306 replies to this topic

[Nebuchadnezzar2]

Roland, on 24 October 2013 - 05:09 PM, said:

You seem to be under the impression that jump sniping involves jumping straight up and down.

Exactly yes what i mean is the jump sniper who sit behind cover jump, exposing 1/3 of their body fire then falling down
For me they look silly. But for me it is viable tactic from the time of super mario bross up till now

If what you mean is jump shooters who jump with much forward momentum, twist and fire, i think they are awsome and shouldnt be removed from the game. While they have surprise and wow factor, it wont prevent them from taking full alpha though

[Mycrus]

Why do bad pilots insist on fighting on the poptart's terms???

I'm spotted by the poptart, but I refuse to move position... I will take my chances and try to fire at him mid-flight while he has a perfect static target (aka bad pilot)..

The poptart meta is passe... It was worse in the past and I mastered my light mechs during that meta... Big side torsos no speed no manueveravibility = light chow...

That or full speed cap runs...

[Joseph Mallan]

In all of the novels I have read, no more than 5 pilots were able to Jump and fire weapons while in the air.

no more than 5 pilots were able to Jump and fire weapons while in the air.

no more than 5 pilots were able to Jump and fire weapons while in the air.

no more than 5 pilots were able to Jump and fire weapons while in the air.

So... Sthap!

[Wispsy]

Joseph Mallan, on 25 October 2013 - 01:53 AM, said:

In all of the novels I have read, no more than 5 pilots were able to Jump and fire weapons while in the air.

no more than 5 pilots were able to Jump and fire weapons while in the air.

no more than 5 pilots were able to Jump and fire weapons while in the air.

no more than 5 pilots were able to Jump and fire weapons while in the air.

So... Sthap!

So it was possible....

[Viges]

Yea right OP, and move arms of your cheese Jager so u couldnt have advantage over other mechs with low placed arms - because THAT IS FAIR.

[Joseph Mallan]

Wispsy, on 25 October 2013 - 02:49 AM, said:

So it was possible....

for less than 0.001% of the warriors. So which two MW:O players get to PopTart?

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 25 October 2013 - 03:10 AM.

[GalaxyBluestar]

i don't know how the op had the kama to stay there. when that happens to me {in the middle of sniping at someone and then 3-4 guys start pot shotting me} i rage move, i go oh for ****'s sake and retreat a few grids because all of a sudden you will lose half a torso and never hear it and sometimes don't even see it happen to you. you have to try and be in a less hostile enviroment so you have the upper hand. not cower away never to show your face again just reposition so that they don't have the luxuries of ridge hopping anymore. i get more annoyed with JJs flying away in a brawl and hit reg in the air gets worse than just the alternate ridge humper tactic. it still amazes me how people get tapped repeatedly and... stay there for some more!

[Farix]

All of this boils down to whether you think jump-sniping should be a valid tactic or not. As Joseph posted, the tactic is possible in lore, but was not very common. However, lore (aka fiction) is based on the whims of the authors as their goal is to write a thrilling story, not to represent the BattleTech universe in an "accurate" way. These whims should not dictate what is and is not technically valid in MWO.

Even the boardgame flat out states that the fiction is always superseded by the rules (Tactical Warfare. pg 9)

Quote

It is important to note that fiction, though essential in making the game universe come alive, should never be construed as rules. While BattleTech fiction usually attempts to adhere to the aesthetics established by the rules, authors often use creative license to accomplish the needs of a given story.

The highlighted portion applies to MWO as well as it does the boardgame. The same relationship between the boardgame and fiction also exists between the boardgame and MWO. So if your argument against a tactic is that it isn't well represented in the fiction or that there are no rules for it in the boardgame, then you need come up with a better argument.

[Voidcrafter]

Mycrus, on 24 October 2013 - 06:28 PM, said:

Why do bad pilots insist on fighting on the poptart's terms???

I'm spotted by the poptart, but I refuse to move position... I will take my chances and try to fire at him mid-flight while he has a perfect static target (aka bad pilot)..

