20517 replies to this topic

[Butane9000]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 November 2013 - 06:16 AM, said:

hardpoint locations wrong = NO THUG.

On the other hand, after the Awesome gets a hit box sweep, I might retry My AWS-8Thug

Hard points, schmard points. All that matters is the weaponry. But a AWS-8T could be interesting with a Thug load out.

Odanan, on 12 November 2013 - 03:37 AM, said:

So, what I understood is: they won't have MASC ready for April, 2014, so we will get a new Light Mech instead of the Flea.

Firestarter or Urbanmech, definitely. (Firestarter more likely)

And them, in May, the Banshee.

Who wants to make a bet?

BTW, have you guys read the OP lately? Isn't it a masterpiece?

I'm not sure we'll be getting IS mechs. I think we'll start to see the introduction of the Clan Omnimechs by that point. Time will tell though.

In regards to the OP Odanan: The Locust IIC is 25 tons and not the same tonnage as the regular Locust.

Edited by Butane9000, 12 November 2013 - 07:38 AM.

[Odanan]

Butane9000, on 12 November 2013 - 07:32 AM, said:

In regards to the OP Odanan: The Locust IIC is 25 tons and not the same tonnage as the regular Locust.

Fixing that! Thanks!

[FireSlade]

Butane9000, on 12 November 2013 - 07:32 AM, said:

Hard points, schmard points. All that matters is the weaponry. But a AWS-8T could be interesting with a Thug load out.

I know a lot of people that would agree with you. Me on the other hand keep the arm lock off and would like having my PPCs be able to track that light that decided to run circles around me at 20 meters. Plus I think that the Thug would look very good with MWO's styling.

[Odanan]

Thug? Come on, I would kill for this one:

Unfortunately, it's not official...

[FireSlade]

Odanan, on 12 November 2013 - 01:56 PM, said:

Thug? Come on, I would kill for this one:

Unfortunately, it's not official...

Bah another humanoid... We need more diversity that the Thug offers and it does that without using the meta favorite Ballistics. (granted PPC meta was not very long ago)

[Odanan]

FireSlade, on 12 November 2013 - 02:05 PM, said:

Bah another humanoid... We need more diversity that the Thug offers and it does that without using the meta favorite Ballistics. (granted PPC meta was not very long ago)

Diversity? The Thug is just an Awesome with different looks.
And it has very uniform variants. And it's not even an important/iconic/common mech.

BTW, ballistics FTW!

[FupDup]

FireSlade, on 12 November 2013 - 02:05 PM, said:

Bah another humanoid... We need more diversity that the Thug offers and it does that without using the meta favorite Ballistics. (granted PPC meta was not very long ago)

We currently don't have any assault mechs that can mount ballistics in separate limbs--namely things like dual Gauss or AC/40. The Mauler would mix things up quite a bit.

[FireSlade]

Odanan, on 12 November 2013 - 02:15 PM, said:

Diversity? The Thug is just an Awesome with different looks.
And it has very uniform variants. And it's not even an important/iconic/common mech.

BTW, ballistics FTW!

With looks it is different in that it uses chicken walker legs and since we will never get a Warhammer we may as well get a better Warhammer

Sarna said:

Warhammer - The Thug was designed to be a better Warhammer.

FupDup, on 12 November 2013 - 02:28 PM, said:

We currently don't have any assault mechs that can mount ballistics in separate limbs--namely things like dual Gauss or AC/40. The Mauler would mix things up quite a bit.

With ballistics the way they are currently; [sarcasm] yeah we really need an AC40, dual Gauss, 4 AC5s/UAC5s that can take all the downsides of the Jagermech and toss them out the window. [/sarcasm] Problem with ballistics at the moment is they pack too much punch, with high ROF, and pinpoint damage with weight, crit slots, and ammo being the downside. Hell an AC2 that weighs the same will almost do the same damage as a PPC in the same cool down and will out DPS it easily. Once PGI fixes the ballistics balance, I would love to have mechs like the Mauler and King Crab in MWO but if PGI adds them before then they will become the new meta and they will be the only mechs that you see (sort of like the Jagermech).

