36 replies to this topic

[Cyber Carns]

I bring this up again because its seems non clanners want to pick and choose on what clanners can and cannot do in combat . Now I have posted info on Zellbrigen now for the third time.

Here are the 2 threads:

http://mwomercs.com/...__fromsearch__1

http://mwomercs.com/...er/page__st__80

Now im re-posting what I posted(heh).(with some additions)

Clan vs Clan Zellbrigen will work because both use that form of ritual combat. Now Clan vs IS, Zellbringen will not work because IS does not fight that way. You can say to balance out the fights between Clan and IS is 5 vs 8 or what ever number you use, but as soon as 2 IS Mechs attack one Clan Mech, Zellbringen is over and the Clan group can do team work to take out the inferior and dezgra IS mechwarriors for not following Zellbringen. Zellbringen only works if both side agree to fight that way, Mech vs Mech even numbers, other wise its a moot point. Granted each Clan has its own own interpretation on how to use Zellbrigen. Another thing to consider, Zellbrigen is not used against certain groups because they think of them as Dezgra, ie: Pirates,Mercenaries to name 2.

So how can you try to enforce your rigit interpretation of of a set of rules that is meant to be flexible depending on the situation? You have to take the Zellbrigen rules as a whole or not at all.


Here is the info for how Zellbringen works from: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Zellbrigen

Overview
Zellbrigen is ritualistic form of honor dueling practiced by the Warrior Caste of the Clans.^[1][2]
[edit]History
The practice of engaging opponents in single combat, the genesis of what would later become zellbrigen, was first started byClan Coyote during the Operation Klondike.^[3] Despite the losses incurred by this fighting method, Coyote's Khan Dana Kufahlwould continue to encourage her Clan and others to practice this "honorable" form of warfare. Eventually the practice would be taken up by all of the Clans, to a greater or lesser degree, in part as a way to minimize losses in both lives and resources.^[1][2]This is especially true when opposing commanders agreed to a duel to determine a battle's outcome.
During the Clan Invasion the rules of zellbrigen lapsed, primarily because the Inner Sphere had no concept of Clan cultural norms and, in some cases, exploited them for "underhanded" victories. By the end of the campaign zellbrigen had all but died out in several Clans, while most still reserve it for inter-Clan confrontations or against worthy Inner Sphere warriors.^[1][2]
[edit]Rules
The proscriptions of zellbrigen consist of the following rules:
§ Each warrior will issue a challenge to a different enemy. If one side outnumbers the other, then the extra warriors on that side will stand aside until one of their comrades falls in battle. A warrior can challenge more than one unit at a time.^[4]
§ A warrior has right to refuse challenges from Inner Sphere units, especially if underhanded ploys are suspected.^[4]
§ A warrior has the right to refuse a challenge from an unit of differing weight class if other unengaged units are available.^[4]
§ No artillery or other Area-Effect Weapons shall be employed by either side.^[4]
§ Intentionally moving out of the line of sight of the opponent is prohibited.^[4]
§ Systems that requires multiple units to operate, like C3 and TAG, are forbidden.^[4]
§ Moving out of weapon range is prohibited.^[4]
§ Failure to fire a weapon when possible is prohibited.^[4]
A warrior is also expected to not retreat from inferior foes, or to engage his opponent in melee combat, though these are not part of the formal rules of zellbrigen.^[4] Also, though it plays a central role in Clans' combat challenges, the ritual ofbatchallremains a separate tradition.
[edit]Interpretation
How zellbrigen is interpreted depends not only on the individual, but their parent Clan as a whole. At one end of the spectrum, the rules are strictly followed, the only exception being when fighting bandits, pirates or the most hated of enemies. At the opposite end, zellbrigen is figuratively "thrown out the airlock" and used only against other Clan warriors, and even then only when there is an advantage over them. In between are varying levels of adherence; for example, zellbrigen is followed unless circumstances dictated otherwise, such as being outnumbered or thinking one could get away with breaking it.^[4]
Prior to the Clan Invasion, Clan Blood Spirit, Clan Coyote, Clan Ghost Bear, Clan Goliath Scorpion, Clan Jade Falcon, Clan Star Adder and Clan Steel Viper adhered strictly to the tenants of zellbrigen. Meanwhile Clan Cloud Cobra, Clan Hell's Horses, Clan Ice Hellion, Clan Nova Cat and Clan Snow Raven were more opportunistic in their interpretation. Only Clan Diamond Shark andClan Wolf used a liberal interpretation of zellbrigen in their conflicts with the other Clans.^[4]
After their defeat at the Battle of Tukayyid, many of the Clans began to rethink their use of these honor rules, and a number of political, military and cultural changes took place. The Blood Spirits, Jade Falcons and Star Adders became more opportunistic, while the Ghost Bears became more liberal, in the use of zellbrigen. The schism within Clan Wolf resulted in its new Crusader-minded leadership to become slightly more conservative, while Clan Wolf-in-Exile maintain a flexible definition of zellbrigen.^[4]
Clan Fire Mandrill, by their fractious nature, defy any sort of labeling, with each Kindraa having their own individual understandings of zellbrigen.^[4]
[edit]References[color=#CCCCCC]

