Thank you wanderer for this effort.
But frankly since both sides ride on a wave of triumphalism and shitpost induced nerdrage I don´t think this will lead to anywhere.
1
So, Kurita And Marik Are Having Some Issues:
Started by wanderer, Feb 18 2015 11:16 PM
166 replies to this topic
#42
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- Mercenary
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Posted 19 February 2015 - 03:02 AM
Nice post Wanderer and more than welcome to those that think that words of peace are never spoken futile.
Im sure every Kuritan that knows how a samurai has to behave will honour your house and your efforts as a mediator.At least I for my part do.
No doubt every Kuritan will gladly leap into battle with Marik if they wish to continue attacking, but im sure there would be even better enemys to keep our Samurai battlehardened and our swords sharp.
To the matter:
In my opinion the latest attack of Marik was unprovoked and unnecessary. It even did lack a declaration of war. I know it was mercs who did expand the wormhole in the fist place, but they did unter Mariks flag. We entrusted our worlds to Marik and got betrayed. So taking back those worlds was necessary and arranged with Marik. Still houseunits did defend those unrightful gained worlds and now even attacked our own one. The betrayal in all those actions is strong. There were wars fought on way less than this.
On the other side Marik brings up harsh words as an explanation for the war and the accusation that we don´t fight Clans so they have to defend Earth by taking our worlds.
So in all seriousness, who has more reason to start a war?
Still it was Marik who did.
But even if there are plenty reasons for a war, one point is for sure. If we fight each other the Clans will profit greatly. Marik can ignore that because they don´t have borders with clans but they should then stop to complain that we don´t fight Clans (which isn´t true). We are fighting at our Clanborders for all IS and all we get back for that from the southern houses (except Liao) is the accusation that we don´t do it severe enough. First Davion attacked us while we were trying to handle the Clans, now even Marik is.
As a Samurai i say the more enemys out there, the more honour to be gained.
But as a citizen of the IS i say stop that or we all will pay.
*performs a 45° bow towards wanderer and sits down to listen to others that want to speak*
Im sure every Kuritan that knows how a samurai has to behave will honour your house and your efforts as a mediator.At least I for my part do.
No doubt every Kuritan will gladly leap into battle with Marik if they wish to continue attacking, but im sure there would be even better enemys to keep our Samurai battlehardened and our swords sharp.
To the matter:
In my opinion the latest attack of Marik was unprovoked and unnecessary. It even did lack a declaration of war. I know it was mercs who did expand the wormhole in the fist place, but they did unter Mariks flag. We entrusted our worlds to Marik and got betrayed. So taking back those worlds was necessary and arranged with Marik. Still houseunits did defend those unrightful gained worlds and now even attacked our own one. The betrayal in all those actions is strong. There were wars fought on way less than this.
On the other side Marik brings up harsh words as an explanation for the war and the accusation that we don´t fight Clans so they have to defend Earth by taking our worlds.
So in all seriousness, who has more reason to start a war?
Still it was Marik who did.
But even if there are plenty reasons for a war, one point is for sure. If we fight each other the Clans will profit greatly. Marik can ignore that because they don´t have borders with clans but they should then stop to complain that we don´t fight Clans (which isn´t true). We are fighting at our Clanborders for all IS and all we get back for that from the southern houses (except Liao) is the accusation that we don´t do it severe enough. First Davion attacked us while we were trying to handle the Clans, now even Marik is.
As a Samurai i say the more enemys out there, the more honour to be gained.
But as a citizen of the IS i say stop that or we all will pay.
*performs a 45° bow towards wanderer and sits down to listen to others that want to speak*
Edited by Der Hesse, 19 February 2015 - 03:04 AM.
#43
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Posted 19 February 2015 - 03:40 AM
Thank you for your efforts at diplomacy, honorable Liao. Out of common courtesy, lets keep the flaming out of their thread here. If anyone wants to shitpost, the other thread is still going, please keep it there.
From my point of view the friction between Marik and Kurita has been building for about a week now, maybe a little longer. It seems to be mainly driven by percieved slights from both sides and anger at Kurita for not conforming to the interests and goals of others. Most of this could have been avoided if we all had skin thicker than a joint paper.
Prior to this 1-2 week period, we always had a decent relationship with Marik. We didn't bother them, they didn't bother us. And we even agreed to let them open a front into our territory through the wormhole anomaly when it popped up, to see if the lolgarithm would take them north to a clan front. We specifically told people to ignore our Marik visitors. One night I even remember syncing with them to help them take our planet before ceasefire.
