76 replies to this topic

[Kyone Akashi]

Velba, on 22 February 2013 - 01:19 PM, said:

But because it cannot compete in a 1v1 with 3L does not make it impossible to beat a 3L. You've got to play smart, Use your teammates to help attack the 3L, never try to go 1v1 with it.

I agree absolutely. Yet you have to admit that the mere risk of a 3L being present is a gamechanger. I can't afford to go ahead and scout anymore if I don't have ECM, which means your speed is useless within the first few minutes of the game. And this is not even because ECM can hide you from sensors (which would be fitting for recon), but rather that ECM has monopolized the single-best weapon to use against Lights (rendering ECM-'Mechs the best Light-hunters).

And then, if the enemy team actually does have a 3L, all you can do is stay back and hope that he won't notice you. You have to hope that he attacks your teammates first. This does not only feel a bit selfish, it's also naive, given that (provided you are the only Light on your team) you are the Raven pilot's easiest kill, and he knows it.
It's standard tactic for me and only engage 3L's when they're already busy, but I become priority target with frightening regularity whenever I do that.

Am I supposed to just ignore 3L's entirely and hope my team can kill them? Because that's the only alternative that springs to mind.

Velba, on 22 February 2013 - 01:19 PM, said:

It's not about making all mechs equal, it's about knowing how to use your mechs that you do have to the greatest effect.

I don't think anybody wants to make "all 'Mechs equal", but there is a big difference between "equal", "advantaged" and "dominating".

The 3L can do everything I do better. Are we really supposed to accept that the 3L is the penultimate Light 'Mech and everyone else should just stop to play other models from this weight category in the spirit of "preventing equality"?

I don't think you mean this, but it's the ultimate result of your statement compared to what happens right now in the game.

Velba, on 22 February 2013 - 02:01 PM, said:

You have to know what your mech can and cannot do. If your light does not have ECM, and your are not incredibly skilled. Your probably not going to be able to beat a 3L in a 1v1, just the nature of the beast.

You are insinuating that skill can affect the outcome of such a fight. This conflicts with your earlier statement:

Velba, on 22 February 2013 - 01:19 PM, said:

In closed beta my K/D was 14.00 with my Jenner only. Then ECM happened, and well. Jenner cannot compete in a 1v1.

Lo and behold. Apparently, even a "skilled" player doesn't stand much of a chance.

Edited by Kyone Akashi, 22 February 2013 - 02:54 PM.

[Lubalin]

Velba, on 22 February 2013 - 02:42 PM, said:

Yes, all the losers will run the easiest build they can, and when proper drop restrictions/limits are put into place, the people who have been cheesing the system will have hell to pay. Again skill does matter, because a higher skilled person will know how to beat ECM.
If you can't shoot a light with ECM, you can't shoot a light. If you can't shoot a light, you need to get better at the game.
If you can't shoot a light with ECM because of the ECM, you need to either make a better build, or use your teammates as ECM counters.

Its not about relying on your teammates, but working WITH them.

You keep asserting that skill doesn't matter, after I've given you skill based resolutions to an ECM problem.

This thread is indeed over. It's been full of you ignoring skill based resolutions and trying to apply a light mech outside of it's role. Then QQing when you get wrecked. Either adapt your tactics or die.

You assert,

1: Defeating ecm requires more skill than using ecm.

2: Mechanics that require you to have more skill than an opponent are balanced.

3: Working with teammates is the counter to every situation.

I assert,

1: Defeating ecm requires more skill than using ecm.

2: Mechanics that require you to have more skill than an opponent are not balanced.

3: Working with teammates cannot counter large imbalance at scale.

[Velba]

Lubalin, on 22 February 2013 - 02:54 PM, said:

You assert,

1: Defeating ecm requires more skill than using ecm.

2: Mechanics that require you to have more skill than an opponent are balanced.

3: Working with teammates is the counter to every situation.

I assert,

1: Defeating ecm requires more skill than using ecm.

2: Mechanics that require you to have more skill than an opponent are not balanced.

3: Working with teammates cannot counter large imbalance at scale.

Point 2: Fair enough. I can see this being debated all day up and down, because it will really come down to what you think is fair.
Point 3: Team work is generally going to best the enemy every time, unless their teamwork is better than yours.

Kyone Akashi, on 22 February 2013 - 02:53 PM, said:

I agree absolutely. Yet you have to admit that the mere risk of a 3L being present is a gamechanger. I can't afford to go ahead and scout anymore if I don't have ECM, which means your speed is useless within the first few minutes of the game. And this is not even because ECM can hide you from sensors (which would be fitting for recon), but rather that ECM has monopolized the single-best weapon to use against Lights (rendering ECM-'Mechs the best Light-hunters).

