148 replies to this topic

[Livewyr]

Where to begin?
<MWOlifestory>
I really liked this game and that the developers listened to player concerns, until December.
I drive (at least one of) every single chassis this game has to offer thus far, running every single role currently viable..and even one that isn't.
</MWOlifestory>

TL;DR at the bottom.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The one true Game-Breaker: ECM (and electronics/missiles by extension)

I've been on both sides of the argument.. the "Wow holy crap this is BS" crowd, then I was on the "It's fine, you can counter it, I do, learn to play" crowd.
And then I finally shifted to the middle, where I looked at actual balance. The pros versus the cons, numerical aspects (weight & tonnage) and meta aspects (requirements from pilot to use)

Once I got to this point, I came up with a rough draft of ideas on how to fix ECM:
http://mwomercs.com/...ter-better-one/
Which, through an actual discussion with other players, was refined (later) to:
http://mwomercs.com/...78#entry2033478
(Obviously nobody wants to read a wall of text..even if it DOES have TL:DR points to skip to.)

I pointed out various flaws in the "pro-ECM" arguments in other threads and continually made suggestions on fixing the electronics/missiles suite that led us to ECM.
(too many threads to find and post links to)

I asked for someone, anyone, to prove me wrong, to prove to me how ECM was balanced, to show me one single con, or reason not to bring ECM to a match.
http://mwomercs.com/...ard-to-balance/

Not ONE single argument for the balance of ECM. Not One.


I posted ideas for ECM-style equipment that effected Ballistics and Lasers..
http://mwomercs.com/...78#entry2032278

Unsurprisingly, nobody bit. (Seems people are okay with something being absolutely broken, as long as it is to their benefit.)

I posted examples, and discussed them. (only one example here)
http://mwomercs.com/...23#entry2027723

I've heard nothing from PGI since their "it's working how we intended, but we're tweaking it"

So, at this point- Until PGI takes some sort of actual public stance towards actually FIXING ECM I'm going to log in, and play games until I see 3 or more ECM mechs on one side.. which will take about 1-4 games. And then I will log off and go play SC2, whether it be Wings of Liberty which I have now, or my Heart of the Swarm which arrives in 2 days. Even blizzard has better balance. I'll do this at least once every day until my Premium time expires (in early april) or until PGI figures it out. I'm through trying to drive sense into thick skulls, and I'm through throwing money and time at a broken game that refuses to be fixed.
------------------------------------------------------------

TL;DR

Me: Made many points as to how broken ECM (and electronics/missiles) is broken, and offered/discussed suggestions to fix it.
Pro-ECM Community: Unable to prove that it isn't broken, or knows that it is broken but likes
PGI: Won't admit it's completely broken, thinks it just needs "tweaks."

I'll play 1-4 games per (gaming) day to get use of my prem time before it runs out, or until PGI fixes this stupidity. (I'll even take a committal announcement that they're actually looking into it.)

One last thing: If you think ECM is balanced, you're an imbecile. If you know ECM is broken but like it because it protects you from missiles, you haven't the first clue about game balance, which will make (or break) a game. If you agree with me, you can do what you want, I don't care.

I'm done trying.

[Tie Ma]

its k i've pretty much written MWO off.

they said it was working as intended because some poeple liked it and some people didn't. but theres ahuge logic hole there.

Most people don't like it and a few people do.

I think what theyre going for was more of a some people like to bring it and some people don't want to bring it. but really right now its everybody wants to bring it. nobody likes it, but everyone has to use it.

but it shouldn't come as a big suprise. there have been many cases showing you why PGI can't make good development decisions.

Edited by Tie Ma, 12 March 2013 - 05:46 AM.

[NitroDev]

Many whelps, left side, HANDLE IT!

[Agent of Change]

It's a shame you feel this way Livewyr.

I share most of your frustration, agree with your positions on ECM and have found your suggestions to be good ones.

I do hope PGI does get around to fixing what is IMO the single most glaring game play balance issue.

[VEightFreak427]

I hate how much ECM is the center of the game. Matches are sometimes based on who is going to win by who has the most ECM. It is a fact that you will have a much greater chance of winning when you have more ECM then the other team does. I don't think that's right. But I still have fun you know? Still my fire is starting to burn out.....

[xhrit]

ECM needs a few tweeks.

PGI is looking into it.

[Mechteric]

its coming

http://mwomercs.com/...-matter-of-ecm/

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 12 March 2013 - 05:48 AM.

[Moriquendi86]

Tie Ma, on 12 March 2013 - 05:40 AM, said:

Most people don't like it and a few people do.

Any numbers to back this claim? And I mean real numbers not just amount of complain threads on forum.

[Mongoose Trueborn]

OMG the developers didn't listen to you! Shame on them, don't they know that you speak for the universe?

You quitting will probably cause them many a sleepless nights I'm sure. I would do it if i were you.

[Joe Mallad]

NitroDev, on 12 March 2013 - 05:45 AM, said:

Many whelps, left side, HANDLE IT!

he is handling it, he's going to try other games until this game is fixed. Or he finds another game that is better than this one. But at his point, there are many games a lot better than this one. So I don't blame him for stepping away from time to time.

Edited by Yoseful Mallad, 12 March 2013 - 05:51 AM.

[GetinmyBellah]

I used to play daily and now I'm surprised if I launch MW:O more than once a week.