But after a long period of the wormhole front not advancing anywhere near the clans, and some mercs going rogue on attacking our planets, it was decided that the wormhole had to go. As it was agreed upon they would allow us to reclaim our planets, just as we allowed them to take them in the first place. Mariks knew we were closing the wormhole, and we believe we had every right to do so.
But last night, out of the clear blue sky above left field, we were attacked by four 12 mans on our Marik front. The only reason it sparked as much fire as it did was because of the friction built up over the last 2 weeks, based almost entirely on forum posts and Kurita's lack of any desire to be part of a star league. That friction combined with a sense of betrayal turned us into vicious ****** while we mopped up on our planet, and capped theirs. Forum war ensued.
After the wormhole is gone, we can go back to fighting CSJ and Davion. If others are willing, it will be like this never happened. We typically only have 2, 3 tops, loyalist Kurita 12 mans playing during the NA attack phase on any given night. We have merc units that come and go, but outside of a few exceptions they don't coordinate much with us or get in our teamspeak. What I'm getting at is if we are occupied with all our units on our southern borders the CSJ advance will start up all over again, which is exactly what everyone in the IS south says they don't want. But make no mistake, our epeens are large and we would gladly ignore the clans if someone wants to keep poking us in the eye and spitting on our shoes.
And, inb4 "you guys just ignore the clans already" qq. Lets run this back. When FRR was getting smashed the first time, and all the mercs swapped there from clans. At that time Steiner, FRR, and Kurita were all gaining territory. Clan Wolf gave up for a while, Jade falcon was losing to steiner, FRR and the mercs were beating up ghost bear, and since ghost bear was tied up, Kurita was steamrolling CSJ. This was back when there was only 1 ceasefire a day. I recall alot of clan qq on the forums at that time. But then the clans got all the big c-bill/loyalty boosts (and this next part is important) at the SAME TIME it became 3-a-day attack phases. Many many mercs went clans at this time, and alot of players for all factions picked up again after that patch. With their insanely higher population combined with triple the attack phase, we were losing planets at double or triple the rate that was previously even possible. One or two or even three 12 mans, if we had had enough then to make 3, was not anywhere near enough to make a difference on 2 stacked clan fronts. And we certainly tried for a week. But overwhelming numbers and clogged queues didn't help.
This was the only time Kurita loyalist units ever ignored the clan front. Ever since the population balanced back out, with mercs moving back to IS, and Kurita building up some more good loyalist participation (<3 NKVA, ARKB), the clan advance into our territory has stopped. It shifts back and forth a bit, but they are no closer to Terra than they were when the merc contracts ran out. If there is clan planet we can make a difference on before ceasefire, we drop there. If they are all the way capped with only and hour left till ceasefire, we let it go and come back to fight another day. After ceasefire, we usually just go where ever we can farm c-bills. Sometimes that was the pug groups that Mischief valiantly leads in davion territory late at night but attacking the clans is usually a safe bet as well, and we have done plenty of both. So please stop complaining about us not fighting clans. I can gaurantee I've slaughtered more vatborn scum than any one of you who has spent their entire CW contract-life in the galactic south.
Whatever happens, happens. But if Kurita can focus it's loyalist units, and our cooperating merc allies, on 2 fronts you don't need to worry about CSJ getting anywhere near Terra unless they get a shitload of merc help again.
From my point of view the friction between Marik and Kurita has been building for about a week now, maybe a little longer. It seems to be mainly driven by percieved slights from both sides and anger at Kurita for not conforming to the interests and goals of others. Most of this could have been avoided if we all had skin thicker than a joint paper.
Prior to this 1-2 week period, we always had a decent relationship with Marik. We didn't bother them, they didn't bother us. And we even agreed to let them open a front into our territory through the wormhole anomaly when it popped up, to see if the lolgarithm would take them north to a clan front. We specifically told people to ignore our Marik visitors. One night I even remember syncing with them to help them take our planet before ceasefire.
But after a long period of the wormhole front not advancing anywhere near the clans, and some mercs going rogue on attacking our planets, it was decided that the wormhole had to go. As it was agreed upon they would allow us to reclaim our planets, just as we allowed them to take them in the first place. Mariks knew we were closing the wormhole, and we believe we had every right to do so.