And then, if the enemy team actually does have a 3L, all you can do is stay back and hope that he won't notice you. You have to hope that he attacks your teammates first. This does not only feel a bit selfish, it's also naive, given that (provided you are the only Light on your team) you are the Raven pilot's easiest kill, and he knows it.
It's standard tactic for me and only engage 3L's when they're already busy, but I become priority target with frightening regularity whenever I do that.

Am I supposed to just ignore 3L's entirely and hope my team can kill them? Because that's the only alternative that springs to mind.

I don't think anybody wants to make "all 'Mechs equal", but there is a big difference between "equal", "advantaged" and "dominating".

The 3L can do everything I do better. Are we really supposed to accept that the 3L is the penultimate Light 'Mech and everyone else should just stop to play other models from this weight category in the spirit of "preventing equality"?

I don't think you mean this, but it's the ultimate result of your statement compared to what happens right now in the game.

You are insinuating that skill can affect the outcome of such a fight. This conflicts with your earlier statement:

Lo and behold. Apparently, even a "skilled" player doesn't stand much of a chance.

Your play style is WAY different from mine. I have however been trained in military tactics and have real world practice in applying tactics in a dynamic real time environment. I see the battle field WAY differently from the common man, I also see lying in wait behind my friendly Atlas, for a chance to attack, as tactical, not selfish!!

There is no reason to take damage when you don't have to.

My whole slant on this is that in a 1v1 the 3L has a great advantage. but as soon as it's 1v2 1v3 1v8, that Raven starts looking awfully yummy deep-fried.

EDIT: Side note, me and a mate running Founders Jenners took down 2 raven 3l's in a match. One at a time. both fights were 1v2, and both ravens died. That is an example of skill based play. 1v1 we both would of eaten the dust.

Edited by Velba, 22 February 2013 - 03:10 PM.

[Stoicblitzer]

Velba, on 22 February 2013 - 02:52 PM, said:

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means

learn 2 play. seriously though. why do have to go out of your way to put people down? This guy made a legit thread which somehow got ignored and "your" all like "nobody cares that your not good enough to beat ECM" while you sit in your tower of judgement judging people. OK you have played 15,000 games with your buddies since closed pre-alpha v0.1, your K/D was 38.12, and your e-peen is bigger than the empire state building. Why do you have to be so mean?

[Velba]

Stoicblitzer, on 22 February 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

learn 2 play. seriously though. why do have to go out of your way to put people down? This guy made a legit thread which somehow got ignored and "your" all like "nobody cares that your not good enough to beat ECM" while you sit in your tower of judgement judging people. OK you have played 15,000 games with your buddies since closed pre-alpha v0.1, your K/D was 38.12, and your e-peen is bigger than the empire state building. Why do you have to be so mean?

Honesty is a son-of-a-Beezwax some times. But sometimes, you just need to hear it.

Call it tough love.

[Monky]

I decided to get a 3L this patch to see if the ppc and health tweaks had any effect (having ran a cicada with ECM previously and being able to glide around at 100 kph with a UAC5 and no one could touch me, I figured a 3L would be a better test case.) Thing is nigh invincible. I have to be playing like a major stooge and try and tank the entire enemy team to have any noticable difficulty. Darting back and forth between enemy lines and my lines seems to create a chaos whirlwind of ECM info and lock jamming that no one can overcome.

[Kyone Akashi]

Velba, on 22 February 2013 - 03:05 PM, said:

I see the battle field WAY differently from the common man, I also see lying in wait behind my friendly Atlas, for a chance to attack, as tactical, not selfish!!

That was referring to the "hope" of the shots hitting your friends rather than yourself, not to the use of any sort of cover for a surprise attack. I did the latter since CB, as I see surprise attacks being integral to playing Lights as skirmishers.

Velba, on 22 February 2013 - 03:05 PM, said:

My whole slant on this is that in a 1v1 the 3L has a great advantage. but as soon as it's 1v2 1v3 1v8, that Raven starts looking awfully yummy deep-fried.

And when it's 2 Ravens? 3? 4? And yes, I have seen that many in a match.

Also, it should be understandable that it is rather frustrating that you're still the first one biting the dust even in your hypothetical 1v2, 1v3 or 1v8 - simply because the average Light does not last very long against an ongoing barrage of missile attacks with 100% to-hit chance, and your teammates will miss most of their shots even when they bother to help you. Which they often don't, mostly because they are already busy with another enemy.

