351 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Onmyoudo, on 20 February 2013 - 06:06 AM, said:

Edit: In response to the above post, if you knew you were going to be dropping in River City instead of Alpine would you still bring your LRM boat? I would argue that that is a similar issue as having brawlers drop in Alpine, as everybody would like the option to bring a useful build for that terrain type.

In response to this. A wise player builds for most eventualities. I can take my Atlas-D-DC(Gauss, ERPPC, 3x SRM6) on any map (to date) and have excellent success. I can because I have built it to be a good combat platform no matter what I am engaging or where I am engaging them.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 20 February 2013 - 06:28 AM.

[Bguk]

Joseph Mallan, on 20 February 2013 - 06:27 AM, said:

In response to this. A wise player builds for most eventualities. I can take my Atlas-D-DC(Gauss, ERPPC, 3x SRM6) on any map (to date) and have excellent success. I can because I have built it to be a good combat platform no matter what I am engaging or where I am engaging them.

It's not just building for all eventualities but playing smart based on terrain. If you know there are open spaces and one is driving a short range mech, use cover to your advantage. I believe Alpine has some alleys one can still be hit(extremely limited experience as I only played it once, boo) but there was a ton of cover still.

[Onmyoudo]

Bguk, on 20 February 2013 - 06:09 AM, said:

Stating a build is ineffective on a map that hasn't even been out a full day is quite crappy. It's a statement that is just thrown out there without any effort put forth by the player to see how a build can be utilized on a map. Any build can be utilized on any map. Alpine does not completely negate short range builds. I found that out the one time I played the map.

What the larger maps should do is promote teamwork.

I haven't played a lot of the new map yet, so I am willing to concede that short-range builds may not be totally useless. I was merely trying to make a point regarding the large disparity in mech values based on a completely random map assignation, which hashinshin also encapsulated in his post. This is an issue due to the luck of the draw nature of the matchmaker.

Teamwork is hard to foster in PUGs who may or may not even speak your language, although I agree that should be the ideal.

[Joseph Mallan]

Great points as always Bguk.
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Is your name pronounced phonetically?
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Like a chicken cluck?

[Steinar Bergstol]

KamikazeRat, on 19 February 2013 - 04:10 PM, said:

but my thing is if this were "real" i'd know where i was dropping, and having a stable of 4 mechs, i'd be able to go "going to caustic valley, ok my HBK-4SP runs a bit hot, ill go with the HPK-4G" or "dropping alpine, lets go with something longer range, that 4G just doesn't have the range and im going to get chewed on before i get a shot off"
(i know silly thought, aiming for realisim in a MMO)

Actually, if this were "real" you'd be lucky to have a single mech with a single loadout you would have to pilot in every battle your unit were to fight. Individual people owning multiple mechs in the Battletech universe are so rare as to be an insignificant percentage. People able to customize their mechs from battle to battle (without that mech being an omnimech) is equally rare. Hell, most private individuals would have enough trouble just trying to keep their one mech with its one loadout in working condition, nevermind getting the materials to customize it at all. That's the situation you would be in. If this was "real", I mean.

[DogmeatX]

ownka, on 19 February 2013 - 03:18 PM, said:

Try running short range weapons on a fast mech, or defending your LRMboats/snipers.
Putting shotguns on your 40kph atlas never really made sense. The only reason it worked was every map being point blank brawling.

Because 99% of the existing maps allow for and essentially encourage short range fighting. I can't believe the ****** level in these forums for what's supposed to be a thinking man's shooter.

Why should you go for longer range setup just for ONE map? When it likely handicap you for the others?

Look there's only one real solution to this, and with it solution towards premades as well: INGAME LOBBIES.

BEFORE the round begins you get to see which map is coming up. You get to see the mechs your team has. You get some time to change your mech and loadout to suit. THEN the map loads.

This solves the majority of these issues. So simple I wonder why other games don't have stuff like this. Oh wait they do!

Edited by DogmeatX, 20 February 2013 - 06:39 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Thanks Steinar... I tend to forget those points. I do however pilot one Mech in one config 80%(ish) of the time and it serves me well.

[Dr Killinger]

Well, before it was 90% short range, so long range folks were feeling boned. Now people must balance short and long range, and I think that's good.

[Kingdok]

Afoxi, on 19 February 2013 - 04:00 PM, said:

Nice, now more urban maps to screw with Gauss cats please.

How about 'Dropship Graveyard' on an Alpine-sized map? Not so much with the peaks and valleys, but rather a huge scrapyard spread out across the plain. Lots and lots of dark alleys and techno-rubble, and you could hide yourself by powering down in a pile of scrap mech's. I want it bad...

[Bguk]

Onmyoudo, on 20 February 2013 - 06:34 AM, said:

I haven't played a lot of the new map yet, so I am willing to concede that short-range builds may not be totally useless. I was merely trying to make a point regarding the large disparity in mech values based on a completely random map assignation, which hashinshin also encapsulated in his post. This is an issue due to the luck of the draw nature of the matchmaker.

Teamwork is hard to foster in PUGs who may or may not even speak your language, although I agree that should be the ideal.

My point was to hashinshin as he just dismissed me just due to the fact I disagreed.

No question there will be a disparity. I see that as a good thing. It makes a player think a little about their choices. Do I want to play the long range game or short? I like the extra risk/reward associated with the randomness.

