552 replies to this topic

[Belorion]

Dart Nimrod, on 09 August 2013 - 05:37 AM, said:

Goons? Are you seriously think that insults is the best choice when you want to point the discussion in the right direction? Before telling people about becoming a mature individual, you better learn how to be patient and tolerant.

And what was that, you said about trolling, Mr. "nearly 4000 posts"? If all those posts were strictly essentially, then I must admit that you are amazingly intellectual and erudite person, and made a great input into education of MWO community. But I have serious doubts about that. So if you want people to follow your wise teachings, you better learn how to be more humble.

I apologize in advance, if something in this post you will find sarcastic and/or abusive.

I am about as patient and tolerant as they come. Was there a particular post where you felt I was being impatient or non-tolerant? I am also typically humble. You will not see me using Elo or some other "selective" criteria for arguing my case. I have been wrong before, and will be wrong again. I try my best to really listen to others arguments to see if they have merit.


Was there a particular post where you felt I was being insulting?

[Dart Nimrod]

Belorion, on 09 August 2013 - 06:12 AM, said:

I am about as patient and tolerant as they come. Was there a particular post where you felt I was being impatient or non-tolerant? I am also typically humble. You will not see me using Elo or some other "selective" criteria for arguing my case. I have been wrong before, and will be wrong again. I try my best to really listen to others arguments to see if they have merit.


Was there a particular post where you felt I was being insulting?

I'm generally agree with you (especially about trolling), but still don't like your tone and manner of communication. And if you think, I'm wrong, simply ignore me.

[armchairyoda]

Belorion, on 08 August 2013 - 04:40 PM, said:

The 2PPC+Gauss fotm has only been in place for a little over a week. I am already starting to see it fade. Before that, yes PPCs were dominant for a bit. Since then they came out with two patches that address it, the last one being on the 30th of July... 9 days ago.

So yes, it needs a little time to adjust.

This guy must play on the dev's server.

[Belorion]

Tone on the internet can do funny things.

My ultimate goal is to try and get people to be less insulting and tolerant. I am human and make mistakes so feel free to call me out when I do.

[Dart Nimrod]

Belorion, on 09 August 2013 - 06:33 AM, said:

Tone on the internet can do funny things.

My ultimate goal is to try and get people to be less insulting and tolerant. I am human and make mistakes so feel free to call me out when I do.

Wow! I'm glad, you're a reasonable man, who don't screw everyone, who has a bit different opinion.

[Garth Erlam]

Chronojam, on 08 August 2013 - 04:07 PM, said:

That's because you're closed-minded enough that you believe that Paul's Magnum Opus aka Ghost Heat is the true solution and refuse to believe that simply making the other weapons better would lead to other weapons being used more. You're a legendary founder, you were there when the metagame wasn't like this.

Unless you stopped playing after two weeks and only came back in February, you should remember a better time. When I say that, let me be super clear: nobody is arguing that the netcode was better then, nobody is arguing that the score screen was better than, nobody would suggest that the chat or config options or base/capture graphics were as good as they are now.

But the game was better balanced and more fun, medium and light mechs had a place on the battlefield, and mid-to-high level play wasn't jumping cataphracts or highlanders fit with 2x1 PPC/Gauss combinations.

That's right, newcomers, the game was once not all about the long-range high-alpha nonsense you see today.

You mean when the k2 'gausscat' was 'all you saw in 8v8' - you're right, that was a far better non long-range, high-alpha 'meta.'

PS. This is your only warning about insulting people. Do it again and you can sit in the corner and think about what you've done.

[Chavette]

Garth Erlam, on 09 August 2013 - 08:05 AM, said:

You mean when the k2 'gausscat' was 'all you saw in 8v8' - you're right, that was a far better non long-range, high-alpha 'meta.'

PS. This is your only warning about insulting people. Do it again and you can sit in the corner and think about what you've done.

There always was, and will be long range meta, the thing is to keep them balanced against a smart short range rush. And its more than balanced right now... people just don't like taking the long route.

We really need the one button/click team comms/map markers to open up some possibilities.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Garth Erlam, on 09 August 2013 - 08:05 AM, said:

You mean when the k2 'gausscat' was 'all you saw in 8v8' - you're right, that was a far better non long-range, high-alpha 'meta.'

PS. This is your only warning about insulting people. Do it again and you can sit in the corner and think about what you've done.

