78 replies to this topic

[CarnifexMaximus]

I just started using TS3 about a month ago. I got a mic running last week. I will never look back. It for sure helps to drop with people who are mic'd up. However, I would hate to see compulsory VoIP integrated into the game via C3. Sometimes 4 players in one of the dropships can get very chatty. Having 8 randoms (soon to be 12) mic'd up on the same channel might not be that cool.

My housemate runs exclusively on Battlefield 3 mic required servers on xbox. As far as I know he has to listen to all 24 players at once and the Xbox mic I gave him is always on (no push to talk). If this is so for mwo (having to listen to all members of ones team at once) I think I would like to go back to my ignorant lone-wolf paranoid always looking over my shoulder days.

Edited by CarnifexMaximus, 16 February 2013 - 10:29 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

Sometimes 4 players in one of the dropships can get very chatty. Having 8 randoms (soon to be 12) mic'd up on the same channel might not be that cool.

Yeah but statistically half the people either won't have mics or won't use their mic. I don't think it would be that bad. The important thing is that they can hear the people that do have mics.

[CarnifexMaximus]

Khobai, on 16 February 2013 - 10:37 PM, said:

Yeah but statistically half the people either won't have mics or won't use their mic. I don't think it would be that bad. The important thing is that they can hear the people that do have mics.

Totally, I see your point. When I was using TS with friends before I had a mic myself I already noticed a huge difference in tactical gameplay. I can totally see how this would work with 4-5 savy players calling targets and grid locations and other silent folks listening and benefiting from the coordination.

Also, I guess that "enable c3" checkbox can always be unchecked and good 'ol TS3 can still be used if you still want it that way..

[Mavairo]

If you still blow at the game you're still going to blow.

The only difference is your team mates presently probably know ahead of time since you can tell them in Team speak. *and yes I said Team Speak. Vent is dead. And it needs to stay that way *

Comms are great, once you understand the basic ebb and flow of the game and know what needs to be said vs what doesn't. This is a truism that applies to all online gaming, not just mwo.

Edited by Mavairo, 16 February 2013 - 10:53 PM.

[SmilingElf]

Major points have been put in bold for your convenience...

I'm recalling another game a couple of year ago from Sony with integrated VOIP. The technical execution was solid, though it had some balance issues, and got a couple of rebuilds. However, it had full integrated voice communications, and after the first couple of months, they were utterly useless. The system ran into a couple of serious issues, unfortunately, and, as a result, most players disabled the in-game comms, and either used their own 3rd party application if they were organized, or did without.

The two major divisions that these issues fell into were:

1) Internet Problem Archetype

Simply put, many people on the internet whether intentionally or not, and for a variety of reasons, behave in fashions which can become unpleasant or disruptive under the best circumstances, and frequently can turn hostile or worse. In the game referenced earlier, examples ranged from the benign, but distracting, stoned/drunk/etc Officer-In-Charge, to the one (or occasionally more) teammates blaring some flavor of "music" (over sort sort of speaker, in some vague proximity to the mic, but ALWAYS with plenty of static and feedback) with the entire team, for our listening pleasure, to the individual who will simply NOT SHUT UP (sometimes about an actual topic, sometimes not,) all the way to the other end of the scale with the individual who was in some combination convinced of his superiority to the team, and told them so, and / or spewed a stream of verbal filth for their own reasons.

Some helpful reading, on the topic:

http://en.wikipedia....hibition_effect
http://en.wikipedia....hibition_effect

2) Simple, (but Unavoidable) Real World Communications Issues

There are certain basic requirements for good communication, not the least of which is that the people involved a) speak the same language, and have the technology (and other resources) required to take advantage of them. With open, integrated, automatic voice chat, there is no control over what language your teammates will speak, what quality their sound gear is, or how well it is configured, or what other Real World factors(such as background noise) will affect it.

In closing, as much as I would like to hang my hopes that universal, integrated VOIP will close the gap between PUG players, and the more serious/dedicated player base, I know better. Even if it does solve one set of issues, and there is no guarantee that it will, it will simply, and unavoidably, create a different, and possibly worse, set.