But last night, out of the clear blue sky above left field, we were attacked by four 12 mans on our Marik front. The only reason it sparked as much fire as it did was because of the friction built up over the last 2 weeks, based almost entirely on forum posts and Kurita's lack of any desire to be part of a star league. That friction combined with a sense of betrayal turned us into vicious ****** while we mopped up on our planet, and capped theirs. Forum war ensued.
After the wormhole is gone, we can go back to fighting CSJ and Davion. If others are willing, it will be like this never happened. We typically only have 2, 3 tops, loyalist Kurita 12 mans playing during the NA attack phase on any given night. We have merc units that come and go, but outside of a few exceptions they don't coordinate much with us or get in our teamspeak. What I'm getting at is if we are occupied with all our units on our southern borders the CSJ advance will start up all over again, which is exactly what everyone in the IS south says they don't want. But make no mistake, our epeens are large and we would gladly ignore the clans if someone wants to keep poking us in the eye and spitting on our shoes.
And, inb4 "you guys just ignore the clans already" qq. Lets run this back. When FRR was getting smashed the first time, and all the mercs swapped there from clans. At that time Steiner, FRR, and Kurita were all gaining territory. Clan Wolf gave up for a while, Jade falcon was losing to steiner, FRR and the mercs were beating up ghost bear, and since ghost bear was tied up, Kurita was steamrolling CSJ. This was back when there was only 1 ceasefire a day. I recall alot of clan qq on the forums at that time. But then the clans got all the big c-bill/loyalty boosts (and this next part is important) at the SAME TIME it became 3-a-day attack phases. Many many mercs went clans at this time, and alot of players for all factions picked up again after that patch. With their insanely higher population combined with triple the attack phase, we were losing planets at double or triple the rate that was previously even possible. One or two or even three 12 mans, if we had had enough then to make 3, was not anywhere near enough to make a difference on 2 stacked clan fronts. And we certainly tried for a week. But overwhelming numbers and clogged queues didn't help.
This was the only time Kurita loyalist units ever ignored the clan front. Ever since the population balanced back out, with mercs moving back to IS, and Kurita building up some more good loyalist participation (<3 NKVA, ARKB), the clan advance into our territory has stopped. It shifts back and forth a bit, but they are no closer to Terra than they were when the merc contracts ran out. If there is clan planet we can make a difference on before ceasefire, we drop there. If they are all the way capped with only and hour left till ceasefire, we let it go and come back to fight another day. After ceasefire, we usually just go where ever we can farm c-bills. Sometimes that was the pug groups that Mischief valiantly leads in davion territory late at night but attacking the clans is usually a safe bet as well, and we have done plenty of both. So please stop complaining about us not fighting clans. I can gaurantee I've slaughtered more vatborn scum than any one of you who has spent their entire CW contract-life in the galactic south.
Whatever happens, happens. But if Kurita can focus it's loyalist units, and our cooperating merc allies, on 2 fronts you don't need to worry about CSJ getting anywhere near Terra unless they get a shitload of merc help again.
Edited by LoklanZFG, 19 February 2015 - 03:57 AM.
#44
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Posted 19 February 2015 - 03:45 AM
dervishx5, on 19 February 2015 - 12:35 AM, said:
Only Dervish can go to Luthien.
I'm willing to talk this out, but I wont pretend I speak for any Mariks in general. I have a lot of experience running and designing mechwarrior leagues. I also have a lot of experience with trolling.
But if I need to step in to be ambassador to Kurita, I don't see anyone else more qualified/willing. PM me your teamspeak info and we'll talk.
I'm willing to talk this out, but I wont pretend I speak for any Mariks in general. I have a lot of experience running and designing mechwarrior leagues. I also have a lot of experience with trolling.
But if I need to step in to be ambassador to Kurita, I don't see anyone else more qualified/willing. PM me your teamspeak info and we'll talk.
And you might want to try farther south than luthien if you want to come say hi. It's still a little rough up that way.
Edited by LoklanZFG, 19 February 2015 - 03:46 AM.
#45
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- The Butcher
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Posted 19 February 2015 - 04:53 AM
Settle my friends, let us drink this Baijiu as brothers and sisters in arms against our true enemies, that of the DavRat and the Lyran Dog.
There is much to celebrate, many planets to take.
If negotiations must commence over old holdings, then so be it, but we do so with glasses in hand and smiles on our faces.