I'll also have you know that my playstyle, if indeed it is so different as you assume, has helped me a great deal in the past against anything but the 3L Nemesis. It's not even ECM that is being criticized here. Or the 3L as-is. It's that the current functionality of ECM monopolizes an entire weapon system which is currently somewhat broken - which even the devs have admitted in a Command Chair post.

And between the two of us, you're not been the only one who was in the military. I have to say, that attempt just now to gain a superior position in a debate was rather poor, not only because neither of us can verify what the other says, but also because BattleTech, and MWO in particular, has little to do with advanced real world military tactics.

[Taemien]

Stoicblitzer, on 22 February 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

learn 2 play. seriously though. why do have to go out of your way to put people down? This guy made a legit thread which somehow got ignored and "your" all like "nobody cares that your not good enough to beat ECM" while you sit in your tower of judgement judging people. OK you have played 15,000 games with your buddies since closed pre-alpha v0.1, your K/D was 38.12, and your e-peen is bigger than the empire state building. Why do you have to be so mean?

He's not being mean. Being mean would be calling the OP and worthless pile of crap and move on. But he actually gave constructive advice and solutions.

However telling someone these days that they need to practice and get better to solve a problem is considered 'bullying' instead of motivation. That in lies the problem.

Players are more apt to complain on a forum to developers who ignore the thread, then actually simply get better. I guarantee that if everyone simply got better at shooting light mechs. The raven would largely disappear. Light mechs are fragile and can easily go down in a few shots. But most players panic when getting circled by one. They don't back up, remember to twist their torso to spread out damage, or call for help (sometimes your 45kph Stalker just cannot shake the damn things).

The issues that I am seeing brought up are all 1v1 light vs light mech duels. You can't ask a developer to balance the game around dueling when it is a team based game. In addition if you KNOW you are not great at the game, don't get yourself into a dueling situation. The moment you see signal loss, get the heck out of dodge. You've been detected and your mission of scouting has failed and now you need to pull back. Veterans can simply slug it out with the raven if they know the raven is alone and they are confident in their skill. But I'm seeing most here aren't vets.

Kyone Akashi, on 22 February 2013 - 03:18 PM, said:

That was referring to the "hope" of the shots hitting your friends rather than yourself, not to the use of any sort of cover for a surprise attack. I did the latter since CB, as I see surprise attacks being integral to playing Lights as skirmishers.

And when it's 2 Ravens? 3? 4? And yes, I have seen that many in a match.

Also, it should be understandable that it is rather frustrating that you're still the first one biting the dust even in your hypothetical 1v2, 1v3 or 1v8 - simply because the average Light does not last very long against an ongoing barrage of missile attacks with 100% to-hit chance, and your teammates will miss most of their shots even when they bother to help you. Which they often don't, mostly because they are already busy with another enemy.

I'll also have you know that my playstyle, if indeed it is so different as you assume, has helped me a great deal in the past against anything but the 3L Nemesis. It's not even ECM that is being criticized here. Or the 3L as-is. It's that the current functionality of ECM monopolizes an entire weapon system which is currently somewhat broken - which even the devs have admitted in a Command Chair post.

And between the two of us, you're not been the only one who was in the military. I have to say, that attempt just now to gain a superior position in a debate was rather poor, not only because neither of us can verify what the other says, but also because BattleTech, and MWO in particular, has little to do with advanced real world military tactics.

Just because the majority of players can't hit the broad side of a barn doesn't mean the developers should balance a game around that fact. Eventually their aim will improve and any arbitrary changes made to help them will need to be undone and even then it would only spread the gap further between cadets and vets.

And if the Devs have said something about the functionality in the command chair, then changes will be coming. There's no point to doing anything about it except for waiting to see what changes are coming. But what can be done is finding ways to mitigate what the ECM can do yourself. Getting better is NEVER a bad thing. In the future if ECM isn't doing what it is doing to you now, you will only be better for it and cleaning house.

When you hit a wall, don't stop and stare or shout at it. Find a way over it or through it. That is one thing they -Do- teach you in the military.

[Kyone Akashi]

Taemien, on 22 February 2013 - 03:44 PM, said:

Just because the majority of players can't hit the broad side of a barn doesn't mean the developers should balance a game around that fact.