You mean in open 8v8 where your matchmaker provided no rules such as tonnage to keep things better balanced.

[Nekki Basara]

Garth Erlam, on 09 August 2013 - 08:05 AM, said:

You mean when the k2 'gausscat' was 'all you saw in 8v8' - you're right, that was a far better non long-range, high-alpha 'meta.'

PS. This is your only warning about insulting people. Do it again and you can sit in the corner and think about what you've done.

I actually don't remember that happening two often. The standard composition seemed to be various Atlas K brawler fits and two Gausscat with a Jenner F to prevent back-caps. I might have gotten lucky though.

[Belorion]

Nekki Basara, on 09 August 2013 - 08:50 AM, said:

I actually don't remember that happening two often. The standard composition seemed to be various Atlas K brawler fits and two Gausscat with a Jenner F to prevent back-caps. I might have gotten lucky though.

My merc corp did some all guass cat/uac5 cat drops that were pretty hilarious. Oddly effective, but I feel some of the was the "psychological factor".

[Nekki Basara]

Actually, you know what I bet it was? Pre-Elo matchmaking. I never drove a heavy, thus I never saw a team of nothing but heavies. Joke drops were always a thing though. I miss the old Boss Fight and Metal Babby Deathrace nigths

[Dart Nimrod]

Garth Erlam, on 09 August 2013 - 08:05 AM, said:

...was a far better non long-range, high-alpha 'meta.'...

I'm a noob and my English is poor, so could someone explain me what it means - 'meta', at least in this context?

[Belorion]

Dart Nimrod, on 09 August 2013 - 10:58 AM, said:

I'm a noob and my English is poor, so could someone explain me what it means - 'meta', at least in this context?

Its the game beyond the game. Trying to get an advantage due to a load out, or specific build that may be faster.

You might be able to translate this wiki page with google: http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Metagaming

[Graufalk]

Garth Erlam, on 09 August 2013 - 08:05 AM, said:

You mean when the k2 'gausscat' was 'all you saw in 8v8' - you're right, that was a far better non long-range, high-alpha 'meta.'

PS. This is your only warning about insulting people. Do it again and you can sit in the corner and think about what you've done.

Why are the devs using "at least you don't see X build anymore!" as a justification for current balance?

In fact, why is this the ONLY dev post when it comes to 2PPC1Gauss?

[bardlord]

Overall, I like the patch, assuming 12v12 is not intended to be the ONLY mode of play. The C-bill seems to be a big problem, I am down 10-15%/match......but I have LOTS of C-bills....many don't and new players will be turned off. The video fixes work well for me, and even in 12v12, my Asus laptop only lost 5-8fps. Lastly, on 12v12, how about 2 new play modes, that is 8v8 and 12v12 for each assault and conquest. and/or restrict 12v12 to the 3 large maps. Overall, in my 105drops in 12v12, I only kind of enjoy the game this way. It is too difficult for new players, and on the smaller maps is WAY less fun...especially when you have 16 lights running around(its fun the first couple times.....then its not). I am in agreement, though I still like the game, that if 12v12 remains the only way to play I will likely quit, and will likely try and ask for Phoenix Refund. However, I doubt this is PGI's intention.

[Chronojam]

Garth Erlam, on 09 August 2013 - 08:05 AM, said:

You mean when the k2 'gausscat' was 'all you saw in 8v8' - you're right, that was a far better non long-range, high-alpha 'meta.'

PS. This is your only warning about insulting people. Do it again and you can sit in the corner and think about what you've done.

Let's get real here. Garth, please do stay around and let's talk about this. I'd say that, looking back, the biggest problem with the K2 Gaussapult was its flexibility at close range due to its absurd torso twist coupled with its long-range capability. This made flanking it particularly difficult, and kept it competitive at short ranges. It was not the only viable short range build, but was often employed as a midrange build because of the fact it was very hard to get behind it since it could act like an owl and turn its head to face a rear attacker. Indeed, the Gaussapult worked very well as a brawler.

As a sniper, the K2 also had a very large head (and still does) which meant that it had to be very careful since other gauss, large lasers, etc could headcap it. It also could not jump (and still can't) and was competing against fast-Awesomes packing medium lasers or SRMs, Swaybacks (designs that have been outdated by punitive mechanics changes), and tackling Dragons (removed October 25) that could shove over a pair of K2 Gausscats.