No need to bicker over what is rightfully yours, plenty of Rat and Dog to chew on amongst us all.
Cheers!
~ Dung (CO 4th Tau Ceti Rangers)
There is much to celebrate, many planets to take.
If negotiations must commence over old holdings, then so be it, but we do so with glasses in hand and smiles on our faces.
No need to bicker over what is rightfully yours, plenty of Rat and Dog to chew on amongst us all.
Cheers!
~ Dung (CO 4th Tau Ceti Rangers)
#46
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- Little Helper
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Posted 19 February 2015 - 05:13 AM
One year dungeon! All of you!
#47
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Posted 19 February 2015 - 05:43 AM
Onmyoudo, on 19 February 2015 - 12:09 AM, said:
Be interesting to see Liao's take on events re how Marik treats it's allies when it decides it wants to take their worlds. Hopefully they won't decide to treat you the same way, eh?
If I were Liao I'd pray that marik attacked, they're TERRIBLE
#48
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Posted 19 February 2015 - 06:53 AM
Well, sometimes it needs a thunderstorm to clear the air.
#49
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- LIEUTENANT, JUNIOR GRADE
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Posted 19 February 2015 - 06:53 AM
Der Hesse, on 19 February 2015 - 03:02 AM, said:
It even did lack a declaration of war.
For this part, I apologize, not that it's really my place to apologize there but there seems little else in the way of communication right now.
Ilithi had been drafting a declaration of war, and not even that. It was a list of grievances and a final call to attempt to meet and resolve them. Then leadership dragged their feet on policy, and so any decision to actually post it, and then suddenly a bunch of people were rallied on your border. I left for work yesterday in the middle of a discussion on that very document, which should have been complete and delivered a week ago, but, you know feet dragging. In two threads, it was generally agreed upon that if we felt sufficiently slighted to start a conflict, we wouldn't do it in the manner it happened. When I came home, I was being yelled at to get on Teamspeak and drop.
I don't know who's fault that is, but the majority of Marik, regardless of some support for hostilities over this or that, did not support the manner in which it happened.
Edited by Catamount, 19 February 2015 - 07:01 AM.
#50
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Posted 19 February 2015 - 07:08 AM
Catamount, on 19 February 2015 - 06:53 AM, said:
I don't know who's fault that is, but the majority of Marik, regardless of some support for hostilities over this or that, did not support the manner in which it happened.
I still don't know what's going on, and I haven't for more than a week
I can only guess what's going on based on the volume and direction of the ****-posting. A week ago it was mostly directed towards Davion so that means Kurita and Marik were allied. Now it's being directed towards each other. ****-posting is my only weather vane.
#51
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Posted 19 February 2015 - 07:15 AM
SteelWarrior, on 19 February 2015 - 01:01 AM, said:
Simple solution. We close worm hole (only 2 planets left) with or without Mariks permission, and the issue is over unless Marik wants to cut a path through Davion to our space, and in that event, we hand them their asses until they go away. Really not an issue. But i for one appreciate Liaos love 
I should point out that when there was only one world, Moore, you couldn't attack it. The wormhole is probably open for good until it is contiguous with Marik Space. Then it will probably be closable. Sort of the same way there will probably be one attack corridor for Steiner/Davion even if Marik totally surrounds Terra.
#52
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- The Defiant
- 221 posts
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Posted 19 February 2015 - 07:47 AM
Ok so here is my take on the whole situation.
The whole Kurita/Marik mess started around the time of the first attempted formation of the New Star League.. The problem was due to lack of due diligence on the party who was starting the New Star League, there was little thought about creating diplomatic relations to the northern houses prior to the meeting in securing the alliances well in advance of the first meeting. Now take into account that the New Star League did not openly engage discussion with Kurita prior to this, and that Marik Merc units decided to go to Kurita to fight the clans on behalf of not so much Kurita, but more so for nSL and Marik to a small extent. Then Kurita basically says that after talking to their council they decided that being part of this nSL was not for them, for whatever reason, and the **** hits the fan. Suddenly , Kurita is the bad guy for wanting in on a NSL that a Marik representative pushed for. Marik and Kurita both start spewing allegations and insults at each other ( some of which are true, others that are not ) and tempers go wild. Meanwhile Davion units are loving this, they went from getting beaten on three sides, to now just one. Other than MS when with Marik, Davion/Marik borders have been quiet, Kurita due to not accepting the nSL proposal has seen a lot of Merc units leave , thus their attention is solely on clans, not Davion.
