54 replies to this topic

[Kashaar]

Let's talk about business for a change, shall we?

You know how the general consensus seems to be that MC prices for Mechs are way too high? For pure value, I would agree. 6000 MC, the equivalent of about 30$ for a single mech in a game that has dozens of them? Ridiculous.

But consider the typical spending curve of a dedicated MWO player that emerges after some time: At first you buy lots of mechs to try them out, figure out what works for your play style and what doesn't. You get some premium time because you want to reduce the time it takes to grind. If you're impatient and/or rich, you might shell out MC to buy a new mech or two. Or you buy some hero mechs. But after a while, that exploratory phase is over and you're left with a few good mechs that you enjoy, and earning money and xp becomes a lot less important.

That's the point I am at at the moment. I've got a whole bunch of mechs that are fun to play, and I don't have much desire to hurry up and get new ones. I bought a hero mech, and paid for some other variants with MC. I'm now going to let my premium time lapse and not bother getting a renewal, because by now I play the game for the fun of each match, not to get the next better piece of hardware.

What this means is that if PGI end up with a more or less stable user base - and if my experience is at all representative - then the more time elapses, the less real money people are going to spend on stuff. So in drafting up their business plan, they probably came to the conclusion that they are going to have to frontload their income generation. They have to try and generate more income from premium transactions at the start, because the longer someone plays, the less they are likely to spend.

I'm not a business person, so take all of this with a grain of salt. But I don't really see where in their business model there is something for long-term players to consistently spend money on in the, well, in the long term. Hero mechs will only go so far, for the reasons outlined above: Once you've got something you like, you start settling down and get less hungry. Personally, I've never bothered with cockpit items and don't really see why anyone would, though the fact that spectators will see them is a great mechanic in that regard. The only thing that I personally can see myself consistently spending MC on in the long term are paint jobs and other future avenues of mech customization - but they'd have to produce a much higher quantity and quality of content in that area to generate stable income from that.

There are some glaring holes in PGI's Free-to-Play model, though. For example, I can't quite understand the logic behind not allowing item purchases with MC - weapons, items, upgrades, modules. I'm honestly a little dumbfounded that they don't have that in the game yet. Imagine how much more MC would be spent if you could for example purchase XL Engines with them.

So, my conclusion from this is that the high MC prices of mechs, paintjobs, etc. aren't an indicator of money-grabbing greed, but of a thought through business plan meant to ensure the game's long-term commercial viability, something that I think we can all get behind. I'd love to keep playing this game for a long while!

I'm not sure why they don't allow purchasing of loadout items etc. with MC. But I'm willing to concede that this might not be because of an oversight, but maybe because they are struggling with the morality of milking players' bank accounts. In any case, I like PGI a lot more now.

So here's a message to the devs: Allowing loadout items/upgrades/modules to be purchased with MC does not equal "pay to win". It only does if you have "premium" items that can only be purchased with MC, which is definitely something you should at all cost avoid introducing. But other than that, if "premium" means "convenience", then allowing me to pay for that XL360 Engine with a microtransaction (and I really do mean micro - from 20c to 2$ at most) would make a great addition to the existing free-to-play model.

Thank you for your attention.

TL;DR version:
High MC prices for Hero Mechs and other Premium content are a symptom of a frontloading business model. The longer you play, the less you spend - so PGI have to coax you into paying while you're still hot for new stuff.

Edited by Kashaar, 17 February 2013 - 08:03 AM.

[TwentyOne]

TL;DR!!!!!!!!!!!

They need more GOOD hero mech's like the muromets If they want to swim in cash.
And It would be cool if you could buy mechays for like 10 mil C-bills

[Kashaar]

I can totally see why would think that. I added a TL;DR version.

[Zerethon]

TwentyOne, on 17 February 2013 - 07:53 AM, said:

TL;DR!!!!!!!!!!!

They need more GOOD hero mech's like the muromets If they want to swim in cash.
And It would be cool if you could buy mechays for like 10 mil C-bills

You are part of everything that's wrong with this game. non-MC Mechbays shouldn't be purchased, they should be -earned- by investing in a mech long enough.

Also, TERRIFYINGLY BLINDINGLY OBVIOUS FREAKING REASON FOR MECHS COSTING A LOT OF MC. Are you ready?

Mechs bought with MC can be sold for CBills like any other mech purchased with CBills. If mechs were cheaper, Cbill costs would have to be cheaper, or people would be able to buy power effectively by purchasing something like AS7K's for 300 MC and then selling them for 7m CB or so.

Current pricing is bloody fine.

Also, Purchasing items with MC can be construed as buying power which would put off people like me, who have invested HUNDREDS OR THOUSANDS OF HOURS to -EARN- our mechs and loadouts.

Edited by Zerethon, 17 February 2013 - 08:08 AM.

