1-3 have 12 men: 2 have SAWs, 2 have M203s, the rest have M4s. Squad 4 has 3 M240s and the M14, with the rest also carrying M4s.

But, unit SOP's are different. And SOP's for differing operations are different as well as you appear well versed in.

Thanks...been doing it about twenty years -- regardless, did my point about comparing a platoon of mixed capabilities not mesh well with the lance mix concept?

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Lukoi, on 16 February 2013 - 10:25 PM, said:

Thanks...been doing it about twenty years -- regardless, did my point about comparing a platoon of mixed capabilities not mesh well with the lance mix concept?

It actually does. If you think about it, a single mech is equivalent to a modern Bradley or Abrams platoon in firepower.