1. ↑ ^{1.0 1.1 1.2} Field Manual: Warden Clans, p.17[/color]

[color=#CCCCCC]

2. ↑ ^{2.0 2.1 2.2} Field Manual:Crusader Clans, p.15[/color]

[color=#CCCCCC]

3. ↑ Field Manual: Warden Clans, p. 40[/color]

[color=#CCCCCC]

4. ↑ ^{4.00 4.01 4.02 4.03 4.04 4.05 4.06 4.07 4.08 4.09 4.10 4.11 4.12} Total Warfare, p. 275[/color]

[edit]Bibliography
§ Field Manual: Crusader Clans
§ Field Manual: Warden Clans
§ Total Warfare

Also it seems that Total Warfare does not list Smoke Jaguar so there is not info in the books regarding their use of Zellbrigen, unless someone has a source on that.(I ask Surkai to the members of Smoke Jaguar this may have offend)

Edited by Cyber Carns, 01 June 2012 - 04:51 AM.

[Tremor]

Some clans rarely use Zellbrigen on IS troops in the first place.

Edit: I say leave it up to the players. I would rather see IS vs Clan engagements balanced by allowing IS superior numbers and clans superior firepower.

Edited by Tremor, 01 June 2012 - 06:33 AM.

[Jaroth Corbett]

Good post Cyber. As I stated in another thread, Zellbrigen is conditional. Also challenges may not necessarily be declared. Once within the group of warriors fighting, claims on certain targets have been made. So if a lance has 4 different mechs, clan pilots may simply, amongst themselves, determine who will engage the Orion or the Cyclops etc.

Also while engaged with one target, if another fires on you, it does not mean an immediate all out melee. You are simply allowed to return fire on that target unless it has already been claimed. Of course if teaming up becomes rampant, especially if a challenge has been issued & accepted, you can forego zellbrigen.

Also each opponent shoudl be regarded differently. For example, in Wolves on the Border, when the mercenaries of the Wolf's Dragoons faced off against DC forces, at one point in the battle, Dragoon mech pilots, issued personal challenges to their DC counterparts. Even though they were mercenaries to begin with & even though they were charged with treason by not adhering to their contract & even though IIRC Takashi Kurita had at this time issued his "Death to Mercenaries" edict, the DC pilots accepted the challenges.

Of course as Sun Tzu noted, in war, generals must adapt their tactics to suit their enemy. I remember reading in the Wars of Reaving sourcebook that the Jade Falcons & the Steel Vipers had a heated exchange in the Grand Council regarding this notion. What was surprising was that the Jade Falcons who had always been traditionalists, were the ones arguing for adaptation. I am in work now, when I get home, I will give you that exchange verbatim.

[Cyber Carns]

Jaroth Winson, on 01 June 2012 - 07:09 AM, said:

Good post Cyber. As I stated in another thread, Zellbrigen is conditional. Also challenges may not necessarily be declared. Once within the group of warriors fighting, claims on certain targets have been made. So if a lance has 4 different mechs, clan pilots may simply, amongst themselves, determine who will engage the Orion or the Cyclops etc.

Also while engaged with one target, if another fires on you, it does not mean an immediate all out melee. You are simply allowed to return fire on that target unless it has already been claimed. Of course if teaming up becomes rampant, especially if a challenge has been issued & accepted, you can forego zellbrigen.

Also each opponent shoudl be regarded differently. For example, in Wolves on the Border, when the mercenaries of the Wolf's Dragoons faced off against DC forces, at one point in the battle, Dragoon mech pilots, issued personal challenges to their DC counterparts. Even though they were mercenaries to begin with & even though they were charged with treason by not adhering to their contract & even though IIRC Takashi Kurita had at this time issued his "Death to Mercenaries" edict, the DC pilots accepted the challenges.