The one who makes out in this is not Kurita or Marik or even Liao for that matter. FRR will only be around until the Merc units leave, so they do not win long term. Meanwhile Davion is waiting for their numerous Merc units to go back to Davion, right now Liao has been gaining some territory, but when groups like ACES go back to Davion you can rest assured that Liao will feel Davions full onslaught , and now with Kurita and Marik bickering and not focusing on Davion, it means they have more time to accomplish this.
The whole Kurita/Marik mess started around the time of the first attempted formation of the New Star League.. The problem was due to lack of due diligence on the party who was starting the New Star League, there was little thought about creating diplomatic relations to the northern houses prior to the meeting in securing the alliances well in advance of the first meeting. Now take into account that the New Star League did not openly engage discussion with Kurita prior to this, and that Marik Merc units decided to go to Kurita to fight the clans on behalf of not so much Kurita, but more so for nSL and Marik to a small extent. Then Kurita basically says that after talking to their council they decided that being part of this nSL was not for them, for whatever reason, and the **** hits the fan. Suddenly , Kurita is the bad guy for wanting in on a NSL that a Marik representative pushed for. Marik and Kurita both start spewing allegations and insults at each other ( some of which are true, others that are not ) and tempers go wild. Meanwhile Davion units are loving this, they went from getting beaten on three sides, to now just one. Other than MS when with Marik, Davion/Marik borders have been quiet, Kurita due to not accepting the nSL proposal has seen a lot of Merc units leave , thus their attention is solely on clans, not Davion.
The one who makes out in this is not Kurita or Marik or even Liao for that matter. FRR will only be around until the Merc units leave, so they do not win long term. Meanwhile Davion is waiting for their numerous Merc units to go back to Davion, right now Liao has been gaining some territory, but when groups like ACES go back to Davion you can rest assured that Liao will feel Davions full onslaught , and now with Kurita and Marik bickering and not focusing on Davion, it means they have more time to accomplish this.
#53
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- Rage
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Posted 19 February 2015 - 08:01 AM
Where did things in Kurita start to go sour? For me, it started here:
http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__4182317
and then this thread happened.
http://mwomercs.com/...marik-invasion/
http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__4182317
and then this thread happened.
http://mwomercs.com/...marik-invasion/
#54
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Posted 19 February 2015 - 08:01 AM
As an impartial observer with absolutely no stake in this whatsoever, I recommend Liao, Marik, and Kurita all attack one another and settle this dispute. Clearly your differences is irreconcilable.
#55
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Posted 19 February 2015 - 08:08 AM
Dawnstealer, on 19 February 2015 - 08:01 AM, said:
As an impartial observer with absolutely no stake in this whatsoever, I recommend Liao, Marik, and Kurita all attack one another and settle this dispute. Clearly your differences is irreconcilable.
I don't think there's anyone in this game that could pass the 'evil mastermind' entrance exam let alone get into the henchman's guild.
#56
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- Bridesmaid
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Posted 19 February 2015 - 08:49 AM
Catamount, on 19 February 2015 - 06:53 AM, said:
For this part, I apologize, not that it's really my place to apologize there but there seems little else in the way of communication right now.
Ilithi had been drafting a declaration of war, and not even that. It was a list of grievances and a final call to attempt to meet and resolve them. Then leadership dragged their feet on policy, and so any decision to actually post it, and then suddenly a bunch of people were rallied on your border. I left for work yesterday in the middle of a discussion on that very document, which should have been complete and delivered a week ago, but, you know feet dragging. In two threads, it was generally agreed upon that if we felt sufficiently slighted to start a conflict, we wouldn't do it in the manner it happened. When I came home, I was being yelled at to get on Teamspeak and drop.
I don't know who's fault that is, but the majority of Marik, regardless of some support for hostilities over this or that, did not support the manner in which it happened.
Someone made a 'List of Greviances' to present about MWO forumposting?
Oh boy.
#57
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- Mercenary
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Posted 19 February 2015 - 08:51 AM
Kjudoon, on 19 February 2015 - 08:08 AM, said:
I don't think there's anyone in this game that could pass the 'evil mastermind' entrance exam let alone get into the henchman's guild.
