221 replies to this topic

[Twisted Power]

Caleb Lee, on 26 February 2013 - 03:31 PM, said:

They aren't forcing anyone to play in a particular play style,

I stopped there... Yes they are.

They said so themselves, that they want to influence their own Meta by "balancing" (ha) so that you play "the way the developers had in mind". That is what ECM is trying to do. It does it too well (IMO). PGI seems to think though that this is the gameplay you should have.

Edited by Twisted Power, 26 February 2013 - 03:43 PM.

[Caleb Lee]

Twisted Power, on 26 February 2013 - 03:39 PM, said:

I stopped there... Yes they are.

They said so themselves, that they want to influence their own Meta by "balancing" (ha) so that you play "the way the developers had in mind". That is what ECM is trying to do. It does it too well (IMO). PGI seems to think though that this is the gameplay you should have.

This discussion was about ECM which is broken and why it needs to be addressed ASAP. Now you're starting to hi-jack the thread into matchmaking and Lone Wolf vs PUG vs Unit discussion. I simply pointed out that online multiplayer has and always will be dominated by teams, even 4 man PUGs working together on voice will usually stomp Lone Wolfs. I've yet to play any other games that this wasn't true and I've played a LOT.

So please, go start yet another of the many threads QQing about Matchmaking and why PGI should cater to solo players. This thread is about ECM.

[StalaggtIKE]

@Caleb Lee: I guess the pugs vs. premades is a sore subject for you. That wasn't my point; I could care less about that. As you say ECM is tough even over coms, well my point is, it's that much worse for someone trying to type it all out.

[Inertiaman]

We've been doing it wrong!

http://mwomercs.com/...pinning-policy/

/liked
//reported!?

[Inertiaman]

Or I would like it if it were.....erm...possible to.

[Jungle Rhino]

Well we all have more than 100 posts so our opinions are of no concern...

[Inertiaman]

At least I have the inordinate income from my ecm raven to dull the pain.

[StalaggtIKE]

I have a challenge for the naysayers: The ECM challenge

If you state that ECM does not increase odds of winning then don't use it. Don't allow your team to use it; have those carrying it to switch to ECCM (counter mode).

If you state that losing radar capabilities does not effect your gameplay, then don't use your hub. Use only your MK I Eyeball. Remove your hub (press F11+ Shift). /rant

Edit: Had a game the other day were a guy monologued about how ECM is perfectly balanced and non- exploitable, while under cover of a pair of D-DC's ECM umbrella.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 27 February 2013 - 05:41 AM.

[Twisted Power]

Caleb Lee, on 26 February 2013 - 04:06 PM, said:

Now you're starting to hi-jack the thread into matchmaking and Lone Wolf vs PUG vs Unit discussion.

This is not what I did at all.

The thesis of my post was: The current ECM implementation in MWO is being used to control game play via restriction and that PGI is purposely trying to direct this game play by revolving mech builds and game balance around this item.

It was dead on topic.

[Flapdrol]

Yeah, ECM killing the hud just sucks in pug play.

[Corvus Antaka]

imho the situation is improving. for now I think patience is more called for than anything. ECM stacking remains an issue, as does the 3L, some counter to this available to the other team regardless of they themselves having ECM will hopefully arrive that will at least give non-ECM teams some ability to fight back (like BAP detecting & locking ECM mechs with adv sensor range at 500m in example)

[Twisted Power]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 27 February 2013 - 04:54 PM, said:

the situation is improving... patience is... called for. ECM stacking remains an issue... some counter... will hopefully arrive that [give] the ability to fight back (like BAP detecting & locking ECM mechs with adv sensor range at 500m in example)

How?... Why?... Yes it does that why this thread is here... hopefully is not good enough... where did you get these examples PGI has no plans for these things.

Please give links so that I may be hopefull and I will log onto MWO right now (which I have not and I won't be logging in anymore untill there is a fix) and I'll grind out w/e money is needed to buy said examples for every mech I own (37).

Edited by Twisted Power, 27 February 2013 - 05:16 PM.

[Corvus Antaka]

Twisted Power, on 27 February 2013 - 05:14 PM, said:

How?... Why?... Yes it does that why this thread is here... hopefully is not good enough... where did you get these examples PGI has no plans for these things.

Please give links so that I may be hopefull and I will log onto MWO right now (which I have not and I won't be logging in anymore untill there is a fix) and I'll grind out w/e money is needed to buy said examples for every mech I own (37).

