338 replies to this topic

[KraftySOT]

MischiefSC, on 11 September 2015 - 01:37 PM, said:

No. At no point, ever, was IS vs Clans balanced for PvP. Clans were always there for PvE; the GM played the opposite side and used magic plot armor adjustments to keep games balanced. For PvP Clans vs IS were never, ever in any way shape or form balanced. Not by BV or special gear or anything else. It was always broke as hell which is why the introduction of the Clans produced much rage from BT fans and shot BT in the head as far as playing at cons was concerned. It was all 3025 stuff and Clan vs Clan stuff, or GM run events of players as one side and the GM playing the other (to create a false balance).

It was never, ever, in any way shape or form, by any assessment save people who wanted to play CLPL builds against IS people who knew how LOLCLOWNSHOES broken that was. It was the same discussion as how people were saying the ACH was barely equal to (if not inferior to) the FS9, even with all of its quirks.




I feel sometimes like people involved in these decisions don't actually play the same game that I do. So no weapon quirks, just flat out inferior in mobility to 'average' lights and mediums... so absolute giggle happy food opportunities for heavies and assaults?

If you run a campaign IS vs Clan with the appropriate balance options, its a pretty balanced experience. Ive done plenty in Megamek.

And from campaign to campaign the IS starts to power creep since it can customize its mechs, and clans are locked with omnipods on omni mechs, or no customization. Its pretty complex.

Two dudes in their garage playing out of the box? Never was balanced. That ill agree with.

[FupDup]

IraqiWalker, on 11 September 2015 - 01:45 PM, said:

Which has more to do with hitreg issues, than lasers being superior.

Actually I think it's more about the ratio of what you get compared to what you pay. Pewpews cost a little bit but give you a lot, while many other weapons cost more while giving the same or less.

[XX Sulla XX]

jay35, on 11 September 2015 - 01:42 PM, said:

Because reducing TTK and increasing hit points appears to be their chosen way to rebalance things, what we end up with by doing it that way is a ton of generic, boring mechs. It's a terrible end result to have crap mechs only become good by removing what makes other mechs unique (their quirks) rather than giving the subpar mechs their own unique attributes. It removes diversity and uniqueness to existing builds and to how the mechs actually play in the game.

If they left existing quirks alone and were increasing structure to help increase TTK in light of that, that's one thing. But to remove the weapon quirks that breathe diversity into this game, that's just bad, especially quirks that weren't OP and weren't directly part of the TTK problem because the mechs they were in were balanced in other ways, like the Grid Iron's glass cannon XL engine or the Huginn's limited range and Raven chassis clumsiness.

Case in point, someone mentioned:[indent]
Grid Iron has +48 IS+A in quirks on the Right Torso, on top of up to 48 armour and 24 structure that's normal. No 2x Gauss, but 72 armour, and if you have 2 rear armour, the front RT has 118 IS+A. Which is, incidently, nearly on par with the Atlas DDC, who with 5 rear armour has 121 frontloaded IS+A.[/indent]
That is such utter crap. First off, why should a hunchback be armored up that much? That's stupid. Second, they removed the only thing that made the Grid Iron unique and fun to pilot, its Gauss quirk. Now it's just another hunchback. Whoop-dee-effing-doo. Now we have a very generic hunchback that has a bunch of arbitrary structure buffs. This is taking is directly to the sea of sameness I was worried about.

Problem is it does not really help TTK much if at all. Mechs are getting lots of agility nerfs. That means you die faster. Clan weapons still have longer range and more power per weight etc. That means you still die fast.

[Sarlic]

ANNOUNCEMENT!

[Skarlock]

jay35, on 11 September 2015 - 01:42 PM, said:

That is such utter crap. First off, why should a hunchback be armored up that much? That's stupid. Second, they removed the only thing that made the Grid Iron unique and fun to pilot, its Gauss quirk. Now it's just another hunchback. Whoop-dee-effing-doo. Now we have a very generic hunchback that has a bunch of arbitrary structure buffs. This is taking is directly to the sea of sameness I was worried about.

Well, look at the bright side. At least now with mechs being way too vanilla, you'll have to spend a lot less money on the game buying mechs. Since most of them will basically be the same and fall into the "who cares?" category, you can just use that money to buy other games.

