256 replies to this topic

[Pjwned]

Mystere, on 24 April 2015 - 03:54 PM, said:

Go check the archives. There are more than a few of them.

That's not what I remember but I'm not going to go through the archive to check so I won't really argue about it. Regardless of what people may or may not have said though, jumpjets shouldn't be pieces of crap for any reason really, especially when there were a number of other nerfs that remain to keep pop-tarting in check.

[kapusta11]

Yes! The gap between worthless and meta mechs was much lower back then.

[Ghogiel]

Soy, on 22 April 2015 - 08:50 PM, said:

You're wrong bro...

It is the speed nerf that killed it.

Here's a vid of 3D poptarting on the day of the worst JJ nerf that ever happened in the game.

JJs are not as bad as that currently.

So explain to me how the decrease in prevalency of poptarting wasn't moreso related to projectile speed nerf. 'Anecdotal' better not be your only argument.

Well your argument is completely anecdotal. Please gib math and stuff?

anyway they were still nerfing JJs on the TBR after the PPC speed nerf. Fast clan mechs and laser domninaton basically changed the game.

It goes like this> JJ nerf > clan OP > PPC speed change > omni JJ nerf

The JJ nerf killed the 2 best poptarters in the game HGN and VTR. So there is that. The 3D hung in there for a bit then was killed off by the TBR. Then the PPC nerf changed the team dynamic because TBRs were better used with support with the SCRs.

Edited by Ghogiel, 25 April 2015 - 07:21 AM.

[Soy]

Currently, JJs are not as bad as shown in that video.

Of course, PPCs were flying faster in that video. Which was recorded the day they patched that JJ nerf in.

Thus my statement. And it may be anecdotal, but, it's the reality.

So take from that it what you want...

[Ghogiel]

Soy, on 25 April 2015 - 07:38 AM, said:

Currently, JJs are not as bad as shown in that video.

Of course, PPCs were flying faster in that video. Which was recorded the day they patched that JJ nerf in.

Thus my statement. And it may be anecdotal, but, it's the reality.

So take from that it what you want...

The reality is the HGN was killed that day and hasn't poptarted since.

[Soy]

rip lowlander

PS - we'll have to agree to disagree about jj nerf being a bigger deal than ppc nerf, cuz, again, i posted a video of jjs being worse than they are right now, with fast ppcs, and yet people were still tarting like maniacs... yet, currently, jjs are better than what you see in the vid, ppc projectile speed is much lower, and poptarting prevalence is way down... so... if you think jjs were ever the issue, just lol. just ******* lol (no h8 m8 gr8 b8)

Edited by Soy, 25 April 2015 - 07:49 AM.

[Rear Admiral Tier 6]

ohhhh nooo they are shooting 30 point alphas at me...what do

i hope you guys realize that a laser + gauss whale can do over 80? at almost the same range? guys?

gauss + ppc desync did its job,they are harmless if you move

[Rear Admiral Tier 6]

Ghogiel, on 25 April 2015 - 07:44 AM, said:

The reality is the HGN was killed that day and hasn't poptarted since.

Its still pretty easy to pull an 600-800 damage game in a 2 PPC 2 UAC Highlander,only thing that has changed that you cant really hit moving targets reliably at over 500 meters so that the whole 30 points hits home.You can even poptart a bit,but not as effectively as before.
Just give back the thrust on the HGN and we will see more brawling Highlanders.

And before anyone says BUT POPTARTING IS NOT BATTLETECH,read the sarna-page on Highlander,it was designed to be a gauss poptart.

[Ghogiel]

Cookiemonter669, on 25 April 2015 - 08:09 AM, said:

Its still pretty easy to pull an 600-800 damage game in a 2 PPC 2 UAC Highlander,only thing that has changed that you cant really hit moving targets reliably at over 500 meters so that the whole 30 points hits home.You can even poptart a bit,but not as effectively as before.
Just give back the thrust on the HGN and we will see more brawling Highlanders.

And before anyone says BUT POPTARTING IS NOT BATTLETECH,read the sarna-page on Highlander,it was designed to be a gauss poptart.

Well yeah I would hope to be doing at least +500dmg regular, it is an 90ton assault mech after all.

[Mad Strike]

No thanks. It's lame and a cheap playstile

[Koniks]

XX Sulla XX, on 24 April 2015 - 04:28 PM, said:

Problem is PPCs are a huge problem if they work well.

