190 replies to this topic

[aniviron]

I've got over 100k xp past mastery on my 9M, 8Q, and 8T, and managed to sneak into the top ten awesomes for this weekend's tourney, and here's been my experience with the AWS chassis:

-You're really limited with hardpoints, especially for an assault mech. Most variants get six total slots, counting the slot in the face; the 9M has more, but that's actually just a cruel joke because there are FOUR hardpoints in the center torso. The stalker, atlas, highlander, and cataphract, which are the awesome's closest competition, all outclass it significantly. Even some lighter mechs like the Jager and the Hunchbacks have more.

-As an addendum to the above, the weapon locations are horrific. The arm mounts are so low and so wide that you have to expose your mech's legs to fire over a ridge, and you will never be able to fire all your weapon groups around a corner without going completely out into the open to do it. Be prepared to either watch most of your shots hit the terrain five meters in front of you or take a lot of damage when you peek out. For anyone who has never piloted an awesome, it makes you feel like you are driving a gorilla, with those big clumsy arms.

-The only aws which gives you a single reason to run it instead of a stk is the 9m (and I guess the pretty baby, if you are rich), and this is only because of the engine size. The other variants all have pretty good torso twist, but it is worthless without the bigger engine. You're too slow to effectively bash your noggin into the long range mechs before you get close enough to where the torso twist matters.

-Your torsos are GIGANTIC. In the current high-alpha pinpoint metagame, this will get you killed over and over and over again. If balance ever swings back in favor of LRMs/SRMs, it will get you killed there as well. When I point this out on the forums, the inevitable response is "oh hur you should torso twist." Yeah, I got that. But your torsos are actually so large that you can get hit from both front and back if your arm is directly facing an opponent, because they stick out. And if your opponent isn't awful, he cores you anyway, almost every time.

I don't think the AWS is very far from being reasonable competition with a stalker. I'd quite like to see it given a proper niche, and maybe a tweak or two.

-Increasing the max engine size to 360-380 on the slow variants of the aws would give the chassis a role to play- while it will never be able to outgun the atlases, stalkers and highlanders, it can outflank them at least. (And hey, it's a good money sink too- an Xl380 is almost 7m cbills...)

-Tweak the aws' weapon hardpoints. Seriously, it's just silly that the HBK-4P can hold more mlas than the AWS-8Q. How this ever came about, I will never know. And while we're at it, maybe the 15-tube launchers on the 8T and 8V could hold two srm racks instead of one.

-This last is the most important, and the most on-topic. If you look at the aws in the mech lab, the mech's components look like this:


But in-game, the hitbox is actually this green area:



Changing the side torsos to have the hitbox they have in the mech lab would make a pretty huge difference. Coupled with the max engine rating improvement, it would make the chassis actually worth playing, even with bad hardpoints and weapon locations and the huge size. Unfortunately, I very much doubt that we will see this change, as the awesome has already received its "quirks" in an earlier patch.

Edited by aniviron, 10 June 2013 - 11:39 PM.

[Adrienne Vorton]

the Flawsome was a victim way before the stalker... the stalker is just way better, that´s true... but its not the stalkers fault that the Flawsome is so bad

[Rippthrough]

Let's have some proper chassis 'quirks' to compensate and give the awesome a +5% damage on energy weapons.....it supposedly being an energy boat and all...

[MustrumRidcully]

Royalewithcheese, on 22 April 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

Unfortunately there's not much that can be done to change the Awesome being a bad mech given current rules re: hitbox/armor/etc. Maybe it should just get a couple of ballistic hardpoints.

Great idea. Remove 2 energy or misile hard points on every Awesome that the specific chassis doesn't need to fit its minimum requirements from the stock loadout, and add one ballistic slot in the left and one in the right torso.

It won't happen, but it would probably suddenly make the Awesome interesting, even if it's a walking barn.

[TexAce]

Rippthrough, on 23 April 2013 - 04:45 AM, said:

and give the awesome a +5% damage on energy weapons.....it supposedly being an energy boat and all...

this is just wrong. so so wrong. if we start doing this, this game will go to hell. And this is coming from a true AWS-Fan with over 80k XP past mastery with my 8R and 20k past mastery with my 8V

Edited by TexAss, 23 April 2013 - 05:00 AM.

[Rippthrough]

TexAss, on 23 April 2013 - 04:58 AM, said:

this is just wrong. so so wrong. if we start doing this, this game will go to hell. And this is coming from a true AWS-Fan with over 80k XP past mastery with my 8R and 20k past mastery with my 8V

God forbid we should have some upsides to go with the downsides of a chassis instead of making them all bland cookie-cutter builds where the choice is simply which chassis is the heaviest in the class that I can cram 19 PPC's on, eh?

P.S. - 80K EXP is just getting started, not a fan, I've a couple of million on my favorites

Edited by Rippthrough, 23 April 2013 - 05:04 AM.

