351 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

MadCat02, on 19 February 2013 - 03:17 PM, said:

Nice~! Randomly selected map that is 90% long range . So if people use srms like me i just stay in place and weit behind the corner hole round

Smart choice there


Quote:

If i do use balanced build like 4srm and 4 lasers i will still loose to random lrm player on that map

Yea like having ER Large lasers gona help anyone , you can't trade LRMs with that

Put some map artifacts at key points or something

Oh wait you're serious?

So you only brought knives to a sword fight. Who's the one making "smart" choices?

You know... maybe there is a reason many Mechs have weapons that are useful at different ranges
Welcome to tactical warfare.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 20 February 2013 - 05:42 AM.

[Icepick]

Wow, this thread just oozes hate...odd.

Played Alpine yesterday in an SRM A1. Not exactly the best map for the build, but a little common sense means you WILL get to fight. Usual rules apply, won't go over them here. There is cover available, it's just not so obvious.

It's a little boring hanging back with the ranged guys, but it will keep you from being a useless casualty.

[lsp]

MustrumRidcully, on 20 February 2013 - 05:37 AM, said:

I still find it a bit strange that it'S impossible to select which map you get to play. Not just because of the weapon loadout - but we have camo! Who woud enter a Desert map with Snow Camo?

Of course, being able to pre-select maps might lead to some maps "starving". But then, this is somethnig that could be very useful to know during Beta...

Having your mech painted different colors makes no difference. You could be bright pink or flat black, either way your going to be just as easy to see.

[Joseph Mallan]

lsp, on 20 February 2013 - 05:56 AM, said:

Having your mech painted different colors makes no difference. You could be bright pink or flat black, either way your going to be just as easy to see.

You're all just blue to me!

[lsp]

Joseph Mallan, on 20 February 2013 - 05:57 AM, said:

You're all just blue to me!

same here lol.

[wanderer]

warner2, on 19 February 2013 - 03:28 PM, said:

[size=4]

I think the OP has raised a legitimate concern to be honest.

The thing is, justifying large/small maps being in a rotation where you don't know what map is coming up next by saying that [size=4]this will force everyone to take "balanced" builds, which mix short/medium/long range, is really forcing people to play in a certain way. People don't like that.

Except, y'know it actually rewards/punishes overspecialization.

Put my fav LRM carriers into a map with heavy cover and easy-to-bring-in ECM and I suffer. Put it on Alpine and it's me that gets to bring the pain rather than you. That a weapon system does better on one set of terrain than another? MORE PLEASE.

It brings balance. If you can't depend on your 6x6 SRM cat doing the job all the time, then we either see fewer of them or someone's gonna have a bad pilot rating.

[Onmyoudo]

As usual, this thread is full of dismissive assumption.

Regardless of whether slow-moving brawlers should or should not be viable it is an inarguable fact that they have been a staple of the game since Open Beta, if not before. Suddenly having those mechs to be completely ineffective in new content while remaining just as viable in the old content creates a dissonance that is causing upset. This dissonance is noticeable because the new, large map is included in the same rotation as the older, small maps. The fact that the same mech playing the same game mode could drop into each map one after the other and have their build be completely negated in one while being very effective in the other four is odd to say the least.

Edit: In response to the above post, if you knew you were going to be dropping in River City instead of Alpine would you still bring your LRM boat? I would argue that that is a similar issue as having brawlers drop in Alpine, as everybody would like the option to bring a useful build for that terrain type.

Edited by Onmyoudo, 20 February 2013 - 06:10 AM.

[Fyrerock]

The only people who will have problems with Alpine are the ones that like to charge straight at the enemy, thanks to the big ridges even people with short range weapons will be able to get close enough to engage in brawling range most of the time.

[hashinshin]

To be fair, it is a problem. Having a random map be so fundamentally different than the other maps makes it so it's still the best idea 90% of the time to have a shorter ranged build, only to get screwed 10% of the time because the devs were beta testing larger maps.

Cut it any way you like, it'd be like playing poker 90% of the time, but 10% of the time it just randomly says "nope we're playing MTG now!" and you're sitting there with a full house.

[Bguk]

Onmyoudo, on 20 February 2013 - 06:06 AM, said:

As usual, this thread is full of dismissive assumption.

Regardless of whether slow-moving brawlers should or should not be viable it is an inarguable fact that they have been a staple of the game since Open Beta, if not before. Suddenly having those mechs to be completely ineffective in new content while remaining just as viable in the old content creates a dissonance that is causing upset. This dissonance is noticeable because the new, large map is included in the same rotation as the older, small maps. The fact that the same mech playing the same game mode could drop into each map one after the other and have their build be completely negated in one while being very effective in the other four is odd to say the least.