[Strum Wealh]

FupDup, on 12 November 2013 - 02:28 PM, said:

We currently don't have any assault mechs that can mount ballistics in separate limbs--namely things like dual Gauss or AC/40. The Mauler would mix things up quite a bit.

Except for the point that the only Mauler variant that mounts ballistics in the limbs is the MAL-3R, which isn't available until 3062 (with PGI's answer to questions #13 and #43 in ATD 50 showing that they are still using the BattleTech timeline to determine which 'Mechs and weapons are available in MWO); all of the other Maulers (and the not-Maulers, the Daboku and the Linesman) only mount energy weapons in their arms & house their ballistic hardpoints in the side-torsi (together with the missile launchers).
Additionally, the Mauler doesn't have three in-timeline variants (which is a necessity for MWO's current pilot tree system) until 3060, so it's not likely to be implemented unless and until PGI executes an in-game time-skip (or changes the pilot tree system to something that doesn't require leveling up three separate variants).

Moreover, PGI had the chance to do a multi-ballistic assault with the Victor (as the VTR-9A would have had at least one ballistic hardpoint in the Right Arm (together with no Lower Arm Actuator) and at least one ballistic hardpoint in the Left Torso, and the VTR-9A1 would have had at least one ballistic hardpoint in the Right Arm (together with no Lower Arm Actuator) and at least one ballistic hardpoint in each side-torso (for the MGs moved up from the legs, as was done for the CDA-3C)), and (probably deliberately, IMO) did not take it - which, IMO, is telling.

As an additional option, PGI could implement the Hatamoto-Chi:

• HTM-27T - x2 PPCs (one in each arm) & x2 SRM-6s (one in each side-torso)
  
• HTM-27U - x2 PPCs (one in each arm) & x4 Medium Pulse Lasers (two in each side-torso)
  
• HTM-27W - x2 PPCs (one in each arm) & x1 AC/5 (in the Right Torso)
  
• the Hero Variant modeled on Daniel Sorenson's personal Hatamoto-Chi loadout (with all of the "prototype" equipment replaced with the normal versions) - x2 LB 10-X ACs (one in each arm) & x2 SRM-4s (one in each side-torso)

All variants have Lower Arm Actuators in both arms, and all variants have a Hand Actuator in the Right Arm.
None of the variants aside from the HTM-28T (not available until 3059) are jump-capable.
All of the standard variants come with a 320 STD Engine, Endo-Steel skeleton, DHS, and CASE.
The Sorenson variant comes with a 320 STD Engine, Endo-Steel skeleton, SHS, and CASE.

Thoughts?

[Inglix]

FireSlade, on 12 November 2013 - 02:43 PM, said:

With looks it is different in that it uses chicken walker legs and since we will never get a Warhammer we may as well get a better Warhammer

Part of the reason I like the Thug is the looks. It just looks, different, quasi-humanoid. Same reason I like the Black Knight, but for the other reason. They went far more human with it.

[SgtMagor]

with a Mauler that looks this sweet, come on Dev;s make it happen, oh don't forget the Banshee.

[Odanan]

Strum Wealh, on 12 November 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:

Except for the point that the only Mauler variant that mounts ballistics in the limbs is the MAL-3R, which isn't available until 3062 (with PGI's answer to questions #13 and #43 in ATD 50 showing that they are still using the BattleTech timeline to determine which 'Mechs and weapons are available in MWO); all of the other Maulers (and the not-Maulers, the Daboku and the Linesman) only mount energy weapons in their arms & house their ballistic hardpoints in the side-torsi (together with the missile launchers).
Additionally, the Mauler doesn't have three in-timeline variants (which is a necessity for MWO's current pilot tree system) until 3060, so it's not likely to be implemented unless and until PGI executes an in-game time-skip (or changes the pilot tree system to something that doesn't require leveling up three separate variants).

