306 replies to this topic

[Artillery Witch Viridia]

For better quality the twitch highlight. http://www.twitch.tv/azoic23/c/3134025

Just one example video maybe I will just record all the time and post more eventually but I think it shows the point adequately.
Poptarts are taking over MWO. Pretty soon the only options are going to be join them in jump capable mechs and camp behind terrain mech not exposed at all or quit. You cannot even return fire in the window of opportunity to do so against them on most terrain. Part of that is terrain hitbox invisible barriers just outside of the terrain. Those issues aside they still pose an insurmountable advantage in gameplay mechanics. Even on mechs with high mounts arms such as the Jager, the jumping mech always has the advantage. The time it takes to even get shots back compared to falling behind terrain after shooting provides a huge advantage to jump jet mounting mechs. You are unlikely to hit even with weapons trained on where they will pop up at if you are that lucky. This is worse at longer ranges. Moving up is out of the question as you will get chewed up while they are completely protected by terrain. If I was in one of my Altas on this map I would have been at an even worse disadvantage as they can hardly fire up at an object at all and not contact terrain. Not the best gameplay on my part even when I was trying to back up and pull them around in hopes of getting a shot off. You cannot shoot close to the edge of terrain either so I didn't attempt to waste ammo doing so. My gameplay this particular match is not the point I know I played subpar but honestly it felt like a lost cause with just the same type of terrain all over to retreat to. I would have just reset the encounter for them to move around and do the same thing without being able to fight back. Still I have been in some matches where entire teams are Shadowhawks, Victors and Highlanders now. It is turning into poptart online. On top of that jumping mechs have warped hitboxes. Many weapon systems have reduced effect against them such as lrms and lasers (time on target) and no background for accurate convergence of other weapons. Anyone of tactical mind can see that if you are not driving a poptart against a team of poptarts you are going to get rolled. I propose developers disable weapon systems while jumpjetting and the time it takes to fall back down after using them. Team vs team gameplay will be everyone in Poptarts putting their mechs in completely unexposed terrain positions. Then hardly anyone moves at all or maneuvers very little. The game will be generally boring, the teams will get little hits on each other until someone has the kill advantage to risk moving their mechs. People shouldn't feel pressured to play like this. LRMs are almost extinct as it is. The same with ecm up until this poptart era, being forced to run Jumpjet and ecm mechs or have a huge disadvantage. When the gameplay becomes 100% poptart wars without changes to jumpjets pgi better only put out JJ capable mechs or nobody will buy them. Unless you feel like running non-competitive chassis.

[Artillery Witch Viridia]

Also before someone Strawmans my piloting skills to just say I don't know what I am talking about, I know I could have done better that match but it's not the point. I have 48 matches played in that Jager after that and 24,029 damage done in that mech. That's 500 average damage per match not elited, only have one variant so far. The argument should be about jumpjet firing.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

The problem with this solution, is how does the game know the difference between free-falling from a jump, or dropping off a ledge?

I think stricter jump physics would be a good solution.
Way more leg damage from falling.
Internal structure damage from falling, no armor damage.
much longer JJ refuel, or limited jump jet fuel (based on number of jump jets)
Stricter limitation on jump height. 1 JJ should only be enough thrust for a 5m high jump.

[johnyboy420]

a bad mechanic that came from mech4, you can Jump Snipe in mech 3 but the PPC's and Guass didnt move fast so it took huge leads too hit something, i dont know why they alowed this when they said it waz fallowing TT but PGI dose so much dumb stuff i dont ask anymore i expect it lawl

Edited by johnyboy420, 24 October 2013 - 11:12 AM.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

*pulls at hair*

"WHEN WILL IT EVER STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"


(the QQ threads not the poptarting or any "QQ i got killed by X so X is not fair threads)

[Joseph Mallan]

Funkadelic Mayhem, on 24 October 2013 - 11:12 AM, said:

*pulls at hair*

"WHEN WILL IT EVER STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"


(the QQ threads not the poptarting or any "QQ i got killed by X so X is not fair threads)

To be honest... when we stop drawing breath Funk.

[johnyboy420]

them WHITE KNIGHTS bro them WHITE KNIGHTS XD

[AlmightyAeng]

Not to belittle your argument, but in the video you posted I see a a team of 4 enemy 'mechs jumping up and getting positions on you...and then jumping and firing on others.

I see a sniper (you) with 4 ac5 staying in the same place AFTER you feel you've been spotted. Then I see PPC fire from a second part of the map (not from the mechs who were jumping) take you out.

Yes, the 'mechs jumped too quickly for you to shoot them...you kept a big hill between them and you...and the ones who were 'poptarting' weren't firing at YOU while jumping...they were trading fire with one of your more exposed teammates...

