152 replies to this topic

[Lubalin]

I coincidentally posted the exact opposite to the OP in a separate thread:
http://mwomercs.com/...t-ecm-join-ecm/

Summary: nothing I tried on a light mech could effectively counter ecm on another fast/light mech. Not even ecm itself.

[8RoundsRapid]

This thread has given me yet another great balancing idea: how to fix LBX's. Combine them with this:

http://www.sarna.net..._Gauss_Rifle_40

and lets throw in the ability to disable all enemy double heat sinks within 387 meters of the carrying mech, and all single heat sinks outside of 412 meters. All heat sinks function normally between 387 and 418 meters, just to make sure its balanced.

[DocBach]

8RoundsRapid, on 20 February 2013 - 01:26 PM, said:

This thread has given me yet another great balancing idea: how to fix LBX's. Combine them with this:

http://www.sarna.net..._Gauss_Rifle_40

and lets throw in the ability to disable all enemy double heat sinks within 387 meters of the carrying mech, and all single heat sinks outside of 412 meters. All heat sinks function normally between 387 and 418 meters, just to make sure its balanced.

Sounds like that's a perfectly sound idea. We can balance it by destroying it, or seeking cover behind a hill. I can't empathize with you plebeians who don't understand those counters.

Edited by DocBach, 20 February 2013 - 01:29 PM.

[Xeanth]

Omni 13, on 20 February 2013 - 11:50 AM, said:

and most of the people saying it's fine are too stupid to avoid LRMs and use cover/use an AMS

I never said that ECM was fine..guess you are too stupid to read.

[Little Nemo]

I saw so many LRMs this morning and last night that I don't want to ever see another complaint about ECM.

[DocBach]

Skinny Pete, on 20 February 2013 - 01:32 PM, said:

I saw so many LRMs this morning and last night that I don't want to ever see another complaint about ECM.

"If your broken thing I don't like is countered by my broken thing you don't like, I have no problem with my broken thing being broken."

[Inertiaman]

Would you accept some complaints about AMS?

Ursh, on 20 February 2013 - 01:02 PM, said:

Half the ECM "counters" are really only counters vs the Atlas DDC. PPCs? Don't make me laugh, any light getting tagged with ppcs consistently enough to keep their ECM locked down is going to die soon, and they're going to die the same death that any similar non-ecm light would die if getting hit with PPCs. That means it's not a real counter.

This was the biggest lols in this weeks patch. "Guys we've countered ECM - simply shoot mechs with PPCs every four seconds". You couldn't make it up.

NB - this wouldn't actually be that bad a thing if mwo PPC had splash and AOE 25 meters around the projectile. But it has neither.

Edited by Inertiaman, 20 February 2013 - 01:38 PM.

[Tatula]

Enig, on 20 February 2013 - 10:58 AM, said:

ECM's counters:

• Other ECM
  
• PPC (which also pump out plenty of damage at long range)
  
• Tag (which also functions to expedite missile locks)
  
• Component destruction
  
• Communication (We need built-in VOIP for this to truly be effective)
  
• BAP and Sensor Range to a limited extent

And they have stated here on the forums and on the NGNG podcast that they will continue to integrate systems which will interact and work as counters to ECM and other future electronic warfare packages.


So next time you spout that ECM is too cheap for 1.5 tons, just remember that every counter isn't there JUST to counter ECM, they just so happen to do that as an extra effect.

"ECM is fine" - IF IT IS AVAILABLE ON EVERY MECH! I enjoy piloting different mechs, but right now I am limited to only a few choices if I want to have the protection ECM gives. That's my biggest complaint.

[Little Nemo]

Aloha, on 20 February 2013 - 01:43 PM, said:

"ECM is fine" - IF IT IS AVAILABLE ON EVERY MECH! I enjoy piloting different mechs, but right now I am limited to only a few choices if I want to have the protection ECM gives. That's my biggest complaint.

All mechs aren't created equal. You're gonna cry rivers when clan tech is released.

[Kyone Akashi]

"ECM is fine", says OP as he pilots his Streak-boating 2D across the map.

The best thing is how, in that other thread, you think that other ECM-Mechs not switching between disrupt and counter gives you an unfair advantage - yet here you have the gall to claim that the fight is totally fair for 'Mechs that cannot even equip this device?

... yeah, I'm just gonna let this stand in the room there for a minute.

If ECM were fine, the devs would not be so scared of it that they feel a need to restrict it to a few chosen chassis. The way it works now, it monopolizes an entire weapon system - one that is arguably the best instrument to kill off other Lights.

At least unlock it for everyone so that it just becomes a mandatory item rather than a balance-breaker.

Better yet, let ECM work the way it does in the setting, and fix SSRM turn radii.

Edited by Kyone Akashi, 20 February 2013 - 01:49 PM.

[Little Nemo]

Kyone Akashi, on 20 February 2013 - 01:45 PM, said:

"ECM is fine", says OP as he pilots his Streak-boating 2D across the map.

If ECM were fine, the devs would not be so scared of it that they feel a need to restrict it to a few chosen chassis. The way it works now, it monopolizes an entire weapon system - one that is arguably the best instrument to kill off other Lights.

At least unlock it for everyone so that it just becomes a mandatory item rather than a balance-breaker.