Of course as Sun Tzu noted, in war, generals must adapt their tactics to suit their enemy. I remember reading in the Wars of Reaving sourcebook that the Jade Falcons & the Steel Vipers had a heated exchange in the Grand Council regarding this notion. What was surprising was that the Jade Falcons who had always been traditionalists, were the ones arguing for adaptation. I am in work now, when I get home, I will give you that exchange verbatim.

Agreed, good post Jaroth.
My main point in posting this again is that it seems that non Clan players want to limit us Clan players in what we can and cant do. As well they seem to always pick and choose on which part of Zell they want us to follow. 3rd, I am just sick and tired of the vitriol that is always slung our way and always coming to our part of the forums to try to tell us how to play the Clans and constant bashing. I dont think I have ever seen a Clanner go to the IS or Merc part of the forums trying to tell them how they will play the game and what rules they should and should not follow.

If you don't like the Clans stay in your own area and quit griefing us. I don't mind a good discussion and good debates, but the majority of you who don't play the Clans either dont understand or don't care to to learn to understand what makes us clanner play the Clans. Also what alot of them fail to realize that it was a group from the clans that helped the IS out to fight the Clans. These were/are members of Clan Wolf, the Wolf's Dragoons and later The Wolfs in Exile.

[kiyoshi]

So it's been awhile, but I've read a good majority of the Battletech series books, and from what I can remember, you've got zellbrigen fairly well laid out - though some of the additional rules listed definitely feel like they came from a TT handbook as opposed to the actual backstory or something.

Good post, but you've got to keep in mind the most important fact about zellbrigen which you've all brought up - it was circumstantial in many cases. Every clan has violated it at some point in time, and the most strictly adherent to the "Clan" ways was constantly the Jade Falcons, except that it was a strict adherence to the clan ways as they saw them.

With underhanded ploys however, the only that truly comes to mind in regards to zellbrigen would be Kai Allard-Liao challenging Malthus in the great gash, with every intent on exploiting the pentaglycerine trap previously laid to block the Clan troops from flanking. However, the Clans came to respect Kai because of his battle prowess, because he defeated an entire cluster (albeit with rocks and explosives), and later thwarted an entire star of mechs, granting Prince Victor Ian Steiner-Davion escape from ... ****, Alyina?

[Jaroth Corbett]

Indeed. Most of them have not researched the Clans at all or some do to a limited degree & have only partial knowledge which they roll with when making their posts. When I make posts regarding information directly relating to the Clans, once I am home, I do not use any references (forums/sites etc.) other than the source material (sourcebooks, novels etc.) There are people that get annoyed when I bash sarna especially as that is where the new people go to get any information. My only reason is that sarna has been wrong in the past & from my experience I would rather have something credible to work with, so I either take pictures of the source material or paste the words directly. Also some people do not understand that the TT has its own rules which do not translate to the games.

Also, I wonder why the mods have not stepped in to curb this trolling? I can only speak for myself, but once the Clan sections were made I have never gone to the House sections for ANY reason. Why must we suffer these trolls? The devs gave them their own section, why come & bother us?

[Renee Zellbrigen]

One can not explain the motivations of a troll, for they are stupid and inscrutable. One simply kills it with fire, or starves it of its nourishment (in other words, ignoring them entirely.

Curious newcomers are one thing, but asinine idiots seeking argument on the internet are another thing entirely. As stated, we do not bother them in their subfora, so a little mutual respect would be appreciated, but is unlikely to happen.

[OfTheDark]

Woo! A thread with no trolls...yet...

My only thought, with all this discussion, is how much should it factor in to figthing the IS? In my (admittantly limited) understanding when the Clans finally caught on that the IS would simply exploit Zellbrigen it basically went out the window. It may be worth it to have some form of Zell in the game for Clan vs. Clan fights but how much should it be used vs. IS? Esp. with some House Mechwarriors already showing they don't have much respect for it would it be worth it to have some elaborate system in place only to have it be valid in certain fights? If it would only apply in Clan vs. Clan fights would it be better to let the Clans enforce it themselves?

[Damion Wolf]

Jaroth Winson, on 01 June 2012 - 07:09 AM, said:

For example, in Wolves on the Border, when the mercenaries of the Wolf's Dragoons faced off against DC forces, at one point in the battle, Dragoon mech pilots, issued personal challenges to their DC counterparts. Even though they were mercenaries to begin with & even though they were charged with treason by not adhering to their contract & even though IIRC Takashi Kurita had at this time issued his "Death to Mercenaries" edict, the DC pilots accepted the challenges.