But the lower accuracy of larger 'Mechs vs Lights (torso turn speed etc) is one aspect of balancing. It's WAI. Lights not being hit as easy due to their speed and size is what makes them viable against heavier machines in the first place.

Of course this advantage gets lost as soon as someone brings homing missiles. Which for some reason only that someone can use. And that someone benefits from the same difficulty to be hit with non-homing weapons. See where I'm going with this?

Taemien, on 22 February 2013 - 03:44 PM, said:

And if the Devs have said something about the functionality in the command chair, then changes will be coming. There's no point to doing anything about it except for waiting to see what changes are coming.

I would hope so, but we've been waiting for an update on the last post there since the end of November. People are growing more impatient every day they get roflpwned by one or more 3L's. It just doesn't even feel as if you'd have a chance in a 1v1, or even a chance of escaping from such a fight, and I strongly believe that this is a feeling you should never have in any 'Mech against any other.

Also, that post was referring to Streaks, not to ECM - just in case you misunderstood me there. I have no problem with ECM whatsoever, as long as my opponent doesn't combine it with SSRMs and drives a Light.
ECM - as is - would be fine. Streak Missiles - as they are - would be fine (still overpowered yet at least usable by everyone). But throw the two together and stuff breaks.

Taemien, on 22 February 2013 - 03:44 PM, said:

But what can be done is finding ways to mitigate what the ECM can do yourself. Getting better is NEVER a bad thing. In the future if ECM isn't doing what it is doing to you now, you will only be better for it and cleaning house.

Apart from avoiding fights with 3Ls entirely, the only thing I can do is changing my own SSRM launcher for SRM4, which I did weeks ago. Obviously, it's still not as effective or dangerous a weapon as Streaks, by the simple fact that you need to have the enemy in front of you to launch them.

Taemien, on 22 February 2013 - 03:44 PM, said:

When you hit a wall, don't stop and stare or shout at it. Find a way over it or through it. That is one thing they -Do- teach you in the military.

So basically I should do it like Velba and just stop playing a Jenner?

Yeah, we're gonna have to disagree on that being a viable solution. Ideally, I want all 'Mechs in MWO to be play- and enjoyable in some role, even when the enemy team includes one or more 3L's.

[Ialti]

Velba, on 22 February 2013 - 03:05 PM, said:

There is no reason to take damage when you don't have to.

My whole slant on this is that in a 1v1 the 3L has a great advantage. but as soon as it's 1v2 1v3 1v8, that Raven starts looking awfully yummy deep-fried.

EDIT: Side note, me and a mate running Founders Jenners took down 2 raven 3l's in a match. One at a time. both fights were 1v2, and both ravens died. That is an example of skill based play. 1v1 we both would of eaten the dust.

Yeah, but you're playing with a working attitude. Most folks here want to play like they're heroes. That is the problem, I think. The game's designed around simulation, and it's far more probable that a coordinated team will will in simulation than a single, skilled player. But players want essentially to be the single, skilled combatant that carries the team. Most of the time when PUGging the first thought is 'how many kills can I get,' or 'how well can I do,' and it's hardly ever 'how can my team win?'

@Kyone Akashi: Your mind is made up, you will invariably keep justifying your position, regardless of the counter-arguments presented by the other side of this argument.

@ The guy who said he wanted the ECM to go to everyone: No.

[Taemien]

Kyone Akashi, on 22 February 2013 - 04:44 PM, said:

So basically I should do it like Velba and just stop playing a Jenner?

Yeah, we're gonna have to disagree on that being a viable solution. Ideally, I want all 'Mechs in MWO to be play- and enjoyable in some role, even when the enemy team includes one or more 3L's.

Throw some pulse lasers on that Jenner, enough DHS to use them for a good number of blasts and enough speed to keep up with the raven. No reason to cease using Jenners. I haven't stopped using mine.

[herosson]

I like this topic it shows the reality of this game and that is that it sucks to the bone.

Its too granular to live with the crap game modes they give. I mean really, capture the flag and capture the flag assault, welcome to the twentieth century.

I love the "I want team death match" loozerz ................come on make something better something more clever. Seriously.

You can do better, I guess.

[Deamhan]

I gave the Raven 3L a go. Got it up to master unlocked. I easily get an avg of 2-3 kills, 450+dmg and take one of the top three spots over all, not just on the team but over all.

However, going back to my C1 I've noticed two things..