Joseph Mallan, on 20 February 2013 - 06:34 AM, said:

Is your name pronounced phonetically?
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Like a chicken cluck?

Guys who I've been playing with have been clucking at me for awhile so yeah, it's like a chicken. And I play like that as well!

[warner2]

Kylere, on 20 February 2013 - 06:26 AM, said:

I just want to FIGHT in Alpine. 15 minutes is not long enough, and it has been constant base rushing.

This map is inbalanced.

It's not the map, to be fair, it's the game mode.

I've not played it so will reserve judgement however it's fairly obvious that assault mode on a really big map is not a good idea. I've no idea yet whether Alpine is big enough to fall into that category. If it does, it needs another game mode, or at least having the capture points adjusted upwards?

[Scrawny Cowboy]

Kahoumono, on 20 February 2013 - 06:12 AM, said:

..J
ust imagine when you have to fight clanners on this map
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*chills*

On topic:
Coming from a DDC brawler (AC20, SRM6s, med lasers...) I welcome this change of pace.

Just would like to drop once on Alpine though... after 20 matches...

[The Mecha Streisand]

MadCat02, on 19 February 2013 - 03:17 PM, said:

Nice~! Randomly selected map that is 90% long range . So if people use srms like me i just stay in place and weit behind the corner hole round

Smart choice there


Quote:

If i do use balanced build like 4srm and 4 lasers i will still loose to random lrm player on that map

Yea like having ER Large lasers gona help anyone , you can't trade LRMs with that

Put some map artifacts at key points or something

At least you got to SEE the new map. Congratulations on that, by the way--seems it's a bit of an honor to be shown the Alpine Peaks map...

[Lukoi Banacek]

Only got to fight Alpine three times yesterday. In all three cases I saw heavy brawler loadouts and in two of the three, I saw them used very very effectively (including an AC20/SRM atlas build, a SRM6-pack Stalker builder among others). Those pilots were very smart about moving under ECM cover, utilizing the prodigious ridges and even other mechs with AMS to make their approaches before blasting people point blank with their short range loadouts.

In the third case, two splattercats attempted to cross the open area in E5 without using any cover and were snipe-gutted to ribbons by PPC/Guass and later LL. And frankly, deservedly so.

I've no fear of bringing a short range brawler and I'm no ace pilot but if you don't understand the basic principals of fire and manuever and using cover when you move (and there is cover on Alpine, whether you choose to use it or for the sake of impatience just try and cut across open ground) then you're right, you cannot carry short range weapons.

[Onmyoudo]

Joseph Mallan, on 20 February 2013 - 06:27 AM, said:

In response to this. A wise player builds for most eventualities. I can take my Atlas-D-DC(Gauss, ERPPC, 3x SRM6) on any map (to date) and have excellent success. I can because I have built it to be a good combat platform no matter what I am engaging or where I am engaging them.

That's as may be - but the Atlas is a very, very solid max-tonnage mech and the D-DC had ECM and hence less to worry about regarding LRM rain. Could you do the same in a Hunchback? AC/20 and 2 large lasers maybe? What about a Cataphract? I can think of a couple builds, but for the most part you're bringing a lot less firepower than a full brawler which may well see you decimated on everything but Alpine. Obviously teamwork and player skill factor heavily into this, but I am speaking in hypotheticals.

[warner2]

DogmeatX, on 20 February 2013 - 06:38 AM, said:

Because 99% of the existing maps allow for and essentially encourage short range fighting. I can't believe the ****** level in these forums for what's supposed to be a thinking man's shooter.

Why should you go for longer range setup just for ONE map? When it likely handicap you for the others?

Look there's only one real solution to this, and with it solution towards premades as well: INGAME LOBBIES.

BEFORE the round begins you get to see which map is coming up. You get to see the mechs your team has. You get some time to change your mech and loadout to suit. THEN the map loads.

This solves the majority of these issues. So simple I wonder why other games don't have stuff like this. Oh wait they do!

There's a really clear reason why this was not done off the bat and that is because it's much harder.

It's much easy for PGI to get a queue of players and their mechs that have already clicked launch, and then put them into random matches based on some match-maker. Everything is known up-front, in-particular the mech (or class of mech, or tonnage of mech).

Doing what you describe would be great but is much harder, which is presumably why it wasn't done like this off the bat, unfortunately.

[Joseph Mallan]

Treb with Ultra5, 2 Meds, and a 4pack. Cover your ranges. stick with allies. A brawler on A sprawling map will be at a disadvantage, like a LRMboat is in a city.

[Onmyoudo]

Bguk, on 20 February 2013 - 06:41 AM, said:

No question there will be a disparity. I see that as a good thing. It makes a player think a little about their choices. Do I want to play the long range game or short? I like the extra risk/reward associated with the randomness.

That's fair, but an unlucky player might drop short range on a long-range map many times in a row and get annihilated. Similarly said player might then drop long-range on a small map and get cover-flanked to death repeatedly.

This is a hypothetical worst-case, yes, but also not fun at all for the player involved.

[Scrawny Cowboy]

Maybe we'll begin to see more XL engine assaults now because of the need to increase the variety of loadouts.

[Viper69]

Think you all were trolled. Pull the hooks out he (op)went back under his bridge.