I would like to point out a bit of a difference there. The Ryoken were baited by the Wolf Dragoon use of single combat. It stalled them long enough to plant the charges under the ice and served to build them into a frothing-at-the-mouth ferver. Then they lured them into the trap and blew it up under them.

So yeah, there is an instance of Clanners using other people's honor against them. Yay for potetic irony.

[Jaroth Corbett]

True but what I was highlighting is the fact that even though the Dragoons were in a position where they would have been viewed as dishonorable foes, the DC mech pilots accepted their challenges.

[Aaron DeChavilier]

oh boy, its another one of these threads... <eyeroll>

Cyber Carns, on 01 June 2012 - 09:24 AM, said:

My main point in posting this again is that it seems that non Clan players want to limit us Clan players in what we can and cant do. As well they seem to always pick and choose on which part of Zell they want us to follow. 3rd, I am just sick and tired of the vitriol that is always slung our way and always coming to our part of the forums to try to tell us how to play the Clans and constant bashing. I dont think I have ever seen a Clanner go to the IS or Merc part of the forums trying to tell them how they will play the game and what rules they should and should not follow.

actually from what I've seen, none of you have come to a real consensus on how zellbriggen should play out let alone any 'outsiders.' (how dare they!) I love the persecution complex you guys rock, it's adorable. As for the first sentence of your post, I really do fail to see where anyone has dictated rules to anyone else; this subfora has literally been a stream of 'I think's' 'I suppose' 'I suggest' 'The way I see it.' Which is all personal opinion, especially on the topic of implementing zellbriggen. But I guess it doesnt matter what people say, rather just what you think they say.

the main problem with this thread, is its horrendously redundant; everyone is saying what they've said before because this topic is the second most posted topic, the top being how to implement clans overall.

Cyber Carns, on 01 June 2012 - 09:24 AM, said:

If you don't like the Clans stay in your own area and quit griefing us. I don't mind a good discussion and good debates, but the majority of you who don't play the Clans either dont understand or don't care to to learn to understand what makes us clanner play the Clans. Also what alot of them fail to realize that it was a group from the clans that helped the IS out to fight the Clans. These were/are members of Clan Wolf, the Wolf's Dragoons and later The Wolfs in Exile.

who is this 'you' that you're talking at?
As for 'griefing' it's incredible how you label dissenting opinion (because it's all opinion, except when winson blusters around with lore) as griefing. I would rather say, a lot of us here understand why you like to play clan, we...well at least I just don't tolerate the attitude. Most of you seriously act like this is a little treehouse club where you get to dictate who talks and who doesnt, and as soon as someone disagrees with you it's 'griefing' and 'trolling.'

OfTheDark, on 01 June 2012 - 02:06 PM, said:

Woo! A thread with no trolls...yet...

woo! dissenting is trolling now! if you don't agree with the collective then you're abtaka! a foresaken! <eyeroll>

OfTheDark, on 01 June 2012 - 02:06 PM, said:

My only thought, with all this discussion, is how much should it factor in to figthing the IS? In my (admittantly limited) understanding when the Clans finally caught on that the IS would simply exploit Zellbrigen it basically went out the window. It may be worth it to have some form of Zell in the game for Clan vs. Clan fights but how much should it be used vs. IS? Esp. with some House Mechwarriors already showing they don't have much respect for it would it be worth it to have some elaborate system in place only to have it be valid in certain fights? If it would only apply in Clan vs. Clan fights would it be better to let the Clans enforce it themselves?

that is a good question, one I've opined an answer as just do away with zell altogether and just balance the clantech.

Edited by Aaron DeChavilier, 01 June 2012 - 03:19 PM.

[Morgan Kerensky]

Aaron DeChavilier, on 01 June 2012 - 03:19 PM, said:

oh boy, its another one of these threads... <eyeroll>


actually from what I've seen, none of you have come to a real consensus on how zellbriggen should play out let alone any 'outsiders.' (how dare they!) I love the persecution complex you guys rock, it's adorable. As for the first sentence of your post, I really do fail to see where anyone has dictated rules to anyone else; this subfora has literally been a stream of 'I think's' 'I suppose' 'I suggest' 'The way I see it.' Which is all personal opinion, especially on the topic of implementing zellbriggen. But I guess it doesnt matter what people say, rather just what you think they say.

the main problem with this thread, is its horrendously redundant; everyone is saying what they've said before because this topic is the second most posted topic, the top being how to implement clans overall.


who is this 'you' that you're talking at?
As for 'griefing' it's incredible how you label dissenting opinion (because it's all opinion, except when winson blusters around with lore) as griefing. I would rather say, a lot of us here understand why you like to play clan, we...well at least I just don't tolerate the attitude. Most of you seriously act like this is a little treehouse club where you get to dictate who talks and who doesnt, and as soon as someone disagrees with you it's 'griefing' and 'trolling.'



woo! dissenting is trolling now! if you don't agree with the collective then you're abtaka! a foresaken! <eyeroll>


that is a good question, one I've opined an answer as just do away with zell altogether and just balance the clantech.