1. It feels so slow now.
2. I took a 1 kill and 200 dmg drop from before.

Maybe I need to practice the C1 again and get used to it since there is a pretty big difference between the two but with the raven so laughably easy to use, I can't help but think that my using it is really ruining my play. The ECM and all that it provides, and it doesn't even use up a weapon hard point, is complete OPness. No "if"s, "and"s, or "but"s about it, it is flat out over powered as it is currently implemented in this game.

The change they made to BAP is good.
The EMP of PPCs is good.
TAG should always allow the TAG user to get a lock. Being in the bubble should only prevent team mates from benefiting off your TAG.
NARC upgrade is a joke. It should last until the body part it is on is destroyed or until the mech is destroyed, whichever comes first. If a NARCed target goes into an ally bubble, they can still be targeted and locked but if the mech that is NARCed is the ECM mech, the ECM counters it.

Why should TAG and NARC get this? Because they take up a weapon hard point and in the case of NARC it is also ammo limited. ECM modules get their own dedicated hard point, don't cause the mech it is on to runner hotter, is small and light weight.

[Velba]

Kyone Akashi, on 22 February 2013 - 03:18 PM, said:

That was referring to the "hope" of the shots hitting your friends rather than yourself, not to the use of any sort of cover for a surprise attack. I did the latter since CB, as I see surprise attacks being integral to playing Lights as skirmishers.

And when it's 2 Ravens? 3? 4? And yes, I have seen that many in a match.

Also, it should be understandable that it is rather frustrating that you're still the first one biting the dust even in your hypothetical 1v2, 1v3 or 1v8 - simply because the average Light does not last very long against an ongoing barrage of missile attacks with 100% to-hit chance, and your teammates will miss most of their shots even when they bother to help you. Which they often don't, mostly because they are already busy with another enemy.

I'll also have you know that my playstyle, if indeed it is so different as you assume, has helped me a great deal in the past against anything but the 3L Nemesis. It's not even ECM that is being criticized here. Or the 3L as-is. It's that the current functionality of ECM monopolizes an entire weapon system which is currently somewhat broken - which even the devs have admitted in a Command Chair post.

And between the two of us, you're not been the only one who was in the military. I have to say, that attempt just now to gain a superior position in a debate was rather poor, not only because neither of us can verify what the other says, but also because BattleTech, and MWO in particular, has little to do with advanced real world military tactics.

So just because this is a video game, tactics become void? Incorrect. Tactics, especially real world are always valid when facing human opposition.

I've brought up the military not to "gain superior position" in an argument, but to quickly establish how I operate and think. It is easier to just say, "I've done stuff in the military" then to break down the concepts of sectors of fire, avenues of approach, danger areas, reactions to contact (or SOP's), Superiority of fire, and terrain, Types of ambushes, types of flanking maneuvers, fire and movement, among other things.

What happens when there are 3 or 4 or 6 3L's? Like I said before, it's tough luck, grit your teeth, and hope they get the matchmaker working, because when they do, you shouldn't see things like that.

You've also asserted that your teammates wont be able to hit the mech very much if at all. Well if that is the case, even if they enemy had NO ECM your still going to lose that fight.

[Zerstorer Stallin]

Velba, on 22 February 2013 - 01:05 PM, said:

You caught me my ping sits around 70-90 average is 79.

I run all classes of mech, but majority I run Cents. I love my Wang, and my Muromets is alright. Just bought the Treb's those are great.

My builds generally focus around SRM's and ML's. My Wang runs an AC/20 and my Muromets runs 3xUAC/5s. I do have a 2xERPPC 2xPPC Stalker .

Raven's are actually one of the easier ECM mechs to take down due to their low speed IMO.

Working as a unit always leads to dead ECM mechs as I stompy stomp.

So your boating crap that is also a major concern for most players, and talking crap about slow ravens (which is a bad raven btw) and so ecm is not a problem?!? Just wow.....

Edited by Zerstorer Stallin, 22 February 2013 - 08:34 PM.

[Zerstorer Stallin]

Honestly I loved to see stats on damage done by weapon type. I'd be willing to bet SSR2's make up 90% of the damage 3L's are doing. Its the best weapon in the game, and they can carry the only counter to it. How is this not just dumb?

[MischiefSC]

ECM is a huge advantage on any mech you put it on. It can more or less make or break a team depending on its loadout or the other sides loadout.

ECM/missile balance is broken. PPC and other little conditional 'counters' to it are pointless. It's a huge impact on pugs but largely irrelevant to teams with VOIP and thus works as a very one sided force multiplier. It is a raised middle finger directly in the face of everyone who pugs and leads to a lot of bitter feelings and dissatisfaction. Team ninja stealth bubble is no good.