Moreover, PGI had the chance to do a multi-ballistic assault with the Victor (as the VTR-9A would have had at least one ballistic hardpoint in the Right Arm (together with no Lower Arm Actuator) and at least one ballistic hardpoint in the Left Torso, and the VTR-9A1 would have had at least one ballistic hardpoint in the Right Arm (together with no Lower Arm Actuator) and at least one ballistic hardpoint in each side-torso (for the MGs moved up from the legs, as was done for the CDA-3C)), and (probably deliberately, IMO) did not take it - which, IMO, is telling.

It is telling. They refused to sell huge numbers of MC's Victors - so they must really believe that dual Gauss or AC/20s is too strong.

Strum Wealh, on 12 November 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:

Hatamoto-Chi

Thoughts?

First Banshee. Then Cyclops. Then Zeus. Then Annihilator (too OP for the game, tough). Then King Crab. Then Hatamoto.
Of course I would trade all of them for a Mauler like that fan art...

[Strum Wealh]

Odanan, on 12 November 2013 - 03:37 AM, said:

So, what I understood is: they won't have MASC ready for April, 2014, so we will get a new Light Mech instead of the Flea.

Firestarter or Urbanmech, definitely. (Firestarter more likely)

And them, in May, the Banshee.

Who wants to make a bet?

BTW, have you guys read the OP lately? Isn't it a masterpiece?

IMO, the Javelin is far more likely to show up than the UrbanMech, and (IMO) is at least on par with the Firestarter in terms of likelihood.

• "Humanoid"? Very much so.
  
• "Controversial"? With two of the three available variants (specifically, the JVN-10N & JVN-10P) being missile-boats and the remaining variant (the JVN-10F) being an energy boat, and all of the variants having all of their weapons in the side-torsi, they would indeed be quite "controversial".
  
• "Specialist"? Two of the three variants can only carry a combination of LRMs, SRMs, and Streak SRMs, while the remaining variant can only carry a combination of Lasers, Pulse Lasers, PPCs, and Flamers - and with a maximum weight of only 30 tons, there isn't much room for diversification and multi-role armaments (or even terribly heavy armaments) and the armor and speed needed to survive for any meaningful period on the field.

And, notably, implementation of the Javelin would not require overhauling the MWO's Engine system (necessary to make the UrbanMech work), and the Javelin is less able to be pushed too far outside of its design purpose than the Firestarter (where, as has been noted by others, the Flamers would in many cases be immediately switched out for Medium Lasers) while still being just as fast and also jump-capable.

[FupDup]

Strum Wealh, on 12 November 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:

Except for the point that the only Mauler variant that mounts ballistics in the limbs is the MAL-3R, which isn't available until 3062 (with PGI's answer to questions #13 and #43 in ATD 50 showing that they are still using the BattleTech timeline to determine which 'Mechs and weapons are available in MWO); all of the other Maulers (and the not-Maulers, the Daboku and the Linesman) only mount energy weapons in their arms & house their ballistic hardpoints in the side-torsi (together with the missile launchers)....

When I said "limbs" I didn't mean literally arms, I mean "general body parts." You know, as in the two torso halves, which counts as "split" (instead of all in one place like current assaults). Word choice fail on my part.

Edited by FupDup, 12 November 2013 - 05:16 PM.

[FireSlade]

Odanan, on 12 November 2013 - 04:33 PM, said:

It is telling. They refused to sell huge numbers of MC's Victors - so they must really believe that dual Gauss or AC/20s is too strong.

First Banshee. Then Cyclops. Then Zeus. Then Annihilator (too OP for the game, tough). Then King Crab. Then Hatamoto.
Of course I would trade all of them for a Mauler like that fan art...