With no comment on piloting skill, I am unconvinced of this 'poptartapocalypse' based on your video evidence.

[Artillery Witch Viridia]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 24 October 2013 - 11:07 AM, said:

The problem with this solution, is how does the game know the difference between free-falling from a jump, or dropping off a ledge?

That is kind of what I want implemented. I think a weapon restriction while jumpjet is being used and shortly after say 2-3 seconds after releasing them should solve it. That will relegate jump jets to being used for terrain navigation only.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

Joseph Mallan, on 24 October 2013 - 11:15 AM, said:

To be honest... when we stop drawing breath Funk.

*starts pumping methane into the air...* "ooooops i think i sharted"

Edited by Funkadelic Mayhem, 24 October 2013 - 11:25 AM.

[Imperius]

[Redacted Quote]

[Redacted] I agree with OP, but would like to expand the title.

Poptarting Light MechWarrior Online.

Edited by John Wolf, 27 October 2013 - 02:42 PM.
Quote Redacted

[New Day]

Azoic23, on 24 October 2013 - 11:00 AM, said:

You are late to the party. If you think that there are poptarts now you should have seen things 3 months ago.

[Mechteric]

Seeing wall of text hurts. PGI does need to improve DPS based weapons, along with LRMs, those would help make poptarting have more appropriate counters. But they can't nerf poptarts any more than they already have (not that I'm saying they didn't deserve it)

[Artillery Witch Viridia]

Ghost Badger, on 24 October 2013 - 11:23 AM, said:

Not to belittle your argument, but in the video you posted I see a a team of 4 enemy 'mechs jumping up and getting positions on you...and then jumping and firing on others.

I see a sniper (you) with 4 ac5 staying in the same place AFTER you feel you've been spotted. Then I see PPC fire from a second part of the map (not from the mechs who were jumping) take you out.

Yes, the 'mechs jumped too quickly for you to shoot them...you kept a big hill between them and you...and the ones who were 'poptarting' weren't firing at YOU while jumping...they were trading fire with one of your more exposed teammates...

With no comment on piloting skill, I am unconvinced of this 'poptartapocalypse' based on your video evidence.

From the amount of fire directed towards my teammates I would say they were getting decimated by them more than me. I edged backwards but that is not enough to counter them. If I turned tail and retreat it would have been even worse as there is no favorable terrain to retreat to to counter poptart mechanics on this map. The only hope I had was my team pushing up but that doesn't happen anymore. They really stood no chance with even 1 lance of poptarts doing that to them. I will record more but I am seeing the prevalency of poptarts to be the norm now rather than just a few people. Keeping a big hill between me and them was my only option to cut down on the fire I was taking moving up was suicide and I just basically gave up around the end. No matter where I was they could always use the lower terrain to jump from for the same results.

[w0rm]

Learn the same lesson the french learned at Agincourt.

[SilentWolff]

So after watching that video, I see a {Shazbot} player that stands still the whole match and wonders why he dies a horrible death. Jump sniping has already been nerfed to the point it takes skill to be successful with it.
My advice is to spend less time whining on the forums and more time honing your piloting skills. If that video is any indication, you have a lot of work to do.

[Bront]

Using cover to your advantage is a way to win. Poptarting is part of that, but there are other ways as well. Missile boats who know what they're doing can counter poptarts, as can some snipers. Lights can flank and distract them, and if you keep moving, they can't really draw a good bead on you anyway (they don't have that much longer to aim than you do)

PGI was discussing making shake worse on mechs in the air that get hit as well I believe.

I won't say learn to pilot, but learn to adapt. Things will change eventually, and it's really hard to nerf poptarting without nerfing other things that shouldn't be (like JJs in general).

[Artillery Witch Viridia]

w0rm, on 24 October 2013 - 11:30 AM, said:

Learn the same lesson the french learned at Agincourt.

There was probably nothing I could do on that map. If my team pushed differently perhaps. However Longbowmen can be bottle necked and cant fly. JJ ensured you couldn't bottleneck as much of that battle was concerned with.

[johnyboy420]

i dont know but 1ER PPC 1 PPC and a Guass in a hindy sounds like a MadCat Mk II with 2 gauss and 2 light gauss from mech4...... just saying lawl

[Artillery Witch Viridia]

SilentWolff, on 24 October 2013 - 11:34 AM, said:

So after watching that video, I see a {Shazbot} player that stands still the whole match and wonders why he dies a horrible death. Jump sniping has already been nerfed to the point it takes skill to be successful with it.
My advice is to spend less time whining on the forums and more time honing your piloting skills. If that video is any indication, you have a lot of work to do.

If you think "jump sniping" is hard or takes skill you must have terrible aim. It's easy and relatively risk free even if they miss. People wouldn't run poptarts if the mechanics were not wildly in their favor.