306 replies to this topic

[Kunae]

Azoic23, on 24 October 2013 - 11:00 AM, said:

I propose developers disable weapon systems while jumpjetting and the time it takes to fall back down after using them.

Stop advocating a line of action that has repercussions beyond what you're trying to address. When you nerf JJ's you nerf lights too, not just your target. This is the same sort of generalized QQ that got the ludicrous JJ-shake put in, in the first place. That didn't hurt the pop-tarts much, and really hurt Jenners and Spiders... at least the Jenners and Spiders who actually use their JJ's effectively in combat.

Jump jets are not the problem, it's the mechs and weapon-systems that are. Do I know the solution? No. But broad-brush nerfs are not what we should be advocating. Instead, perhaps, ask for heavies and assaults to have their initial thrust lowered, or something along those lines.

We don't need another nerf of things that aren't the problem, just to placebo the actual issues.

[KhanHeir]

We've known about this a for a few weeks, we're just a toss at the community finally noticing they brought it back.

I mean, the shaq is just a dead giveaway, especially since it can dual AC5 and jump.


possiblymaybepoptartmodulesomedaymaybesoondottm.

Funkadelic Mayhem, on 24 October 2013 - 11:12 AM, said:

*pulls at hair*

"WHEN WILL IT EVER STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"


(the QQ threads not the poptarting or any "QQ i got killed by X so X is not fair threads)

When the game has run its course and only overgolds remain.

[Captain Stiffy]

"I got killed by someone with jump jets so they must be OP and broken."

Jets are a part of Battletech so get over them. They are incredibly important to some mechs because - when you aren't playing the game in the current vacuum - mines and tons of other {Scrap} have to be avoided entirely by some mechs and jets let them do this.

[Artillery Witch Viridia]

Bront, on 24 October 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

I won't say learn to pilot, but learn to adapt. Things will change eventually, and it's really hard to nerf poptarting without nerfing other things that shouldn't be (like JJs in general).

Easy solution to get rid of poptarting entirely with a few lines of code. The adapt thing is more along the lines of roll a jumpjet mech or be at a disadvantage. That is what the gameplay is turning into. A missile boat would have been likewise extinct as nobody can keep a target lock on a poptart. I shouldn't have to feel like I need to run a JJ chassis or be obsolete. Poptarting is as effective as multiple ecms against missile boats. GG rendered all the main weapons on the other teams missile boats useless.

[AlmightyAeng]

Azoic23, on 24 October 2013 - 11:30 AM, said:

From the amount of fire directed towards my teammates I would say they were getting decimated by them more than me. I edged backwards but that is not enough to counter them. If I turned tail and retreat it would have been even worse as there is no favorable terrain to retreat to to counter poptart mechanics on this map. The only hope I had was my team pushing up but that doesn't happen anymore. They really stood no chance with even 1 lance of poptarts doing that to them. I will record more but I am seeing the prevalency of poptarts to be the norm now rather than just a few people. Keeping a big hill between me and them was my only option to cut down on the fire I was taking moving up was suicide and I just basically gave up around the end. No matter where I was they could always use the lower terrain to jump from for the same results.

With 4AC5's you could have chosen to go through the bowl with the extra heat effecting you almost not at all, and gotten a firing solution from the inside, where they weren't defending from. The mechanic of poptarting is far from OP...and not nearly as simple for pilots as it used to be.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 24 October 2013 - 12:00 PM.

[New Day]

w0rm, on 24 October 2013 - 11:30 AM, said:

Learn the same lesson the french learned at Agincourt.

Aren't in that case English the Poptarts. And the lessons is don't attack the poptarts?

[Artillery Witch Viridia]

Ghost Badger, on 24 October 2013 - 12:00 PM, said:

With 4AC5's you could have chosen to go through the bowl with the extra heat effecting you almost not at all, and gotten a firing solution from the inside, where they weren't defending from. The mechanic of poptarting is far from OP...and not nearly as simple for pilots as it used to be.

They had the bowl covered adequately by poptarts as that was the first place I went to before the start of that clip. being on the rim of the bowl or going inside would have not helped at all unless the entire team was in there.

[Sandpit]

uhm.... wow. Do you realize that EVERY time (not some times, not once in a while but EVERY) time a new tactic comes around there's a call of gloom and doom and how it's "overtaking", "ruining", "destroying". "insert dire negative connotation here", the game. It may be a strategy being implemented, a wepon system, an entire mech chassis, but it never fails. No matter how many people jump on the thread and say they have no problem with it there will be a small band that jump on the bandwagon and call for it's removal, nerf, or counter. This one in particularly though.... really? You're honestly going to say that pilots with JJ capable mechs using cover to jump above and pop off a potshot at someone is somehow "unfair"??? You're honestly going to say that a pilot with JJ capable mechs shouldn't use the advantage of JJ (at the cost of weight and crit slots I might add) to their full potential and use things like cover and concealment to their advantage....? This is a perfectly legitimate, legal, and viable tactic. Oh and just to cut off the snarky know it all replies that would have come without this disclaimer, no I don't use JJ capable mechs often at all so no I am not a potart (feel free to check out my stats if you don't believe it) So from one pilot to another, man up and shoot back. It's not like you can't target and shoot back when they pop up

[w0rm]

NamesAreStupid, on 24 October 2013 - 12:03 PM, said:

Aren't in that case English the Poptarts. And the lessons is don't attack the poptarts?