[Mycrus]

to avoid P2W, how about using MC to convert XP into c-bills?

[Zerethon]

Mycrus, on 17 February 2013 - 08:14 AM, said:

to avoid P2W, how about using MC to convert XP into c-bills?

How about using MC to convert XP to GXP to purchase modules faster, or master a mech chassis so it's more effective? oh wait.

[xX_Nero_Xx]

there not resonable but ppl paid high prices in wot so they eventually will pay them here and thats what there hopeing for....to be honest there right some ppl will pay and are paying

[Kashaar]

Zerethon, on 17 February 2013 - 08:07 AM, said:

Also, Purchasing items with MC can be construed as buying power which would put off people like me, who have invested HUNDREDS OR THOUSANDS OF HOURS to -EARN- our mechs and loadouts.

It is, but so is buying Mechs with MC. If "Premium" is supposed to be equal to "convenience" and not exclusivity, I don't see a problem with it.

[Zerethon]

Kashaar, on 17 February 2013 - 08:18 AM, said:

It is, but so is buying Mechs with MC. If "Premium" is supposed to be equal to "convenience" and not exclusivity, I don't see a problem with it.

Lets put this into perspective so you realize how backwards that statement is, Ready?

If i buy a CTF-3D with MC to build into a poptart, it comes with the stock loadout (XL280, UAC, LBX, etc.)

i then have to sell or remove it's base items to add DHS, Endo steel, a new engine, 2PPC's and a gauss rifle, which ends up costing more than the base chassis was worth

My Catapult-C4, for instance:

Bought base chassis with MC back in early OB, sold existing weapons (SL, LRM20), bought XL305, 2 LRM15's, 2 ML's, Later removed 1 ML to add TAG, and added both endo and Double heat sinks to make room for Artemis systems on the 15's and 2 SRM6 racks

even after selling the stock components, i had to invest over 5.5 million C-Bills i spent many hours farming in my C1 to build my C4

That's not "Buying power" as no stock mech loadout (Even hero mechs) holds a candle to the average customized mech.

[Kashaar]

Sorry Zerethon, but your argument makes no sense. It seems that you are outraged about other players being able to afford to pay for content and get it instantly, while you have to play for a long time to afford it. While I can see how that can be infuriating, that's not what pay-to-win means.

Pay-to-win means: To be able to get a competitive advantage through spending money. And if equipment can be purchased with MC as well as C-Bills, the only advantage gained by spending MC is that you get it faster. You don't perform better. Skill is still the deciding factor.

I don't know your situation, but consider the living circumstances of a 30-something gamer with a wife or husband, 3 kids and a full-time job, who likes to play a few rounds of MWO in the evenings. That gamer won't be able to grind enough C-Bills to buy their next mech nearly as fast as another gamer who is in school or unemployed, has lots of free time but little disposable income. One of them has abundant time, the other abundant money. It's a basic principle of the free-to-play business model that "time is money" - you can spend real cash to save time.

But think about it: Who will have more skill? The gamer who put in hundreds of hours playing the game, or the one who spends some cash and only plays a few matches every other day?

Edit: Personally, I thoroughly enjoy popping people in Hero mechs who have a shiny Chassis but no skill whatsoever. As long as money isnt a substitute for skill, it's fine.

Edited by Kashaar, 17 February 2013 - 08:50 AM.

[Zerethon]

Kashaar, on 17 February 2013 - 08:47 AM, said:

Sorry Zerethon, but your argument makes no sense. It seems that you are outraged about other players being able to afford to pay for content and get it instantly, while you have to play for a long time to afford it. While I can see how that can be infuriating, that's not what pay-to-win means.

Pay-to-win means: To be able to get a competitive advantage through spending money. And if equipment can be purchased with MC as well as C-Bills, the only advantage gained by spending MC is that you get it faster. You don't perform better. Skill is still the deciding factor.

I don't know your situation, but consider the living circumstances of a 30-something gamer with a wife or husband, 3 kids and a full-time job, who likes to play a few rounds of MWO in the evenings. That gamer won't be able to grind enough C-Bills to buy their next mech nearly as fast as another gamer who is in school or unemployed, has lots of free time but little disposable income. One of them has abundant time, the other abundant money. It's a basic principle of the free-to-play business model that "time is money" - you can spend real cash to save time.

But think about it: Who will have more skill? The gamer who put in hundreds of hours playing the game, or the one who spends some cash and only plays a few matches every other day?

Lets just say i have both the time and disposable income, personally.

Games with the "Buy it with cash or earn it in game" ALWAYS cause outrage among their fanbase over various things (See: Planetside 2, Tribes: Ascend, Blacklight, etc.)