The poptart meta is passe... It was worse in the past and I mastered my light mechs during that meta... Big side torsos no speed no manueveravibility = light chow...
...

So you're saying that I must cower like some woosie, just cause 7 people on the other side thinking "OOH I'M GONNA GO JUMP SNIPE, THAT'S SO NOT MAINSTREAM!!!" and ended in the same match and team decieded to go nuts?
And cower for how long? 5 mins? 10? As long as they get bored from having the "upper"(literally ha ha) hand?
What exactly is not "their terms" in this game? Cause believe it or not I've seen some good poptarts and they can always hold you in "their terms".

"The poptart meta is passe... It was worse in the past and I mastered my light mechs during that meta... Big side torsos no speed no manueveravibility = light chow..."
Eeer... if that was directed toward the poptarts probably you've dodged the fact, that the HGNs(and they're the heaviest JJ mechs...) can sorta - you know - turn around in mid-air almost as fast as any very fast medium mech in the game can. There's a reason those rarely put armor on the back, don't you think?
And what should that mean? That all the rest of the players *MUST* pilot light mechs just to be able to dispose from the ~7 people decieded to go on easy mode?
I also think those numbers of poptarts IS a problem, though I don't take it personally - I actually don't care what I'll have against me.
Good pilot, bad pilot, light or medium, heavy or assault, poptart or boat - same for me - I always try to give my 100% all the time instead of some situational stuff based of that sorts of knowledge.
But do try to call me bad pilot, please - just cause I see a reason in being pinned down by some poptarts - something in the current meta any pilot should pay the most attention to - which kinda prevents me from giving my 100%.
And yea - that's the issue actually - it's not exactly those builds who require you to pay the most attention to them - it's the numbers of those in a game.
1 or 2 - ok - you should be caucious, but it's not a big deal.
3 or 4+ - you gotto completely change your playstyle, otherwise you'll gonna have a baaaaaad time.
And how many mech configs force you to completely
Those are like the boom jaggers - they just have less downsides, the best range in the game and practically when they deliver damage they put themselves in extremely tiny danger of being seriously harmed.
Add to that the mid-air turn/twist and the, I will underline it, INTENTIONALLLY abscence of armor on the back cause those pilots are ordinary fully aware of what I've dscribed, and there you have it - it does seems like an issue now does it?
So basically - again - I don't have issues with those builds - I'm a bit raging against the idea that the pilots mounting them have in mind

[Caswallon]

Joseph Mallan, on 25 October 2013 - 01:53 AM, said:

In all of the novels I have read, no more than 5 pilots were able to Jump and fire weapons while in the air.

no more than 5 pilots were able to Jump and fire weapons while in the air.

no more than 5 pilots were able to Jump and fire weapons while in the air.

no more than 5 pilots were able to Jump and fire weapons while in the air.

So... Sthap!

With respect sir MWO is an Apocryphal Product according to the usually reliable sarna net so arn't you comparing apples to oranges?

If say Mike Stackpole runs off and writes a novel that involves the King of poptarts will your argument remain?
Not that I expect he will. The books/lore etc are just that. The game we play is a separate entity and however misguided the OP was raising an issue he thinks is troublesome. As many have said in this thread they don't find Poptarts to be too much of a trouble, may I further suggest approaching this game as a continuation of the Lore will actually HINDER a new persons play, as stuff is viable here that wasn't written about.

The really bad poptart meta came and went, its making a bit of a comeback - possibly. But after what was before its bearable to me and several others judging by the replies here.

Just 2c more No desire to cause aggravation is intended.

[w0rm]

Joseph Mallan, on 25 October 2013 - 01:53 AM, said:

In all of the novels I have read, no more than 5 pilots were able to Jump and fire weapons while in the air.

no more than 5 pilots were able to Jump and fire weapons while in the air.

no more than 5 pilots were able to Jump and fire weapons while in the air.

no more than 5 pilots were able to Jump and fire weapons while in the air.

So... Sthap!

Maybe the Pilots in the books were just terribad?

[MrMadguy]

The problem will be solved only when poptarts won't be able to fire while in air, i.e. JJs will be used only to climb to the top of walls.