That's because 90 % of the time you come into the clan forum, you come in with a negative mindset and a chip on your shoulder. Like the clans took your favourite toy and smashed it then laughed while you sat there in despair. Seriously, get rid of the negative attitude and maybe people wouldn't call you a troll every time you come in here.

[Jaroth Corbett]

The "you" is him. He is the one who started a thread "Who are these Clan players".

STAY IN YOUR SECTION! We do not come to yours.

[Vora MacEvedy]

And as happened on Wolves on the Border, at first the Combine warriors did accept duels.

Then they learned better (mostly).

[Aaron DeChavilier]

Morgan Kerensky, on 01 June 2012 - 04:59 PM, said:

That's because 90 % of the time you come into the clan forum, you come in with a negative mindset and a chip on your shoulder. Like the clans took your favourite toy and smashed it then laughed while you sat there in despair. Seriously, get rid of the negative attitude and maybe people wouldn't call you a troll every time you come in here.

So if I drop the wet blanket, you'll stop acting like a little child in his treehouse?
I hardly see that happening, that said, my points still stand:

Aaron DeChavilier, on 01 June 2012 - 03:19 PM, said:

As for the first sentence of your post, I really do fail to see where anyone has dictated rules to anyone else; this subfora has literally been a stream of 'I think's' 'I suppose' 'I suggest' 'The way I see it.' Which is all personal opinion, especially on the topic of implementing zellbriggen. But I guess it doesnt matter what people say, rather just what you think they say.


As for 'griefing' it's incredible how you label dissenting opinion (because it's all opinion, except when winson blusters around with lore) as griefing. I would rather say, a lot of us here understand why you like to play clan, we...well at least I just don't tolerate the attitude. Most of you seriously act like this is a little treehouse club where you get to dictate who talks and who doesnt, and as soon as someone disagrees with you it's 'griefing' and 'trolling.'

Jaroth Winson, on 01 June 2012 - 05:06 PM, said:

The "you" is him. He is the one who started a thread "Who are these Clan players".

STAY IN YOUR SECTION! We do not come to yours.

I love how he puts the ignore on me, but still responds to me; it's hilarious.
He's still sore because he failed to realize that RP-ing in the general discussion of a board was annoying everyone, however he also is still failing to realize; the issue was resolved...EIGHT months ago.
And what he says actually reinforces my point to a T, he sounds like a cultist; "He! He is the one! outsider!"
Then it gets better, he dictates where I should go...rather than me dictating to him, same goes with all here.
And for the record, I don't have a 'section,' and I care not for 'sections,' like all here, I am free to come and go as I please.

[Damion Wolf]

What the Hell?

Aaron, I don't believe we've ever met before. Forgive the observation but you seem to be wanting to pick a fight.

I understand that not everybody will come to a concensus one hundred percent of the time and I respect that you have different views on certain topics. I would ask that, for the sake of civility, if you are dead set on entering into a debate that you remember there are people who will agree and disagree with you.

There is no reason to encourage such hostility between brothers. We, all of us, are CBT fans. That is why we are here. Whatever else we can not see eye-to-eye on, take creedance in the fact that there is one guiding light for us all. Soon we will be settling our disputes in the one place where it really matters; the battlefield. We will finally get our hands on the controls of our own beautiful BattleMechs.

Some people don't like the Clans. Some people don't like the Inner Sphere. Hell, some actually like House Liao, as weird as that sounds. That's fine. That's good, even. Those differences will spawn healthy debate and help keep the world varied and interesting. I do not think it is so much to ask that we respect each other's views, even while we disagree with them.

If you can not be around people who like the Clans and enjoy debating on what-ifs without turning radioactive then maybe you need to find more compatable forum topics.

[Skylarr]

Vora MacEvedy, on 01 June 2012 - 05:15 PM, said:

And as happened on Wolves on the Border, at first the Combine warriors did accept duels.

Then they learned better (mostly).