Better yet, let ECM work the way it does in the setting, and fix SSRM turn radii.

So, you don't like aiming. Throw a 2D against me than any medium, heavy or assault, any day.

[zverofaust]

[Thuzel]

ECM would be fine... If it took a heck of a lot more than 1.5 tons or needed modules to open up AOE and full stealth capabilities.

[Kyone Akashi]

Skinny Pete, on 20 February 2013 - 01:47 PM, said:

So, you don't like aiming. Throw a 2D against me than any medium, heavy or assault, any day.

I aim just fine, given my success rate against any other Light. Or Medium, or Heavy, or Assault.

Yet I'm not that demented as to not realize that a weapon with a 100% to-hit chance is not the best thing against other fast-moving Lights. It's why I used to employ a Streak-launcher myself, and obviously it is what makes all those 2Ds and 3Ls so successful. Or do you think that's coincidence?

Auto-hit is always superior to manual aim, even if your accuracy is thrown off solely by latency. Not to mention that even the best aiming skill in the world won't allow your lasers to magically hit the 'Mech behind you...

Edited by Kyone Akashi, 20 February 2013 - 01:55 PM.

[Little Nemo]

Thuzel, on 20 February 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:

ECM would be fine... If it took a heck of a lot more than 1.5 tons or needed modules to open up AOE and full stealth capabilities.

Why, what's it stopping you from doing? Firing the two most noob friendly weapons in the game? Wait, you can counter it, tag it and PPC it.

Kyone Akashi, on 20 February 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

I aim just fine, given my success rate against any other Light. Or Medium, or Heavy, or Assault.

Yet I'm not that demented as to not realize that a weapon with a 100% to-hit chance is not the best thing against other fast-moving Lights. It's why I used to employ a Streak-launcher myself, and obviously it is what makes all those 2Ds and 3Ls so successful. Or do you think that's coincidence?

Auto-hit is always superior to manual aim, even if your accuracy is thrown off solely by latency. Not to mention that even the best aiming skill in the world won't allow your lasers to magically hit the 'Mech behind you...

"Auto hit" is OP. Nerf it. In fact, I'll make a thead on that and begin my crusade.

[Ave Hax]

Im not going over ths again ECM is Redicouls still god on the battle field period.
wake up and look please matter a fact i would love to see the numbers on ecm and stacked ecm wins vs non
i dont care how many run it i care how many abuse it because thats what is being allowed
if it becomes again teams on teams it is the teams problem but ecm stacked on pugs lol
where is elo again??

[Lyrik]

Ecm is fine enough for me. As a pugger who pilots Jenner , Hunch and K2/C4.

Yes, it is a gamechanger. You have to adapt. I like that.

Buff BAP to be more useful against ECM. So that it works like the modules.
And change ECM so that it needs 3 critslots. With such a change lights can't hide it in the center and it will be easyier to crit it :-)

[Dreepa]

FupDup, on 20 February 2013 - 11:15 AM, said:

Something to be cautious of is that game forums have a built-in bias to them. People using the forums are:
1. Have been playing longer (thus more experienced and skilled most of the time, and have had more time to adjust to certain obstacles)
2. More likely to have put money into the game (related to #1)
3. Most players in any game don't ever use the forums


If the devs did an in-game survey that all players had access to, then we might get different results. Maybe the proportion of people seeking a ECM adjustments would be lower. Maybe it would be higher. Heck, maybe it might even be the exact same by some feat of magic.

I am perfectly fine with this, I did several surveys in games myself and I know the factors on metrics. We had ~19.000 participants in a survey and the results weren't really contrary to what I had already known before by talking to players and reading the forums.

For a game that tries to cater to the MWO franchise, the poll is still very valuable. The fans of Battletech are sitting in this forum, fans that founded the game, fans that sticked with it in the hard times. They are the core audience. Of course they have a strong opinion, but its also them that make fan pages, spread the info on the game, attract new players and generally keep the game active.
If we were talking about a full polished AAA title that is made for a broad market (Call Of Duty, etc.) it d be a different story.

Yet, even with taking your concerns into account, an assumed dissatisfaction rate of 50% of the forum users would probably not change to any negligable values when doing an ingame survey. with all those newcomers, most would probably not even have the game play experience from the times before the ECM feature to make a statement.

[Thuzel]

Skinny Pete, on 20 February 2013 - 01:55 PM, said:

Why, what's it stopping you from doing? Firing the two most noob friendly weapons in the game? Wait, you can counter it, tag it and PPC it.

I'm not saying the effects of ECM are a problem, I'm saying it's extremely unbalanced.

ECM is way way way too powerful for it's weight. I've said it before and I'll keep saying it, look at AMS for a base level of weight vs functionality.

AMS is 1.5 tons, has only maybe 20% of the functionality of ECM, and was at least in the ballpark of being balanced. Taking that equipment and adding stealth and AOE (among other things) to it makes it a problem in it's current iteration.

I have no problem with ECM being in the game, but it's obscenely overpowered for its cost.

[Commander Kobold]

Xeanth, on 20 February 2013 - 01:30 PM, said:

I never said that ECM was fine..guess you are too stupid to read.

and I never targeted you specifically, nice use of assumptions.

I know lets make AMS shoot down all missles fired at you and removed the ammo requirement.