You cannot compare the K2 with the less ammo-dependant, more heavily armored, jump-capable, small-headed sniper builds of today and come out honestly believing the K2 Gauss fits were anywhere near as prolific or capable. Especially when the main non-sniper competition (even among Catapults, like twin AC/20, StreakCat, or SRM-Cat) simply is not allowed to exist anymore.

At that time, the matchmaker also disregarded force composition -- because of this, a far, far more effective "cheese build" was to simply stand an eight-Atlas force in your base. Pop just a single curious/overextended enemy mech, and you could camp with impunity, knowing the enemy had to come down in there or lose after the clock ran out -- you would win, 1:0.

PS How should I more politely call people out for telling blatant lies? What's the official method here? I provided dates to disprove his nonsense, if he didn't want to be called a liar he ought not to have lied. If you mean I insulted him by calling him closed-minded, well, he ought to stop claiming he's never seen any suggestions provided while replying to people providing suggestions.

[jrgong]

Chronojam, on 09 August 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

You cannot compare the K2 with the less ammo-dependant, more heavily armored, jump-capable, small-headed sniper builds of today and come out honestly believing the K2 Gauss fits were anywhere near as prolific or capable. Especially when the main non-sniper competition (even among Catapults, like twin AC/20, StreakCat, or SRM-Cat) simply is not allowed to exist anymore.

Couldn't have said it better myself; people will continue to snipe until close range weapons are viable, regardless of whatever ill thought out stop gaps like "ghost heat" are implemented. Srms simply aren't worth having at 2.0 dmg with current hit detection, and all other close range combos being either banned (ex. dual ac20s) or unviable (ex. lbx10 anyone? ).

[MisterFiveSeven]

Belorion, on 08 August 2013 - 04:40 PM, said:

The 2PPC+Gauss fotm has only been in place for a little over a week. I am already starting to see it fade. Before that, yes PPCs were dominant for a bit. Since then they came out with two patches that address it, the last one being on the 30th of July... 9 days ago.

So yes, it needs a little time to adjust.

I don't like to call people out, but this is ridiculous.

It's only been the meta for the past couple weeks because adding another ppc to that mix wasn't worth it. It did nothing to change the fact that (wait for it, because I'm gonna make it easy to chew on):

PPC's ARE THE BEST WEAPON IN THE GAME AT ALL RANGES AGAINST ALL OPPONENTS
GAUSS HAS BEST SYNGERY WITH PPC
YOU NEED AT LEAST ONE BALLISTIC AND TWO ENERGY HPs TO MAKE THIS WORK

I love the game. It's lots of fun. I continue to enjoy playing. But sweet jesus man, you're running through the halls with your ears covered screaming "HATERS CAN'T HURT MY GAME" like they don't have any valid critiques and the only reason they post on the forums is to give you someone to retort to between drops.

Edited by MisterFiveSeven, 09 August 2013 - 02:51 PM.

[Helmer]

Graufalk, on 09 August 2013 - 12:32 PM, said:

In fact, why is this the ONLY dev post when it comes to 2PPC1Gauss?

Because there's nothing else to share yet.


Cheers.

[Anders]

Garth Erlam, on 09 August 2013 - 08:05 AM, said:

You mean when the k2 'gausscat' was 'all you saw in 8v8' - you're right, that was a far better non long-range, high-alpha 'meta.'

PS. This is your only warning about insulting people. Do it again and you can sit in the corner and think about what you've done.

Mr. Erlam:

Out of all the discourse in this thread, this is what you've deemed worthy to comment on? Not the fact that PPCs are too good, Ghost heat is a failure, Elo matchmaking is terrible (hopefully being fixed soon, as per other dev statements), and then to top it all off, a gentlemen with real passion for the game makes cogent, intelligent, researched statements, backed up with evidence (hey, it's that word again!), and the best that you can come up with is a passive-agressive statement such as "PS. This is your only warning about insulting people. Do it again and you can sit in the corner and think about what you've done."

You're being intellectually dishonest in your statement "the k2 'gausscat' was 'all you saw in 8v8' - you're right, that was a far better non long-range, high-alpha 'meta.'" So we didn't see Cent-A's, DDC's or anything else, eh? We never saw brawling comps? Where are you getting this data from?

I am so deeply ashamed for you that you have to toe the company line on this, Mr. Erlam. You're a community manager - passive-aggressively telling people to sit in the corner is the best that you can do?

Do better.

Robotically Yours,
Anders