[KraftySOT]

Theres specific forums for each mech now.

Are they for real?

Expectations are rising.

[MischiefSC]

FupDup, on 11 September 2015 - 01:38 PM, said:

Heavies and assaults also have agility nerfs on some of them...it's a complete mess really. And then a Metric Fuckton™ of sensor quirks on EVERY SINGLE MECH IN THE GAME that we can barely interpret.

Oh, and only three total quirks on the Urbanmech R63. Something called heatloss, and then 2 random sensor quirks. Derp.

I'm trying to think of anything that would be less relevant to anything in any way, shape or form than sensor quriks. ECM? They mean nothing now. We're talking about tweaking a 3 second delay. 3 ******* seconds. OH MY GOD I GOT PAPERDOLL IN 1.8 SECONDS, I NOW HAVE MASSIVE OP SUPER ADVANTAGE! OH MY GOD I GOT TARGET SHOWING UP AT 1200M INSTEAD OF 1,000M! I HAVE MASSIVE OP SUPER ADVANTAGE!

Why not give it a 1% range quirk to AMS. Sensor quirks are so worthless that plug nickles laugh at them. It's beyond irrelevant. It's so far beyond irrelevant that it gets into insulting.

How about this - give lights a sensor quirk that makes the light work like a UAV; every single mech in a 360 radius of it with LoS (anything it could get even an empty dorito on) pops up as a locked target for its teammates.

THAT would be a worthwhile quirk. These? These were an utter and complete waste of time for whoever had to type them in. I want a refund on the money I gave to PGI that went to paying someone to do something so utterly and completely pointless. That or give that person an extra 30 minutes to drink a soda or watch TV as it would have been vastly more worthwhile for MW:O than these sensor quirks because at least then he might have done something useful when he got back to coding.

[IraqiWalker]

Sarlic, on 11 September 2015 - 01:46 PM, said:

ANNOUNCEMENT!

Wow, they went all out. It's own forum, and sub forums per chassis, plus Paul's great wall of text. I'll need to read that later today.

[ApolloKaras]

MischiefSC, on 11 September 2015 - 01:50 PM, said:

I'm trying to think of anything that would be less relevant to anything in any way, shape or form than sensor quriks. ECM? They mean nothing now. We're talking about tweaking a 3 second delay. 3 ******* seconds. OH MY GOD I GOT PAPERDOLL IN 1.8 SECONDS, I NOW HAVE MASSIVE OP SUPER ADVANTAGE! OH MY GOD I GOT TARGET SHOWING UP AT 1200M INSTEAD OF 1,000M! I HAVE MASSIVE OP SUPER ADVANTAGE!

Why not give it a 1% range quirk to AMS. Sensor quirks are so worthless that plug nickles laugh at them. It's beyond irrelevant. It's so far beyond irrelevant that it gets into insulting.

How about this - give lights a sensor quirk that makes the light work like a UAV; every single mech in a 360 radius of it with LoS (anything it could get even an empty dorito on) pops up as a locked target for its teammates.

THAT would be a worthwhile quirk. These? These were an utter and complete waste of time for whoever had to type them in. I want a refund on the money I gave to PGI that went to paying someone to do something so utterly and completely pointless. That or give that person an extra 30 minutes to drink a soda or watch TV as it would have been vastly more worthwhile for MW:O than these sensor quirks because at least then he might have done something useful when he got back to coding.

meh lets see what its like when we get in game.

[Khobai]

FupDup, on 11 September 2015 - 01:46 PM, said:

Actually I think it's more about the ratio of what you get compared to what you pay. Pewpews cost a little bit but give you a lot, while many other weapons cost more while giving the same or less.

This. Look at the CERML for example. what other weapon gives you 7 damage for 1 ton? nothing else even comes close to that. But on top of that it doesnt use ammo and has decent range? thats crazy!

[Yosharian]

Skarlock, on 11 September 2015 - 01:47 PM, said:

Well, look at the bright side. At least now with mechs being way too vanilla, you'll have to spend a lot less money on the game buying mechs. Since most of them will basically be the same and fall into the "who cares?" category, you can just use that money to buy other games.