Stating a build is ineffective on a map that hasn't even been out a full day is quite crappy. It's a statement that is just thrown out there without any effort put forth by the player to see how a build can be utilized on a map. Any build can be utilized on any map. Alpine does not completely negate short range builds. I found that out the one time I played the map.

What the larger maps should do is promote teamwork.

Edited by Bguk, 20 February 2013 - 06:10 AM.

[STRONG LIKE BEAR]

Wytchblades, on 19 February 2013 - 03:53 PM, said:

Speaking of which, anyone know if we will get a PVE component to this game?

Already in. Look for the founder tag.

Their AI is so poorly-scripted, they are all PVE content

[hashinshin]

Bguk, on 20 February 2013 - 06:09 AM, said:

Stating a build is ineffective on a map that hasn't even been out a full day is quite crappy. It's a statement that is just thrown out there without any effort put forth by the player to see how a build can be utilized on a map. Any build can be utilized on any map. Alpine does not completely negate short range builds. I found that out the one time I played the map.

What the larger maps should do is promote teamwork.

if you can't even accept that a large map with massive open 1000k+ alleys makes short range weapons ineffective then you're not worth talking to. You're beyond stubborn.

[TDR3D]

MadCat02, on 19 February 2013 - 03:17 PM, said:

THX TO NEW MAP I CAN'T CARRY SHORT RANGE WEAPONS

You can, you just choose not to.

Edited by TDR3D, 20 February 2013 - 06:12 AM.

[Kahoumono]

I like how people rant on how this will teach the splatcats a lesson, so boating LRMs is any different than boating SRMs? Also, this map is terrible. Just imagine when you have to fight clanners on this map, this will be the worst map ever. A complete over reaction to all the people complaining about ECM and streaks.

[Bguk]

hashinshin, on 20 February 2013 - 06:11 AM, said:

if you can't even accept that a large map with massive open 1000k+ alleys makes short range weapons ineffective then you're not worth talking to. You're beyond stubborn.

I love being dismissed. Not sorry my opinion differs from yours. I played Alpine once yesterday in my short range Stalker, SRMs and medium lasers. Took me awhile to get to the enemy but it happened. Stuck with the team, took some damage on the way, eventually met the enemy. It's not stubborn it's called one game of experience on one map.

It takes a bit more work with short range weapons. If one doesn't like to work for it and be equipped for all occasions, they by all means, play a varied loadout. It's not being stubborn.

[elbloom]

I´d throw a meme at those delicious tears in here but the mods got too triggerhappy, don´t allow a good laugh anymore... but whatever delicious

Q.Q.

[Shismar]

Far from disliking the new map, haven't had a chance to try it, it does sound like a nice change in pace. Of course specialized short range builds will be at a disadvantage there, that is the intention of this map as I understand it.

It might be good if we could select the mech we drop with after the map has been selected by the matchmaker. Not from the complete garage, of course, but from the four preselected mechs. The mechanics should be similar to what will need to be implemented for the dropship mutator mode. Just that here you only select the first mech to drop with. This way there could be quite some flexibility in reacting to the different environments without going all out specialized builds.

[Sean von Steinike]

zverofaust, on 19 February 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

Oh my god you mean map variety has killed your ability to boat the same gimmicky fit all day long? Oh no!

If you put as much effort into fitting your mech to maximize versatility as you put into whining, you'd be doing better.

I agreed with Zverofaust and he wasn't even whining. Truly this must be the end of things!

hashinshin, on 20 February 2013 - 06:08 AM, said:

To be fair, it is a problem. Having a random map be so fundamentally different than the other maps makes it so it's still the best idea 90% of the time to have a shorter ranged build, only to get screwed 10% of the time because the devs were beta testing larger maps.

Cut it any way you like, it'd be like playing poker 90% of the time, but 10% of the time it just randomly says "nope we're playing MTG now!" and you're sitting there with a full house.

With any luck the number of large, medium, and small maps will balance out in the rotation as more get added.

[Roland]

What alpine does is reduce your ability to take slow moving brawlers who carry ONLY short range weapons.

You can still carry short range mechs.. but they need to be much more mobile. They can't move at 50 kph.

Or, you can take slow moving mechs, but they need to be able to engage at extreme range.

Honestly, this aspect of Alpine (which I initially reacted poorly to) is not bad, I don't think.

[Kylere]

I just want to FIGHT in Alpine. 15 minutes is not long enough, and it has been constant base rushing.

This map is inbalanced.