The reason the dual AC20 was never really OP was that the Jagermech is pretty fragile and did not of the tonnage for more ammo, speed, and armor. As for the Annihilator that thing will own everything and will be one of the few mechs ever on the field. Stock 4 LB-10-X and 4 MPLs will rip everything apart brawling range. Now add in endo and bring the MPLs down to MLs swap in AC10s you have an AC40 that can shoot every 2.5 seconds. PGI rarely does any forward thinking so Ghost Heat will not be a limiting factor for a patch; it will be LRMageddion all over again except with ACs.

If they ever bring the King Crab in they should at least bring the Crab in too, so that it can have its little brother.

Edited by FireSlade, 12 November 2013 - 04:59 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Odanan, on 12 November 2013 - 08:27 AM, said:

Fixing that! Thanks!

which is one more reason NOT to consider the IIC versions as continuations of the base Chassis, in most cases.

[Odanan]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 November 2013 - 05:07 PM, said:

which is one more reason NOT to consider the IIC versions as continuations of the base Chassis, in most cases.

The more the merrier?

[Strum Wealh]

FupDup, on 12 November 2013 - 04:47 PM, said:

When I said "limbs" I didn't mean literally arms, I mean "general body parts." You know, as in the two torso halves, which counts as "split" (instead of all in one place like current assaults). Word choice fail on my part.

To be fair, the post as originally written could have been read as wanting the ballistics in the arms specifically (to take advantage of either the increased responsiveness and range-of-motion afforded by actuated arms (see: CTF-4X and Ilya Muromets) or the likelihood of the weapon mounts being mounted at relatively high points on the chassis (see: Blackjack and JagerMech)), rather than simply wanting them in two separate "sections" (with a possible preference for bilateral symmetry?).

[Bishop Steiner]

Odanan, on 12 November 2013 - 05:18 PM, said:

The more the merrier?

Locust = 20 tons.
Locust IIC 25.

Griffin = 55
IIC = 40 tons.

Shadowhawk = 55 tons
IIC = 45 tons.

Phoenix Hawk = 45 tons
IIC = 80 tons

Warhammer = 70 tons
IIC = 80 tons

Marauder = 75
IIC = 85

Wolverine = 55
Conjuror (Hellhound, Wolverine IIC) = 50 tons.

Rifleman = 60 tons
IIC = 65 tons.

Beowulf, WOlfhound, Ostcscout, Stinger and TBolt IIC don't even exist yet.

So half or more either don't exist in timeline, or are so radically different from the original to not really be that mech (aka not even the same weight).

Others, like the Hunchback, Wyvern, Commando and such do basically appear to be upgraded chassis. But the issue is that the original versions basically don't exist in Clan space. So the 3 per pilot tree order simply does not work. Why would a Clanner be forced to drive a pathetic IS mech to master his Clan Mech?

I would like to see them in, but as stand alone chassis. The Clans will need a totally differing pilot progression model anyhow.

[Strum Wealh]

Odanan, on 12 November 2013 - 04:33 PM, said:

First Banshee. Then Cyclops. Then Zeus. Then Annihilator (too OP for the game, tough). Then King Crab. Then Hatamoto.
Of course I would trade all of them for a Mauler like that fan art...

• The Banshee is effectively the only IS 'Mech that can currently fill the 95-ton slot in the weight listing.
  
• The Cyclops thematically/symbolically fills the role of assault-class EWAR/C2 specialist, but the mechanics that allowed the Cyclops to do this in its stock configurations in BattleTech largely do not exist in MWO - negating a large part of the 'Mech's raison d'être and thus much of the impetus for its implementation.
  
• The Annihilator and the King Crab, for reasons previously discussed at length (some of which are currently included in this thread's opening post), seem unlikely to be slated for near-term implementation.
  
• The Zeus and the Hatamoto-Chi are nearly equally-iconic for their respective factions, and (as a result of the hardpoint restrictions arising from their stock layouts) fill very different niches despite being of the same mass.

Moreover, the overlap between the Hatamoto-Chi and the Awesome can be controlled through variant selection and hardpoint distribution (as well as differing twist and elevation limits for the torsos and arms), such that the two become competitors that are different from one another without either being strictly superior to the other.