Right, exactly! How do more people not see this??

[IraqiWalker]

KraftySOT, on 11 September 2015 - 01:49 PM, said:

Theres specific forums for each mech now.

Are they for real?

Expectations are rising.

Yes they are

[Sarlic]

Quote

Why not give it a 1% range quirk to AMS. Sensor quirks are so worthless that plug nickles laugh at them. It's beyond irrelevant. It's so far beyond irrelevant that it gets into insulting.

I agree. AMS is still underpeforming. Wish they could up the (salvo)damage, save some more tons and perhaps up the ammo count a bit again.

Edited by Sarlic, 11 September 2015 - 01:54 PM.

[MischiefSC]

KraftySOT, on 11 September 2015 - 01:45 PM, said:

If you run a campaign IS vs Clan with the appropriate balance options, its a pretty balanced experience. Ive done plenty in Megamek.

And from campaign to campaign the IS starts to power creep since it can customize its mechs, and clans are locked with omnipods on omni mechs, or no customization. Its pretty complex.

Two dudes in their garage playing out of the box? Never was balanced. That ill agree with.

Megamek was never like TT. Not in tournaments, nothing involving two players playing against each other ever worked. You try to translate that into a FPS and it's utterly unfixable broken. Like trying to push two games together.

[IraqiWalker]

Saxie, on 11 September 2015 - 01:52 PM, said:

meh lets see what its like when we get in game.

In all fairness, sensor quirks were something that the community asked for. Not to this insane degree though.

[Mike Forst]

Hey everyone. I'm still around but haven't had as much time to be on the forums lately due to having other duties to attend to. We are still reading your feedback and as some in here have said, this is a first pass on things. I can't speak directly to the methodology as I wasn't directly involved in the design of it (see the part about other duties above.)

There are quite a few changes here and I'm very interested to see how it all plays out.

[Khobai]

Quote

In all fairness, sensor quirks were something that the community asked for. Not to this insane degree though.

We did ask for light/medium mechs to be able to share sensor information farther than heavy/assaults to make the scouting aspect of the game more important. Proper sensor networking is one of those things thats come up quite a few times in the past and has always been positively upvoted by the community.

If you need a light mech to act as a "router" to transmit shared sensor data to the rest of your team it does give that light mech more of a definitive role.

Quote

I agree. AMS is still underpeforming. Wish they could up the (salvo)damage, save some more tons and perhaps up the ammo count a bit again.

AMS seems fine to me. The thing weighs 1.5 tons with ammo. So it should be marginally better than an extra double heatsink...

If only they applied that same logic to ECM. ECM should only be slightly better than a double heatsink based on its tonnage and crit usage. It should not be some gamebreaking thing.

Edited by Khobai, 11 September 2015 - 02:01 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

Sarlic, on 11 September 2015 - 01:46 PM, said:

ANNOUNCEMENT!

Khobai, on 11 September 2015 - 01:56 PM, said:

We did ask for light/medium mechs to be able to share sensor information farther than heavy/assaults to make the scouting aspect of the game more important. Proper sensor networking is one of those things thats come up quite a few times in the past and has always been positively upvoted by the community.

If you need a light mech to act as a "router" to transmit shared sensor data to the rest of your team it does give that light mech more of a definitive role.

We asked for flat sensor quirks as well. exactly like the ones in those XMLs

[Kmieciu]

Mike Forst, on 11 September 2015 - 01:54 PM, said:

Hey everyone. I'm still around but haven't had as much time to be on the forums lately due to having other duties to attend to. We are still reading your feedback and as some in here have said, this is a first pass on things. I can't speak directly to the methodology as I wasn't directly involved in the design of it (see the part about other duties above.)

There are quite a few changes here and I'm very interested to see how it all plays out.

You took away IS weapon quirks? Have you forgotten what was happening after the introduction of Clan Wave I? Clan lasers will absolutely mop the floor with IS mechs. And more structure on IS mech just means more C-bills for the clan pilots.

[Johnny Z]

Well after this goes live I will give my usual unbiased opinion on Clan vrs Inner Sphere balance.