[TexAce]

Rippthrough, on 23 April 2013 - 05:03 AM, said:

God forbid we should have some upsides to go with the downsides of a chassis instead of making them all bland cookie-cutter builds where the choice is simply which chassis is the heaviest in the class that I can cram 19 PPC's on, eh?

P.S. - 80K EXP is just getting started, not a fan, I've a couple of million on my favorites

it absolutely makes no sense, there is just no reason to do so, you can't explain it in any way.

Just adjust the 3d model slightly and it will all be just fine.
The mechs already have enough differences to not be all cookie-cutter. Variety is given, some mechs and weapons just need to be tweaked a tiny bit thats all.

[Keifomofutu]

TexAss, on 23 April 2013 - 05:06 AM, said:

it absolutely makes no sense, there is just no reason to do so, you can't explain it in any way.

Just adjust the 3d model slightly and it will all be just fine.
The mechs already have enough differences to not be all cookie-cutter. Variety is given, some mechs and weapons just need to be tweaked a tiny bit thats all.

Unfortunately getting PGI to admit they screwed up a 3d model's scaling or height or width has proven in the past to be more difficult than anything else. People have nagged them about the catapult being too big, the centurion being too big, the trebuchet being too big, the stalker being too small, the cicada being twice as big as jenner at merely 5tons more. And of course our boy the awesome being way too wide with a perfectly square hitbox. It goes on and on.

It's one aspect of this game PGI just sticks their fingers in their ears and shuts everyone out.

[ThunderHart]

Keifomofutu, on 23 April 2013 - 06:23 AM, said:

Unfortunately getting PGI to admit they screwed up a 3d model's scaling or height or width has proven in the past to be more difficult than anything else. People have nagged them about the catapult being too big, the centurion being too big, the trebuchet being too big, the stalker being too small, the cicada being twice as big as jenner at merely 5tons more. And of course our boy the awesome being way too wide with a perfectly square hitbox. It goes on and on.

It's one aspect of this game PGI just sticks their fingers in their ears and shuts everyone out.

I do not agree !

[Keifomofutu]

ThunderHart, on 23 April 2013 - 06:30 AM, said:

I do not agree ! <_<

Source? Have they ever changed the size of anything?(In the back of my head they might have shrunk cent not enough way back in early beta).

[Roland]

aniviron, on 23 April 2013 - 02:39 AM, said:

-This last is the most important, and the most on-topic. If you look at the aws in the mech lab, the mech's components look like this:


But in-game, the hitbox is actually this green area:

This right here is a pretty rock-solid argument for changing the hitboxes. And honestly, if the shoulder-pads actually directed damage into the arms, the awesome would likely become a pretty hard target.

The one issue that I suspect would need to be addressed if that's the case is what happens to the shoulder pad after the arm is destroyed? Does that section of the should disappear, or does hitting it further result in damage transfer to the side torso armor, at a normal transfer rate of 50%?

Honestly, with just that change, the awesome would likely become so durable that even the slow ones would be viable.

[ThunderHart]

TexAss, on 23 April 2013 - 05:06 AM, said:

it absolutely makes no sense, there is just no reason to do so, you can't explain it in any way.

Just adjust the 3d model slightly and it will all be just fine.
The mechs already have enough differences to not be all cookie-cutter. Variety is given, some mechs and weapons just need to be tweaked a tiny bit thats all.

I do agree with just a little tweak everything else about the MECH is great, its one of the few variants that I have 4 of and all are mastered. But since I am so heavily vested in the MECH I want it to be a great experience for others as well so buy going threw this forum and getting POSITIVE feed back from the group maybe splitting the hit box from the arm, outer torso and center torso would do the trick?

[Edwyndham]

aniviron, on 23 April 2013 - 02:39 AM, said:

-Your torsos are GIGANTIC. In the current high-alpha pinpoint metagame, this will get you killed over and over and over again. If balance ever swings back in favor of LRMs/SRMs, it will get you killed there as well. When I point this out on the forums, the inevitable response is "oh hur you should torso twist." Yeah, I got that. But your torsos are actually so large that you can get hit from both front and back if your arm is directly facing an opponent, because they stick out. And if your opponent isn't awful, he cores you anyway, almost every time.

One of the biggest issues on this mech IMO. Even if you try to advance with your 'shield arm' facing the opponent, a good pilot can still core you out.

[TexAce]

zwanglos, on 23 April 2013 - 08:41 AM, said:

One of the biggest issues on this mech IMO. Even if you try to advance with your 'shield arm' facing the opponent, a good pilot can still core you out.

this is unfortunately very true. no matter how far away you twist your torso from the opponent, the most of them still manage to hit your CT. A really bad design flaw.

Edited by TexAss, 23 April 2013 - 08:52 AM.

[Chuckdatass]

Keifomofutu, on 23 April 2013 - 06:32 AM, said:

Source? Have they ever changed the size of anything?(In the back of my head they might have shrunk cent not enough way back in early beta).