#58
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- IS Exemplar
- 328 posts
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Posted 19 February 2015 - 10:11 AM
I'm going to do something I don't normally do and speak on behalf of Night's Scorn ]NS[ here. We considered that things had been going quite smoothly enough with House Kurita CW, in that Davion aggression has been present but not intense, the clans have let up on their assault, not too willing to take Kuritan ground as a lot of their attention is focused towards FRR. It is important to say, Night's Scorn is in fact now and always has been a Mercenary unit with strong loyalty to the Draconis Combine. You may notice our sub-text "The Dragon's Disavowed", as Night Stalkers are in fact unaffiliated cast-outs in the lore. We have options that we can always entertain thanks to our autonomy.
Painfully serious here. We were very close to a decision to begin a contract, 7 or 14 days, to Free Rasalhague Republic in order to better spread Inner Sphere resistance and help the tattered faction to truly start to regain ground. Several of us were really looking forward to meeting the FRR Loyalists and playing against new foes and new tactics vs Clan Jade Falcon and Clan Wolf.
All of this discussion in our unit about such possible temporary move immediately stopped when we realized that we were under attack from Marik of all things. We can no longer offer support out that far when we have a new threat to deal with. Please, continue with diplomacy and carry on with discussions here but understand going forward that this has probably indirectly cost FRR a valuable boost.
Painfully serious here. We were very close to a decision to begin a contract, 7 or 14 days, to Free Rasalhague Republic in order to better spread Inner Sphere resistance and help the tattered faction to truly start to regain ground. Several of us were really looking forward to meeting the FRR Loyalists and playing against new foes and new tactics vs Clan Jade Falcon and Clan Wolf.
All of this discussion in our unit about such possible temporary move immediately stopped when we realized that we were under attack from Marik of all things. We can no longer offer support out that far when we have a new threat to deal with. Please, continue with diplomacy and carry on with discussions here but understand going forward that this has probably indirectly cost FRR a valuable boost.
#60
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- LIEUTENANT, JUNIOR GRADE
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Posted 19 February 2015 - 10:28 AM
PerfectDuck, on 19 February 2015 - 10:11 AM, said:
I'm going to do something I don't normally do and speak on behalf of Night's Scorn ]NS[ here. We considered that things had been going quite smoothly enough with House Kurita CW, in that Davion aggression has been present but not intense, the clans have let up on their assault, not too willing to take Kuritan ground as a lot of their attention is focused towards FRR. It is important to say, Night's Scorn is in fact now and always has been a Mercenary unit with strong loyalty to the Draconis Combine. You may notice our sub-text "The Dragon's Disavowed", as Night Stalkers are in fact unaffiliated cast-outs in the lore. We have options that we can always entertain thanks to our autonomy.
Painfully serious here. We were very close to a decision to begin a contract, 7 or 14 days, to Free Rasalhague Republic in order to better spread Inner Sphere resistance and help the tattered faction to truly start to regain ground. Several of us were really looking forward to meeting the FRR Loyalists and playing against new foes and new tactics vs Clan Jade Falcon and Clan Wolf.
All of this discussion in our unit about such possible temporary move immediately stopped when we realized that we were under attack from Marik of all things. We can no longer offer support out that far when we have a new threat to deal with. Please, continue with diplomacy and carry on with discussions here but understand going forward that this has probably indirectly cost FRR a valuable boost.
Painfully serious here. We were very close to a decision to begin a contract, 7 or 14 days, to Free Rasalhague Republic in order to better spread Inner Sphere resistance and help the tattered faction to truly start to regain ground. Several of us were really looking forward to meeting the FRR Loyalists and playing against new foes and new tactics vs Clan Jade Falcon and Clan Wolf.
All of this discussion in our unit about such possible temporary move immediately stopped when we realized that we were under attack from Marik of all things. We can no longer offer support out that far when we have a new threat to deal with. Please, continue with diplomacy and carry on with discussions here but understand going forward that this has probably indirectly cost FRR a valuable boost.
These are things that could have been discussed and happened had the situation moved forward the way it was supposed to.
For our part we never attempted to host a conversation and make it seriously clear that we had things we were unhappy about. For your part, you never made us aware of any such coming deal to assist the FRR. The fact that it's being mentioned after-the-fact suggests to me that while NS is very much worth engaging, you may need to appoint someone else to be responsible for it on you end. On the flip side, of the two people I'd first put up to engage on our side, zero of two are here, or have engaged in any forum communication, or any TS communication I'm aware of.
Edited by Catamount, 19 February 2015 - 10:28 AM.
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