[Z0MBIE Y0SHI]

[Sifright]

Livewyr, on 12 March 2013 - 05:38 AM, said:

Where to begin?
<MWOlifestory>
I really liked this game and that the developers listened to player concerns, until December.
I drive (at least one of) every single chassis this game has to offer thus far, running every single role currently viable..and even one that isn't.
</MWOlifestory>

TL;DR at the bottom.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The one true Game-Breaker: ECM (and electronics/missiles by extension)

I've been on both sides of the argument.. the "Wow holy crap this is BS" crowd, then I was on the "It's fine, you can counter it, I do, learn to play" crowd.
And then I finally shifted to the middle, where I looked at actual balance. The pros versus the cons, numerical aspects (weight & tonnage) and meta aspects (requirements from pilot to use)

Once I got to this point, I came up with a rough draft of ideas on how to fix ECM:
http://mwomercs.com/...ter-better-one/
Which, through an actual discussion with other players, was refined (later) to:
http://mwomercs.com/...78#entry2033478
(Obviously nobody wants to read a wall of text..even if it DOES have TL:DR points to skip to.)

I pointed out various flaws in the "pro-ECM" arguments in other threads and continually made suggestions on fixing the electronics/missiles suite that led us to ECM.
(too many threads to find and post links to)

I asked for someone, anyone, to prove me wrong, to prove to me how ECM was balanced, to show me one single con, or reason not to bring ECM to a match.
http://mwomercs.com/...ard-to-balance/

Not ONE single argument for the balance of ECM. Not One.


I posted ideas for ECM-style equipment that effected Ballistics and Lasers..
http://mwomercs.com/...78#entry2032278

Unsurprisingly, nobody bit. (Seems people are okay with something being absolutely broken, as long as it is to their benefit.)

I posted examples, and discussed them. (only one example here)
http://mwomercs.com/...23#entry2027723

I've heard nothing from PGI since their "it's working how we intended, but we're tweaking it"

So, at this point- Until PGI takes some sort of actual public stance towards actually FIXING ECM I'm going to log in, and play games until I see 3 or more ECM mechs on one side.. which will take about 1-4 games. And then I will log off and go play SC2, whether it be Wings of Liberty which I have now, or my Heart of the Swarm which arrives in 2 days. Even blizzard has better balance. I'll do this at least once every day until my Premium time expires (in early april) or until PGI figures it out. I'm through trying to drive sense into thick skulls, and I'm through throwing money and time at a broken game that refuses to be fixed.
------------------------------------------------------------

TL;DR

Me: Made many points as to how broken ECM (and electronics/missiles) is broken, and offered/discussed suggestions to fix it.
Pro-ECM Community: Unable to prove that it isn't broken, or knows that it is broken but likes
PGI: Won't admit it's completely broken, thinks it just needs "tweaks."

I'll play 1-4 games per (gaming) day to get use of my prem time before it runs out, or until PGI fixes this stupidity. (I'll even take a committal announcement that they're actually looking into it.)

One last thing: If you think ECM is balanced, you're an imbecile. If you know ECM is broken but like it because it protects you from missiles, you haven't the first clue about game balance, which will make (or break) a game. If you agree with me, you can do what you want, I don't care.

I'm done trying.

but lurms are a support weapon they aren't supposed to do damage and thanks to ECM they dont!!1111onneone.

Also MGS ARE ANTI INFANTRY WEAPONS, they shouldn't hurt mechs!!

LBX-10 is great weapon I shootet light mechs with ease and blewed them up and it even critsleekers!

Flamers another bestest weapon I shootit at emama mechs and they go blind and run into ohter robit buttoks

Edited by Sifright, 12 March 2013 - 05:51 AM.

[FiveDigits]

NitroDev, on 12 March 2013 - 05:45 AM, said:

Many whelps, left side, HANDLE IT!

DoTs, throw more DoTs!

[Kifferson von doober]

Do you guys think it'll ever find a balance or is it gonna be tweaked indefinately? cos it seems like this game is never gonna settle to any formula. just wait til the clans hit! But yeah, like any mmo, if your over it give it a rest-come back in a few months and see whats changed.

[Belorion]

http://www.merriam-w...ictionary/whelp

http://mwomercs.com/...and-discussion/

[Tie Ma]

Moriquendi86, on 12 March 2013 - 05:48 AM, said:

Any numbers to back this claim? And I mean real numbers not just amount of complain threads on forum.

You clearly haven't seen many of the polls here.

Livewyr was a person like you. maybe you should take a step back and actually look at ECM. Maybe you'll come to the same conclusion most players have.

Edited by Tie Ma, 12 March 2013 - 05:52 AM.

[Lonestar1771]

I launch the patcher and that's about as close as I get to playing.

[Mr 144]

And what if you think ECM is fine simply because you don't see the outageous benefits that it grants as meaningful. Seriously, I Lurm without issues...I spot targets without issues...I kill or be killed regardless of ECM coverage. None of the many 'broken' things it does affects my game in any meaningful way. The Raven 3L is an entirely different topic of broken, and ECM is only a small factor in the world of 1v1 lights. Stalker's are just as common as D-DCs...spiders suck regarless of ECM...Streakmandos are not OP even with the unholy trinity...and even ECM cannot save the Cicada.....The only problem is the 3L...nd that has very little to do with ECM.

Mr 144

[Sayyid]

I find it funny that there are so many people now getting tired of the game, but not because the gameplay is repatitive or stagnant, but because ECM is modelled wrong and OP.

I agree ECM is all sorts of ate up like a soup sandwitch but I dont let it keep me from playing. I think ECM needs to be inverted, it would actually make it work like the TT rules.