[Karl Streiger]

w0rm, on 25 October 2013 - 05:02 AM, said:

Maybe the Pilots in the books were just terribad?

Öhm nope - those pilots played MWO during closed beta.

MrMadguy, on 25 October 2013 - 05:05 AM, said:

The problem will be solved only when poptarts won't be able to fire while in air, i.e. JJs will be used only to climb to the top of walls.

nope - lazy jump jets that need an eternity to lift off - and convergence calculations pre HSR - pop tarts fixed

Edited by Karl Streiger, 25 October 2013 - 05:06 AM.

[Farix]

MrMadguy, on 25 October 2013 - 05:05 AM, said:

The problem will be solved only when poptarts won't be able to fire while in air, i.e. JJs will be used only to climb to the top of walls.

Is there any particular reason why a mech cannot fire while its jump jets are active, or when the mech is falling—either because it ran out of JJ fuel or falling off a clif or building?

[Joseph Mallan]

Farix, on 25 October 2013 - 05:25 AM, said:

Is there any particular reason why a mech cannot fire while its jump jets are active, or when the mech is falling—either because it ran out of JJ fuel or falling off a clif or building?

Gravity is a btch!

[Joseph Mallan]

Caswallon, on 25 October 2013 - 04:32 AM, said:

With respect sir MWO is an Apocryphal Product according to the usually reliable sarna net so arn't you comparing apples to oranges?

Its still fruit!

Quote

If say Mike Stackpole runs off and writes a novel that involves the King of poptarts will your argument remain?

Not that I expect he will. The books/lore etc are just that. The game we play is a separate entity and however misguided the OP was raising an issue he thinks is troublesome. As many have said in this thread they don't find Poptarts to be too much of a trouble, may I further suggest approaching this game as a continuation of the Lore will actually HINDER a new persons play, as stuff is viable here that wasn't written about.
The really bad poptart meta came and went, its making a bit of a comeback - possibly. But after what was before its bearable to me and several others judging by the replies here.

Mike Stackpole wrote about JediMind tricks in BattleTech (phantom Kell Mechs). I don't see that in MechWarriror? The way to eliminate Pop tarting is disable firing while jumping. Now whether it is or isn't done is not my concern, I am only putting the idea out there cause it would make the MechWarrior game more in tune with its IP.

Quote

Just 2c more No desire to cause aggravation is intended.

No Aggravation caused.

w0rm, on 25 October 2013 - 05:02 AM, said:

Maybe the Pilots in the books were just terribad?

I like this one!

[Wispsy]

w0rm, on 25 October 2013 - 05:02 AM, said:

Maybe the Pilots in the books were just terribad?

Well they were using joysticks...

[Ngamok]

Joseph Mallan, on 25 October 2013 - 01:53 AM, said:

In all of the novels I have read, no more than 5 pilots were able to Jump and fire weapons while in the air.

no more than 5 pilots were able to Jump and fire weapons while in the air.

no more than 5 pilots were able to Jump and fire weapons while in the air.

no more than 5 pilots were able to Jump and fire weapons while in the air.

So... Sthap!

I wasn't one of them. I was one of the other arse kickers.

[Farix]

Joseph Mallan, on 25 October 2013 - 05:29 AM, said:

Gravity is a btch!

Doesn't prevent a MechWarrior from pulling the trigger while the mech is falling.

[Sandpit]

Joseph Mallan, on 25 October 2013 - 01:53 AM, said:

In all of the novels I have read, no more than 5 pilots were able to Jump and fire weapons while in the air.

no more than 5 pilots were able to Jump and fire weapons while in the air.

no more than 5 pilots were able to Jump and fire weapons while in the air.

no more than 5 pilots were able to Jump and fire weapons while in the air.

So... Sthap!

well if you're going to go that route you have to get rid of mech lab and custom mechs as well because if you think pilots that could do that were rare........

I really am happy to see that the VAST majority of pilots have no problem with this tactic. So tired of seeing everyone run to the forums every time they gets rolled and blame everything but their own skill and/or strategy (or lack thereof)