Nope. They're a problem if they sync up with a low heat weapon. But only before Clan mechs and quirks.

It's not like Vindicators, BJ-3s, K2s, BLR-1Ds and 1Gs, SHD-2Ks Firebrands, or quirk v1 QKD-5Ks became the meta or even viable with their quirks. And 4 of those can poptart.

Edited by Mizeur, 25 April 2015 - 12:01 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Soy, on 25 April 2015 - 07:38 AM, said:

Currently, JJs are not as bad as shown in that video.

Of course, PPCs were flying faster in that video. Which was recorded the day they patched that JJ nerf in.

Thus my statement. And it may be anecdotal, but, it's the reality.

So take from that it what you want...

Was there no ghost heat at that point? 3 PPCs seemed awfully cool...

[Ghogiel]

Gas Guzzler, on 25 April 2015 - 12:13 PM, said:

Was there no ghost heat at that point? 3 PPCs seemed awfully cool...

there wasn't any ghost heat in 2013. Actually I think that is from around when the ghost heat came in...

Edited by Ghogiel, 25 April 2015 - 12:29 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Ghogiel, on 25 April 2015 - 12:28 PM, said:

there wasn't any ghost heat in 2013. Actually I think that is from around when the ghost heat came in...

The HGN-733P would be pretty good right now if there was no ghost heat. Too bad.

I think I started playing seriously at the end of 2013 so I never know life without ghost heat.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 25 April 2015 - 01:07 PM.

[Soy]

There was ghost heat in 2013, lol...

http://mwomercs.com/...cale-the-maths/

Seriously tho if you're not gonna talk stuff like history in a factual manner... I just...

Edited by Soy, 25 April 2015 - 05:08 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Soy, on 25 April 2015 - 05:05 PM, said:

There was ghost heat in 2013, lol...

http://mwomercs.com/...cale-the-maths/

Seriously tho if you're not gonna talk stuff like history in a factual manner... I just...

But you didn't have ghost heat when you made that video right? There is no way... it ran too cool.

[Soy]

Ghost Heat was prolly mmm, a month or two off from being implemented as we knew/know it. This balance phase was coming down the pipe in the middle of a few singular nerf bats, like HGN JJs had been hit a couple months previously I think as a 'special case' ie not every JJ mech, just HGNs cuz the point blank jump to PPC negative min range on the 4+ JJ variants.

There might've been ghost heat at like, 6 ppcs/lls or something silly offpoint around that time, but I think it was late summer early fall that they put it in officially for the first time. But it could've had an earlier part where it was like that a ceiling that was way too high, I can't remember for certain.

Also important to note JJ heat wasn't really a 'thing' at this time so that is something not being considered very much in this discussion, that extra heat means less dps cuz an extra split second here or two to cool down a bit more.

But my real point about that vid is that it shows JJs in absolute nadir of nerfage, on the day it occurred, and it was still easily skated around with solid poptarting on a proper tart build. In my opinion the projectile speed is what took the prevalency to such a high place, cuz it meant everyone was highly accurate when they shouldn't be. I am not a great aimer, that's my weakness. So how the **** should I be hitting as consistently as someone who's really really good at aiming..? Cuz projectile speed was really fast. Then throw in fact that I can move pretty ******* well, better than well almost all... then you can see where that discrepency people are talking about with poptart heyday. How should I be able to dominate people who are better aim than me if all I can do is move better. Part of it is the poppin, part of it is how powerful the build is, part of it is practice, but part of it was that you could just sling PPCs all ******* day 24/7 cuz the heat, velocity, exposure time, everything played into making it straight up ****. In current scene, I'd have to practice a lot more than I did back then (which was a lot) in order to sniff at my old accuracy. With projectile speed decreasing, reality set in on a lot of people in similar fashion, they bailed cuz they also didn't like JJ nerf in tandem, thus hitscan boulder rock current meta. Are we better off as a whole for it, yes, skillfloor is down for benefit of all in a more balanced game... but the twitch and poptarting is gone and that makes me sad cuz I think it's a more dynamic playstyle and I got more bang out of my buck rather than testing my patience humping a ridge.

Anyways I still tart, do your thing; this is a long thread.

Edited by Soy, 25 April 2015 - 05:48 PM.