TLDR: Integrated automatic VOIP has been attempted in the past, and fails for reasons that have little to do with the provider, and much to do with the end user population.

[Kaziganthi]

SkkyHigh, on 16 February 2013 - 09:05 PM, said:

C3 does work and will be integrated in the game when it's ready.

If it works, why isn;t it in game already??? so in other words..it isn't working.

Vrekgar, on 16 February 2013 - 09:28 PM, said:

No. This game does not need universal integrated voice chat. I will turn the function off as soon as they activate the C3 system.

Why? Because I do not want to listen to 11 people who can scream and yell and play ****** music and be annoying kittenholes just because they have Voice coms.

You want to have coms? We already have a DERTH of options. All of them are better because they take the responsibility of good behavior and tie it into the server admins job.

Thats what a mute option would be good for.

edit : and who do you report player XX to for abuse, harrasment, child grooming for on a 3rd party client run by an administrator who is hardly there?

Edited by Kaziganthi, 16 February 2013 - 11:05 PM.

[sycocys]

Maybe some of my crew will catch on comment on this. But I've been playing with a team in raidcall for a little over 2 months now - refused to play with a voice system just to see how well I could do for months -

The thing is I don't have a mic and don't do anything but type to relay messages, and 90% of what my team talks about is their kids, work, loadouts, school and other general life stuff. I type back, pre-and post game makes this easier and now I only tab over to chat while waiting between matches.

End of the day we are essentially a group of pugs that enjoys each others company and THIS is what has actually made the game for me. It's essentially become battletech I can play with people that live no where near me, have a good time and some laughs every night. While I'd not mind them implementing voice into the game, their current method of running the game instances would kill the voice between matches which is where we have an equal amount of fun so I'd stick with a 3rd party system regardless myself.

[Orgasmo]

Even when they implement in-game voice chat, I think i'll stick to TS3. Too many kids with their annoying high-pitched voices talking smack.

[Mike Townsend]

Tickdoff Tank, on 16 February 2013 - 09:28 PM, said:

I see a not insignificant number of people that refuse to use 3rd party voice chat for a variety of reasons. Why would those people use the in-game voice chat if they will not use one that is already available?

I *do* want in-game voice chat, I think it is needed and will be a great benefit to the game, but I do not think it will be the panacea that you seem to be suggesting that it will be.

Because you can't use out of game voice chat most of the time? When I drop with my brother, we're always on Skype. The other six people we drop with won't be on Skype because we have no idea who they are before we drop and they change every round. If we switch to TeamSpeak, the situation does not improve. We aren't looking for a private chat room and would be happy to be on chat with everyone else. Hell, sometimes we drop and it turns out there's another two, three, or four man on our side, all on voice. But it isn't the same voice we're on because it isn't integrated into the game.

[Mike Townsend]

CarnifexMaximus, on 16 February 2013 - 10:26 PM, said:

Sometimes 4 players in one of the dropships can get very chatty. Having 8 randoms (soon to be 12) mic'd up on the same channel might not be that cool.

Agreed. What would be nice is if there was a bit more organization during pre-game. You might be on a random group drop, but maybe there's a brief period of time for teams to self-select into lances. Those lances then nominate a commander. The default voice chat is in-lance, but commanders get a push to talk that lets them communicate with everyone on the team. It'd ensure that teamwide chat was all gameplay but still allow a four man to be grouped into a lance and have free chat.

[Vrekgar]

Kaziganthi, on 16 February 2013 - 11:04 PM, said:

If it works, why isn;t it in game already??? so in other words..it isn't working.




Thats what a mute option would be good for.

edit : and who do you report player XX to for abuse, harrasment, child grooming for on a 3rd party client run by an administrator who is hardly there?

Yes because having to outright mute my team at the start of every match is inteligent design and expands gameplay. *SARCASM*

If your running on Voice coms and there is no ADMIN you need to get a better group. Someone needs to step up and keep it in line.

Seriously We dont need integrated voice coms when the game already has netcode issues. We dont need them even if the netcode is perfect. We already have robust and well supported 3rd party voice coms.