[Gauvan]

I've spent a good deal of time lately in Highlanders, which are probably one of the more notorious "pop-tart" mechs. If I can afford it, when a particular mech or strategy irks me, I buy the mech and try it from the other side of the equation--that's what initially got me into Highlanders.

My personal experience is that traditional pop-tarting is very situational and not a very high DPS proposition. With cockpit shake you have a very short time to line up the shot, and if the target is moving at all my chances of scoring a hit are significantly reduced (I'm probably a middling player with a decent amount of experience--I'm sure there are crack shots out there).

It's kind of a variation on the two mechs waiting on the other to poke out from behind cover, it's just happening in the vertical, rather than the horizontal (and it happens more quickly). In my opinion it's a bad play either way, because it depends on your opponent moving back into a known spot to get shot. Unless you are dealing with a truly ace player I think if you move laterally a bit you will throw off their aim enough to help counter the tactic.

In my experience, maintaing a static location is giving the initiative to you opponent. They know where you are and can line up the shot while still in cover.

Shoot and scoot.

[SilentWolff]

Azoic23, on 24 October 2013 - 11:47 AM, said:

If you think "jump sniping" is hard or takes skill you must have terrible aim. It's easy and relatively risk free even if they miss. People wouldn't run poptarts if the mechanics were not wildly in their favor.

It's so easy you're on the forums crying about it instead of actually in the game doing it.

[KharnZor]

I was thinking we'd all traveled back in time. Then i saw the footage.
The only time poptarting is a problem now is when you have a team that plays like that. Not mobile and mainly static.
Considering the nerfs to poptarting its now only used effectively by few players compared to how it used to be.

[WaywardMind]

I have no real issue with people "poptarting" I drive an atlas more often then not and have just learned how to maneuver and attack or time shots with PPC's and AC's. I've got toe-to-toe over a ledge a few times with folks popping up. they do some damage but usually I do enough to route them and force them off.

[Elwood Blues]

I haven't found poptarts to be nearly as pervasive as they used to be. Also not as long ranged. I've found that if you keep moving and don't just stand still, the poptart has to reorient on you each time and isn't as accurate.

So, I don't really see a problem. There use to be a problem, but I just don't see it now.

[New Day]

w0rm, on 24 October 2013 - 12:17 PM, said:

And wait...
And wait..
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You have been killed by Boredom.

[N Danger]

Azoic23, on 24 October 2013 - 11:47 AM, said:

If you think "jump sniping" is hard or takes skill you must have terrible aim. It's easy and relatively risk free even if they miss. People wouldn't run poptarts if the mechanics were not wildly in their favor.

Having tried to play a pop tart for the first time last night, I have to say you are wrong. It takes a great deal of timing and skill to pull off. It was easy to be out of position when focus fire was needed. And from my experience before last night as a target for pop tarters: It is easily defeated by cover.  It is defeated by fire and maneuver tactics. It is a valid tactic with effective counters. No nerf needed here.

[CygnusX7]

OP is running quad AC5's and complaining about pop tarting.
LULZ.

Edited by CygnusX7, 24 October 2013 - 12:49 PM.

[Kusanagi Hazen]

NamesAreStupid, on 24 October 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

You are late to the party. If you think that there are poptarts now you should have seen things 3 months ago.

MTE. I thought this was a necro post but when I saw it was started today it makes me wonder how long the OP has been playing.

[Ngamok]

Azoic23, on 24 October 2013 - 11:30 AM, said:

From the amount of fire directed towards my teammates I would say they were getting decimated by them more than me. I edged backwards but that is not enough to counter them. If I turned tail and retreat it would have been even worse as there is no favorable terrain to retreat to to counter poptart mechanics on this map. The only hope I had was my team pushing up but that doesn't happen anymore. They really stood no chance with even 1 lance of poptarts doing that to them. I will record more but I am seeing the prevalency of poptarts to be the norm now rather than just a few people. Keeping a big hill between me and them was my only option to cut down on the fire I was taking moving up was suicide and I just basically gave up around the end. No matter where I was they could always use the lower terrain to jump from for the same results.

Could have gone around them via the caldera and then they can't pop tart. Also, from your video I saw pings up to your right so you had enemies in the caldera as well shooting over at you and others. Just got out manueverd is all.

[Trauglodyte]

Out of curiosity, since when is 2 mechs with JJs jump sniping the downfall of the game? That's 12% of the opposing team based on the 90ish seconds of footage you showed.