Don't make missiles 'boat or ignore' and don't make ECM 'has it or you are screwed'. Quit making ECM an unenjoyable aspect to the game that people have to just deal with or work around to have fun in the game in spite of.

Saying that teamwork is a solution is the most ridiculous, disingenuous argument anyone could ever make. Teamwork is a solution to any problem. That's like saying the solution to having an Atlas charging down on your crippled, 1 legged Centurion with only 2 MLs is 'Well, shoot the Atlas in the cockpit 4 times, then you'll kill him'. Oh, okay. That's brilliant! I can't believe anyone ever got beaten by an Atlas now that I've heard that magnificent kernel of wisdom!

ECM is broken. It makes the game less enjoyable for the majority of players. Little tweaks to sensor range, PPCs and the like are irrelevant to the core problem.

Please fix it. Please.

[JudgeDeathCZ]

silentD11, on 22 February 2013 - 01:44 PM, said:

It's more that people seem to want auto locking, auto hitting stuff to work all the time in all cases no matter what. Which is rather comedic and speaks a lot about them.

That is what Raven-3L and Commando-2D pilots have all the time .

[Doc Holliday]

Lubalin, on 20 February 2013 - 12:57 PM, said:

Since the patch, I've been experimenting with ways to counter ecm, specifically on fast/light mechs. I solo drop exclusively. Here's what I tried:

-----

Jenner jr7-d
1x er ppc
2x ssrm2
TAG
1st tier sensor module
(I have an xl300, full elite tier, upgrades, etc.)

I have really struggled to hit fast mechs with the ppc in order to disable the ecm. I am used to leading, such as with ballistic weapons. When I do manage a hit, I struggle to get a lock before the 4 seconds are up so I can fire my ssrms. All the while, I'm taking ssrm hits from the enemy. Maintaining contact with TAG is literally impossible unless we're both standing still.

However, I destroy ddc ecm atlases in this thing. So it does counter that fairly well, but really anyone who brings a ppc can hit an atlas. My main frustration lies with light/fast ecm mechs. I got shot down by their ssrms in my jenners so many times pre-patch it was insane. So I wanted to try running a counter on the same mech.

It works, but really only if the mech is slower than me and/or the enemy pilot makes a mistake. Most 3L's have upgraded engines too and can match my 150kph.

So I'm deeming this tactic as not enough. I still get ripped apart fast if I can't hit with the ppc.

-----

Then, I thought, if you can't beat em, join em. So I built the cheesiest build I could think of: a commando w/ ecm and ssrm. It was cheaper than a raven, too, for the sake of testing.

Commando com-2d
ecm
3x ssrm2
beagle active probe
1st tier sensor module
xl210, no mech trees unlocked

I am able to effectively destroy enemy light ecm mechs in 1v1. It's so easy. It shouldn't be this easy. Really. Oh, and I take down light non-ecm mechs even faster. Other mechs are fairly easy to harass too.

So, I decided to only run this mech with ecm in counter mode so I'm not becoming what I hate. Last thing I want to do is grief other jenner pilots.

But the thing is, usually when I encounter a light ecm mech, there are 2-3 at once. So my counter effectively does nothing, and I get focus fired because I'm obviously gunning for them. It ends badly.

So I'm deeming this tactic insufficient too. ECM is not a sufficient counter to ECM. Basically, if you're worried about ECM, you have to run it on multiple mechs at once. This is not really possible as a PUGer. For PUGers, ecm invalidates most builds on light mechs.

-----

So that's it. I burned about 5M cBills to learn there's no realistically consistent way to counter ecm on a light mech at an average skill level.

And just in advance, L2P and join a premade replies are silly. This game encourages multiple play styles, so balance should apply to all of them.

Cheers,
Lubalin

P.s. Sorry to those I've been rude to in game, namely premades and ecm light pilots. Not my proudest moments.

I tried that, and immediately felt dirty at how easy it was to deal lots of damage and get kills with cheese ECM builds. (Both my commando and cicada notched 600+ dmg and multiple kills first time out.) I didn't like any part of it, either on the delivering or receiving end. In the end, this is ultimately what caused me to quit until they fix ECM and SSRMs.

[Velba]

Zerstorer Stallin, on 22 February 2013 - 08:34 PM, said:

So your boating crap that is also a major concern for most players, and talking crap about slow ravens (which is a bad raven btw) and so ecm is not a problem?!? Just wow.....

Yes, weapons are a major concern for most people.