The DCMS warrior accepted the challenges because most believe they are modern day Samurai.

OfTheDark, on 01 June 2012 - 02:06 PM, said:

Woo! A thread with no trolls...yet...

My only thought, with all this discussion, is how much should it factor in to figthing the IS? In my (admittantly limited) understanding when the Clans finally caught on that the IS would simply exploit Zellbrigen it basically went out the window. It may be worth it to have some form of Zell in the game for Clan vs. Clan fights but how much should it be used vs. IS? Esp. with some House Mechwarriors already showing they don't have much respect for it would it be worth it to have some elaborate system in place only to have it be valid in certain fights? If it would only apply in Clan vs. Clan fights would it be better to let the Clans enforce it themselves?

MW:O is making allot of lost tech available for use on every Mech. In Battletech history, and in the books, IS forces had 3025 tech when fighting against the Clans. So I can see they would use Zellbringing against you.

I hear allot of Clanner say allot of thing about hw better the Clans are. There is not politics in the Clans. The Clans believe in being honest. The Clans love a fair fight.

I like the Clans, I am thinking about joining Ghost Bears. But, I strongly disagree with how they invaded. They sceemed with Comstart to find out intell about every planet they were invading. In exchange for the Intell Comstar would run each world for the Clans.

ComStar then gave the Clans full intell about every unit on every planet. Unit sizes, Quality of Mechwarriors and types of Mechs.

When the Clans invaded a world they would issue a batchall. Not an explination of who they were and their rules of engagement or how they conduct warfare. In the Bachal the Clans did say hw many MEchs were attacking and maybe even gave Mechnames. So, How was this a fair fight?

[Rejarial Galatan]

wonderful read on the zel.

[Kid Weeb]

I am sure the Devs have had many long, detailed discussions on how the Clans traditions of Zellbrigen, their various Trials and other customs will be presented in MWO. What I see as the wild cards are the players themselves. What it all boils down to in the end, is that no one can control your opponent or how they play the game (with or without honor). We can hope that the Devs establish some set of rules or guidelines that need to be followed in order to gain Exp., C-Bills, etc. especially when playing as a Clan MechWarrior. I would like the same rules or guidelines apply to both Inner Sphere and Clan players, but I will not bet my future Mech on it.

On a related subject, let me preface my thoughts with the fact that I have never played any of the MW games other than TT. However, I am an uber-fan of CBT, having read all the novels and a vast majority of the sourcebooks. However, I have been reading up on the Forums. It seems that Clan Tech was freely played in some of the other MW games whether the player was Clan or IS. I see a common idea that anyone can just slap on Clan tech and go to town. This is not actually the case as explained in various novels and sourcebooks. I am hoping the Devs stick to the lore on the usage of Clan tech when it becomes available.

As for myself, I am starting this game in the Federated Suns and will wait to see what it will take/cost to transfer to Clan Wolf. I like the idea of fighting within a certain set of rules and limits and also like the idea of minimizing damage and loss of life to innocent bystanders. Batchalls and Zellbrigen seem like sensible ideas that can be applied to the insanity of war.

[Jaroth Corbett]

Aaron DeChavilier, on 01 June 2012 - 06:03 PM, said:

So if I drop the wet blanket, you'll stop acting like a little child in his treehouse?
I hardly see that happening, that said, my points still stand:





I love how he puts the ignore on me, but still responds to me; it's hilarious.
He's still sore because he failed to realize that RP-ing in the general discussion of a board was annoying everyone, however he also is still failing to realize; the issue was resolved...EIGHT months ago.
And what he says actually reinforces my point to a T, he sounds like a cultist; "He! He is the one! outsider!"
Then it gets better, he dictates where I should go...rather than me dictating to him, same goes with all here.
And for the record, I don't have a 'section,' and I care not for 'sections,' like all here, I am free to come and go as I please.

First off the only reason I saw your post is because of Morgan Kerensky. Secondly it was not annoying everyone. Thirdly as I said before I will RP when I choose. You DID try to dictate when and where I could RP & it WAS resolved when I told you I was not taking that **** & I IGNORED YOUR ***. Also I wonder why everyone else notes you are an ******* that just comes to troll us. You started the "Who are these Clan players" thread so obviously you do not associate with the Clans. The devs gave you guys your own section, yet you seem to keep coming here to start fights? What a miserable existence you must live if this is your recreation.

And thank you for trolling again. You reinforce MY point to a T.

Edited by Jaroth Winson, 01 June 2012 - 10:11 PM.