My point is that PGI is not clueless to the issue, things have already improved, and I think for now wait and see might be in order.

[Marcus Tanner]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 27 February 2013 - 05:32 PM, said:

My point is that PGI is not clueless to the issue, things have already improved, and I think for now wait and see might be in order.

I think we've waited and seen quite enough.

All this waiting and still I don't see how ECM and BAP are in the same ballpark, let alone identical in power. Until that case can be made by a sober MWO player I take it as more than enough evidence of poor design.

[Armando]

Different tread, same very vocal 6-12 people complaining about an piece of equipment that was released months ago, which the majority of the player base adjusted to 7-10 days after its release, but for some reason they can't (actually, I would say WON'T adjust to). If you think ECM is fine, keep it to yourself or 'they' will try to organize a drop against you and 'try' to take you out. (I say 'try' because if ECM is giving them issues, I would imagine that facing a good/great pilot would be far, Far, FAR to much for these people).

Observations about ECM after a marathon gamming session this weekend...
...ERPPCs/PPCs turning off ECM is working.
...STK-5M with dual PPCs, and 5 SSRM2s is "the" anti ECM mech. Once inside 270 mechs just melt (ECM or not).
...Pugging it this weekend my team frequently went up against teams that had more ECM us, and won more than we lost.

[ICEFANG13]

Show me the thread where a majority support it. I guess me being the 30th of lights, with only a Jenner-D and DocBach as 10th in mediums means we can't play huh? That we need to learn?

Get real. ECM is OP to its tonnage and slots. How many mechs that can use it, use it?

[DocBach]

Armando, on 27 February 2013 - 09:25 PM, said:

...Pugging it this weekend my team frequently went up against teams that had more ECM us, and won more than we lost.

You are in a way high ELO bracket, the teams we played on had good players, not the average pugs that ECM affects the most. Like I've said before, my problem with ECM isn't that it's hard for me to play, it's that I feel it's homogenized the tactics we see in the game to revolve around ECM to the point that it's becoming sterile.

[Haitchpeasauce]

Homogenized the tactics and also the mechs deployed in the field.

Then there's the times people troll up to run four to five ECM Ravens...

[Thorqemada]

ECM can be countered by direct fire but that does not solve the facts that ECM is an "Anti PUG Measure", makes IFF stop working while on both teams fight Mechs of identical or similar look, makes lag shooting impossible as you dont get a target doll at times so you simply can not predict if you do any damage, disables whole weapon systems for nothing more than a passive weight increase of 1,5 tons which is negligible and has no drawback at all to a Mech build and it makes BAP and NARC even more worthless than they already be while TAG has a reduced usability and does not counter ECM where its needed to be countered (at close range) while TAG does oposite to ECM lower the DPS of a Mech.
It also narrows down combat variety and mech variety.

People adapt allways - to the good and to the bad - it is no balance proof.

ECM needs rework!

PS: Team Colours dont help for identifying Friend and Foe bcs the "Grey Mech" bug is running ramapant lately.

Edited by Thorqemada, 28 February 2013 - 03:28 AM.

[Armando]

DocBach, on 27 February 2013 - 10:05 PM, said:

You are in a way high ELO bracket, the teams we played on had good players, not the average pugs that ECM affects the most. Like I've said before, my problem with ECM isn't that it's hard for me to play, it's that I feel it's homogenized the tactics we see in the game to revolve around ECM to the point that it's becoming sterile.

IDK, you might have a point because at times I had some really good/great teammates. Although, at other times it seem like everyone on my team just got done installing the game for the first time. As for my ELO bracket, I did 'alright' but I am far from being a 'top player' in the game (hell, I am far from being a 'top player' in my merc corps. LoL) and I would say I am 'average'.

I can off the top of my head name 20+ pilots better than myself and that is just in my own merc corps. While some of the people leading the boards in the tournament are indeed great pilots, many that made top 25 did so by playing a TON of matches…I was ‘9^th’ on assault leaderboard, but I am not a top 9 assault pilot, I am an average pilot who played a LOT of games.

I know that new players/puggers have issues, but I don't think it is because of ECM. The number one issue for a new player is the dang trial mechs....they are trash. No FF, no Endo, no double heat sinks, poor weapon load out/placement, you name it...it is bad. Want to give new players a 'fighting chance' give them a mech that can compete with "owned" mechs (IMO).