That joke went way over your head...

[Tahribator]

I think the fundamental flaw of Awesome is it's model in MWO. They made it unnecessarily wide for a light assault that it's soaking up all incoming damage but the armor is just not there.

Compare it to Stalkers, where their torso model is even smaller than a Catapult, have ST's that completely cover CT from sides and on top of that big boxy arms that cover half of ST's. So you usually have to go through arms and ST to finally get to CT. It's proportions are on the small scale and this mech is massively benefiting from that.

For a starting point, I agree with aniviron's suggestion that arm hitboxes should cover a bit of the side torso.

[Keifomofutu]

Chuckdatass, on 23 April 2013 - 08:59 AM, said:

That joke went way over your head...

One emoticon does not a joke make.

[NRP]

I too am an Awesome fan, but I feel I really can't play one in the current meta. With all the high alpha snipers, you can lose most of your CT armor before you even know what hit you. Torso twisting won't help you here. I certainly hope PGI isn't finished tweaking the Awesome.

[John MatriX82]

aniviron, on 23 April 2013 - 02:39 AM, said:

I've got over 100k xp past mastery on my 9M, 8Q, and 8T, and managed to sneak into the top ten awesomes for this weekend's tourney, and here's been my experience with the AWS chassis:

-You're really limited with hardpoints, especially for an assault mech. Most variants get six total slots, counting the slot in the face; the 9M has more, but that's actually just a cruel joke because there are FOUR hardpoints in the center torso. The stalker, atlas, highlander, and cataphract, which are the awesome's closest competition, all outclass it significantly. Even some lighter mechs like the Jager and the Hunchbacks have more.

-As an addendum to the above, the weapon locations are horrific. The arm mounts are so low and so wide that you have to expose your mech's legs to fire over a ridge, and you will never be able to fire all your weapon groups around a corner without going completely out into the open to do it. Be prepared to either watch most of your shots hit the terrain five meters in front of you or take a lot of damage when you peek out. For anyone who has never piloted an awesome, it makes you feel like you are driving a gorilla, with those big clumsy arms.

-The only aws which gives you a single reason to run it instead of a stk is the 9m (and I guess the pretty baby, if you are rich), and this is only because of the engine size. The other variants all have pretty good torso twist, but it is worthless without the bigger engine. You're too slow to effectively bash your noggin into the long range mechs before you get close enough to where the torso twist matters.

-Your torsos are GIGANTIC. In the current high-alpha pinpoint metagame, this will get you killed over and over and over again. If balance ever swings back in favor of LRMs/SRMs, it will get you killed there as well. When I point this out on the forums, the inevitable response is "oh hur you should torso twist." Yeah, I got that. But your torsos are actually so large that you can get hit from both front and back if your arm is directly facing an opponent, because they stick out. And if your opponent isn't awful, he cores you anyway, almost every time.

I don't think the AWS is very far from being reasonable competition with a stalker. I'd quite like to see it given a proper niche, and maybe a tweak or two.

-Increasing the max engine size to 360-380 on the slow variants of the aws would give the chassis a role to play- while it will never be able to outgun the atlases, stalkers and highlanders, it can outflank them at least. (And hey, it's a good money sink too- an Xl380 is almost 7m cbills...)

-Tweak the aws' weapon hardpoints. Seriously, it's just silly that the HBK-4P can hold more mlas than the AWS-8Q. How this ever came about, I will never know. And while we're at it, maybe the 15-tube launchers on the 8T and 8V could hold two srm racks instead of one.

-This last is the most important, and the most on-topic. If you look at the aws in the mech lab, the mech's components look like this:


But in-game, the hitbox is actually this green area:



Changing the side torsos to have the hitbox they have in the mech lab would make a pretty huge difference. Coupled with the max engine rating improvement, it would make the chassis actually worth playing, even with bad hardpoints and weapon locations and the huge size. Unfortunately, I very much doubt that we will see this change, as the awesome has already received its "quirks" in an earlier patch.

Yep I've suggested the same in page 2 or 3 I don't remember. With that big hip, whenever your arm goes off, any shot that hits that shoulder would only transfer 50% damage on the side torso, making the whole chassis sturdier or more useful if you want to try the XL way.

[ThunderHart]

John MatriX82, on 23 April 2013 - 11:27 AM, said:

Yep I've suggested the same in page 2 or 3 I don't remember. With that big hip, whenever your arm goes off, any shot that hits that shoulder would only transfer 50% damage on the side torso, making the whole chassis sturdier or more useful if you want to try the XL way.

I agree also but the plan is to spread the damage out a bit more so adding another hit-box would do it right because if you add it to the arm area that is usually the first to go. So add a additional box for upper and lower shoulder separating it from the center. That would add additional area while keeping the 80 ton's that along with its speed, twist and firepower would make it balanced.