MWO that problem would be MAGNIFIED by far, if you "Own" the xl305, it only works on one mech, you have to own several to be able to use it on other mechs.

to someone playing entirely F2P, someone spending 50$ to have the convenience of 4 XL's over them, where they have to farm 20m+ CB to have the same (Something that takes, at BEST, 100 wins @ 200k a win) that's buying power. they circumvent the games to have the same advantage in less time.

I heard the "Skill" argument all day in tribes. and yet a level 1 brute with all the toys bought by gold could still kill an opposing Level 30+ player who earned all his toys by spamming generically into chokepoints. If it were possible, a fully-MC-bought atlas could still kill a much better brawler pilot with a lucky alpha. Not much different.

Edited by Zerethon, 17 February 2013 - 09:02 AM.

[Kashaar]

I was actually very careful to avoid a personal insult in my post, and I'm sorry you have perceived it that way. I guess I just don't see a problem with paying for convenience, and I don't have a problem with other people paying more to have more convenience than me. It took me a long time to decide to buy my hero mech, and in retrospect it was a bit unnecessary (even though it was the Ilya). I don't mind if other people spend more money, own 20 mechs and every single hero mech, as long as I can still be a more than equal match for them in a regular chassis variant.

You obviously feel differently, and you have laid out your reasons. Let's agree to disagree.

Edited by Kashaar, 17 February 2013 - 09:02 AM.

[mike29tw]

If you have to make a wall of text post to explain why the MC price is reasonable, we can probably conclude that the MC price is NOT reasonable at all.

Edited by mike29tw, 17 February 2013 - 09:05 AM.

[Kashaar]

mike29tw, on 17 February 2013 - 09:05 AM, said:

If you have to make a wall of text post to explain why the MC price is reasonable, we can probably conclude that the MC price is NOT reasonable at all.

Speak for yourself. Some of us still prefer carefully constructed, rational argument to superficial, emotional shouting matches.

[Warskull]

I would pay MC for non-hero versions of heroes mechs if I could get them for a lower price. Basically, an Ilya that costs 525 instead of 5,250, gets no special paint job, and gets no C-bill bonus. It just has the hard points and layout of the hero version. A cheap House Laio knockoff.

Also, you should be able to buy $10-30 paint patterns that give your mech a C-bill/XP bonus. That seems like something people would pay for.

Edited by Warskull, 17 February 2013 - 09:10 AM.

[Zerethon]

mike29tw, on 17 February 2013 - 09:05 AM, said:

If you have to make a wall of text post to explain why the MC price is reasonable, we can probably conclude that the MC price is NOT reasonable at all.

His wall of text post was covering for the bottom 3-4 line post explaining and extrapolating a hollow reasoning for the idea of "Everything should be purchasable with MC" because apparently that's less Pay2Win than the current system or something where the current system is arguably pretty solid in terms of F2P Models.

[Kashaar]

Zerethon, on 17 February 2013 - 09:09 AM, said:

His wall of text post was covering for the bottom 3-4 line post explaining and extrapolating a hollow reasoning for the idea of "Everything should be purchasable with MC" because apparently that's less Pay2Win than the current system or something where the current system is arguably pretty solid in terms of F2P Models.

I see you have decided to deliberately misunderstand me. Suit yourself.

Warskull, on 17 February 2013 - 09:08 AM, said:

I would pay MC for non-hero versions of heroes mechs if I could get them for a lower price. Basically, an Ilya that costs 525 instead of 5,250, gets no special paint job, and gets no C-bill bonus. It just has the hard points and layout of the hero version. A cheap House Laio knockoff.

That's exactly what I'm addressing in the OP. For pure value, 25$ for a hero mech is way too expensive. But if you consider that it means you won't have to spend any more money at a later point and can keep that mech for life, it's a different story.

Quote

Also, you should be able to buy $10-30 paint patterns that give your mech a C-bill/XP bonus. That seems like something people would pay for.

Not a bad idea, actually.

[Taizan]

It's always easier to lower prices (for sales / specials) than increase them, so it is smarter to have them at a higher price point from the get go.

[Daiichidoku]

Zerethon, on 17 February 2013 - 08:25 AM, said:

If i buy a

you buy the mech that will give you enough cbills in resale to buy the mech you want

if that is not enough, you buy a second mech calculated to give you the needed cbills in resale to buy the mech you want

[Demoned]

@Kashaar

good topic matey it was a good read and,
i also don't see the problem in buy items with MC
for convenience sake at least but i can also see why some people would shout "BUT".

i think what people are trying to say is,

that if all can be brought with MC, there is no grinding to be done in game at all,
with MC we can skip grinding on the Mechs themselves, but i do feel some grinding is needed, to at least **** it out.
or else it may become a them and us game, which isn't good in any form.

to keep the community as one their needs to be a feeling that we all earn our mechs in one way or another.


again don't get me wrong, I like the idea of buying XL engines with MC, god knows that would of saved some time lol

yes I'm a working man with other things to do