Then, once the new players/puggers do finally get a 'owned' mech, many don't know what changes they need to make to their new mechs to make it effective (at least I didn't), and as a result at times end up with something that is WORSE than a trial mech. As an example, many know that ECM is powerful so they go out and purchase a AS7-D-DC (great mech btw), and looking at it from the cockpit it 'seems' like they are just like the 'other ECM AS7-D-DCs (AC/20, medium laser x2, SRM6 x3).

What they DON'T realize is that a lot of the ‘top’ D-DC pilots run a STD350 instead of a STD300. From the cockpit they ‘look’ like the same mech (load out wise), but there is a HUGE difference between running in the low 50s KPH instead of at 62.4 KPH (how fast a D-DC goes with a STD350 and speed tweak).

This is NOT an 'easy' game, and I like that. At first my K/D and win/loss was NOT good (losing more than winning, with a K/D sub .5), and it took a lot of research and time before I saw any improvement (there was improvement). Things got better as time went on but I was still losing more than winning and dying more than killing and I finally got fed up and finally found a merc corps (there are many good merc corps who are recruiting btw)

Yes, having good/great teammates fighting next to you DOES make it a lot easier (much like ECM does make it easier), but the improvement was MORE than just my new teammates. My mech corps had a series of assignments that made ME a better pilot. I learned how to perform all the rolls (Scout, Skirmisher, LRM Support, Fire Support, Brawling), I learned how to load out my mechs, I learned how to win matches even when my team didn't have ECM while the other team did.

Trust me when I tell you I am nothing special, and if I can learn these things (how to load out an 'owned' mech, how to play against a team that has superior ECM, how to torso twist, how NOT to get out of position, etc.) anyone who puts in the time, energy, effort can (again, I am NOT special, great, or even good IMO). Because of that time, energy, research, etc. I am what I am today...an 'average' pilot (A lot better than when I started playing but a far, Far, FAR cry from being a true ‘top’ pilot).

Trust me when I tell you that while ECM is very powerful, the game is better with it than it was before it, and it has (and will) get better.

Trust me when I tell you that ELO is working (at least somewhat) and that if you are an average pilot (like myself) things are not as easy as they once were...matches are ending (for me at least) with a lot more 8-3 / 3-8, 8-5 / 5-8, and 8-7 / 7-8 compared to the 8-0 / 0-8 blow outs that were happening when top pilots were going against people who just installed the game.

New players/puggers have many issues facing them, but ECM is down on the list IMO…

…trial mechs need to get better
…ELO is good it too can be improved on
…they REALLY need a training ground to learn the VERY basics (like how to move around without getting hung up on buildings, cars, etc).

Also, don't get it twisted...ECM does need more tweaking, thing like the PPC disable, and range changes is one step (hopefully of many) in the right direction. That said, ECM is not 'game breaking' (ECM heavy teams CAN be beat). Equipping EMC is not "God Mode"...you can die just like any other mech (God Mode to me means you can't be killed), and you are not going to get 5-8 kills per match just because you have a ECM mech (what "God Mode" would really be like IMO).

ECM will help a bad pilot, but it isn't going to keep him from running in a straight line to an enemy mech (instead of strafing). ECM isn't going to keep him from facing down a D-DC and getting cored (instead of torso twisting to spread out the damage). ECM isn't going to keep him from running though the arch, alone, face first into a team of 8 waiting on the other side (instead of sticking with his teammates). These things (and many others) are the differences between a "Good" pilot and a "Bad" pilot....ECM, while it can be a crutch for a bad pilot...isn't going to make him good.

I have every mech in the game (61 + an extra D-DC....62 total mechs), ALL have at least speed tweak unlocked, while 32 of them have the master module unlocked, and I have at least one of every chassis mastered. I can tell you first hand that I don't magically get 'better' when I slide into an ECM mech. I can also tell you that the most and truly "overpowered" mechs can't even equip ECM (CPLT-A1, HBK-4SP, CN9-A. etc).

TL:DR – Don’t believe the ECM hype…If you want to make your pugging experience better....by an 'owned' mech ASAP (trial mechs are trash), find and build a 'owned' mech using a good load out, learn to torso twist, pay attention to what is happening around you in battle (check your flanks/back every 10-15 seconds if you are in a defensive position...i.e. - standing in one spot), don't run face first at an enemy in a straight line, and most important…stick with your teammates!!!