[ConnorSinclair]

Orgasmo, on 16 February 2013 - 11:12 PM, said:

Even when they implement in-game voice chat, I think i'll stick to TS3. Too many kids with their annoying high-pitched voices talking smack.

but you'd be right at home orgasmo.

[dario03]

Tickdoff Tank, on 16 February 2013 - 09:28 PM, said:

I see a not insignificant number of people that refuse to use 3rd party voice chat for a variety of reasons. Why would those people use the in-game voice chat if they will not use one that is already available?

I *do* want in-game voice chat, I think it is needed and will be a great benefit to the game, but I do not think it will be the panacea that you seem to be suggesting that it will be.

Various reasons. Besides integrated being far easier it could also allow you to have voice comms in pure pug games. That would be helpful for people that don't want to wait on others or have others have to wait on them. For example I sometimes hit launch over and over as soon as a game ends but other times I'll wait 10-30 minutes in between matches and I don't want to go find a group every time on ts3.

[Texas Merc]

Void2258, on 16 February 2013 - 08:33 PM, said:

You can ALWAYS tell when even 2 people are on voice chat. Because they coordinate. The game is PATENTLY unfair in how much advantage it gives to people who are using voice chat. Basically if you have voice chat and the other team doesn't you WILL win, often without even a single loss. The same equation occurs if one side has more people on chat than the other.

There is no way to control for outside voice services like Teamspeak, skype, etc. The only way to make the game fair is to have universal, integrated voice chat. You can't take your hands off the controls of your mech to type in the middle of battle without committing almost certain suicide, so it's voice chat or run around randomly and get picked off.

Go ahead and survey players with high and low win rates, and you will see the pattern: Those who play with groups on VOIP have high rates of success, and those who play with pugs with no VOIP have high loss rates. It barely matters how good or bad you are at the game, this external factor is the single biggest determinant of how well you actually perform. For a single elimination team match, communication is the key, and without voice coms, this game doesn't allow that.

I also note that whenever we see ANYTHING official from the devs, they ALWAYS ARE ON VOIP. 100% of the time. Because they KNOW that the game cannot be played without it. I would love to see them do a live stream in separate rooms without any communication except text chat. But they won't because then they would get their ***** kicked the first time the enemy was on Skype, and have to admit there is a problem.

I am sorry I gave this company my founders money.

ok u gave founders money AND you want to chat?

ok Teamspeak is free

ok

hi

[Sagamore]

Every other game worth its salt has built in voice chat. Even DC Universe Online has voice chat within your party. I just don't get what is taking so long.

[Ryvucz]

Some say I need to play drunk to impair my skillful abilities to make the game fair.

Also, I would think def and mute people have something to say about your insensitive post.

[Merky Merc]

In game voip in other games exists, it does not mean anyone uses it. If they don't want to download a 3rd party app and get a mike, then they probably won't do that for the sudden inclusion of in game chat.

And in game voips tend to be really freaking laggy, I can't think of any that were super awesome with the possible exception of VOIP on xbox live, but that is a wicked place.

[Mystere]

Voice comms? You mundanes are so behind.

[Wizard LoPan]

TS3 is free and easy to install. There are public "unofficial" MWO servers for NA and Europe, addresses easily found here on the forums, where you can easily find a group to drop with...and if you find them filled with immature trolls, drop gang and channel and join another. Or better yet, find a House or Merc Unit that suits your personality and maturity level, and join up get on their comms and drop with them. It isn't that difficult. How much more do things need to be handed to people? IMO, someone too lazy to do the above is someone too lazy to put the effort into getting decent at this game and will just be moving on to the next flashy distraction soon anyways.

[Fabe]

The problem with using a 3rd party voice chat is that you need to join the server,search though the channels until you find a group that you want to join and is willing to take you then add the leader of that group to your in game 'friends' list. And you have to do that for every game unless you join a guild,too much hassle for a game so depended on team work.

We need a in game voice chat. Yes it does need to be optional and it does need a mute function and maybe press to talk as well. And abusing the voice chat by using it like your own personal radio station or other forms of jerkyness should be against the terms of service and subject to baning or other dispensary actions.