338 replies to this topic

[ApolloKaras]

It does seem they are playing a lot with the targeting speeds.

[IraqiWalker]

MischiefSC, on 11 September 2015 - 01:30 PM, said:

I just... ugh. So much ugh.

Russ on Twitter

Quote

remember what I said this is the first look at it and there will be plenty to adjust

FupDup, on 11 September 2015 - 01:32 PM, said:

There's also agility nerfs all over the place, including on many lights and mediums. >_<

Courtesy of the whining no aim crowd that thinks lights should move as fast as an assault mech, while carrying a fraction of the armor.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 11 September 2015 - 01:34 PM.

[MischiefSC]

KraftySOT, on 11 September 2015 - 01:26 PM, said:

Well if you play with ALL the rules and ALL the swag and extra compendiums and optional rules and read all the fanzines...it was perfectly balanced.

Thats how they got you for the $$$ before Free to Play and DLCs.

You have any idea how much money it cost in the 80s to own everything there was to own for Dungeons and Dragons? Its all about packages of extended content mang.

No. At no point, ever, was IS vs Clans balanced for PvP. Clans were always there for PvE; the GM played the opposite side and used magic plot armor adjustments to keep games balanced. For PvP Clans vs IS were never, ever in any way shape or form balanced. Not by BV or special gear or anything else. It was always broke as hell which is why the introduction of the Clans produced much rage from BT fans and shot BT in the head as far as playing at cons was concerned. It was all 3025 stuff and Clan vs Clan stuff, or GM run events of players as one side and the GM playing the other (to create a false balance).

It was never, ever, in any way shape or form, by any assessment save people who wanted to play CLPL builds against IS people who knew how LOLCLOWNSHOES broken that was. It was the same discussion as how people were saying the ACH was barely equal to (if not inferior to) the FS9, even with all of its quirks.

FupDup, on 11 September 2015 - 01:32 PM, said:

There's also agility nerfs all over the place, including on many lights and mediums. >_<

I feel sometimes like people involved in these decisions don't actually play the same game that I do. So no weapon quirks, just flat out inferior in mobility to 'average' lights and mediums... so absolute giggle happy food opportunities for heavies and assaults?

[Kmieciu]

I'm gonna "test" those quirks using a 6xERML Hellbringer with 30 DHS and a targeting computer. The way I see it, there will be nothing in the IS arsenal to match this combo.
Oh, you got +40 IS on your IS mech? Well, let me just alpha one more time :-) Don't worry, I've got 94 points of heat capacity.

Edited by Kmieciu, 11 September 2015 - 01:40 PM.

[Yosharian]

*removes all weapon + heat quirks*

It's just a first pass

[XX Sulla XX]

KraftySOT, on 11 September 2015 - 01:26 PM, said:

Well if you play with ALL the rules and ALL the swag and extra compendiums and optional rules and read all the fanzines...it was perfectly balanced.

Thats how they got you for the $$$ before Free to Play and DLCs.

You have any idea how much money it cost in the 80s to own everything there was to own for Dungeons and Dragons? Its all about packages of extended content mang.

Old school analog pay to win. "Hah Im gonna beat you with my Kit Fox again." "Not this time, ive got a Hollander." "Thats not a real thing, no IS mech that small can mount a gauss rifle" "Nuh uh, look here in this TRO." "What the hell dude?!"

How we rolled.

I remember all the TT stuff adding up quick.

[FupDup]

MischiefSC, on 11 September 2015 - 01:37 PM, said:

I feel sometimes like people involved in these decisions don't actually play the same game that I do. So no weapon quirks, just flat out inferior in mobility to 'average' lights and mediums... so absolute giggle happy food opportunities for heavies and assaults?

Heavies and assaults also have agility nerfs on some of them...it's a complete mess really. And then a Metric Fuckton™ of sensor quirks on EVERY SINGLE MECH IN THE GAME that we can barely interpret.

Oh, and only three total quirks on the Urbanmech R63. Something called heatloss, and then 2 random sensor quirks. Derp.

[Johnny Z]

Night Thastus, on 11 September 2015 - 01:30 PM, said:

1/2 an hour guys!

Torch and pitchfork at the ready!

[Khobai]

it still boggles my mind how they could even contemplate adding weapon quirks to mechs before the weapons were even in a balanced state.

talk about putting the cart before the horse.

why are half the weapons still unusable? they should balance the weapons first then add quirks later.

Quote

Heavies and assaults also have agility nerfs on some of them...it's a complete mess really. And then a Metric Fuckton™ of sensor quirks on EVERY SINGLE MECH IN THE GAME that we can barely interpret.

im fine with heavies and assaults getting agility nerfs. thats been needed for a while.

but sensor quirks dont make up for an agility nerf... lol. what most assaults need is a massive CT armor buff. and a lot of heavies need ST armor buffs to protect their weapons and be able to use XL better.

Edited by Khobai, 11 September 2015 - 01:43 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

Yosharian, on 11 September 2015 - 01:37 PM, said:

*removes all weapon + heat quirks*

It's just a first pass

So? It doesn't make it not true, or bad. Unless you know something we don't.

[XX Sulla XX]

FupDup, on 11 September 2015 - 01:32 PM, said:

There's also agility nerfs all over the place, including on many lights and mediums. >_<

Yes some umm nice person at PGI things agility is the problem. The problem is Clan weapons vs currest IS weapons. Making all the mechs less agile is not the way to balace the game.

[IraqiWalker]

Khobai, on 11 September 2015 - 01:39 PM, said:

it still boggles my mind how they could even contemplate adding weapon quirks to mechs before the weapons were even in a balanced state.

talk about putting the cart before the horse.

why are half the weapons still unusable? they should balance the weapons first then add quirks later.

Only the flamer is unusable. Literally every other weapon has a use. Even the LRM 20.

[Chemie]

Kmieciu, on 11 September 2015 - 01:37 PM, said:

I'm gonna "test" those quirks using a 6xERML Hellbringer with 30 DHS and a targeting computer. The way I see it, there will be nothing in the IS arsenal to match this combo.
Oh, you got +40 IS on your IS mech? Well, let me just alpha one more time :-) Don't worry, I've got 94 points of heat capacity.

Yes but the IS mech will totally own you with those sensor quirks....he will know where to fire so much more quickly than you....oh wait....never mind....sensors quirks are near useless.

[XX Sulla XX]

MischiefSC, on 11 September 2015 - 01:37 PM, said:

No. At no point, ever, was IS vs Clans balanced for PvP. Clans were always there for PvE; the GM played the opposite side and used magic plot armor adjustments to keep games balanced. For PvP Clans vs IS were never, ever in any way shape or form balanced. Not by BV or special gear or anything else. It was always broke as hell which is why the introduction of the Clans produced much rage from BT fans and shot BT in the head as far as playing at cons was concerned. It was all 3025 stuff and Clan vs Clan stuff, or GM run events of players as one side and the GM playing the other (to create a false balance).

It was never, ever, in any way shape or form, by any assessment save people who wanted to play CLPL builds against IS people who knew how LOLCLOWNSHOES broken that was. It was the same discussion as how people were saying the ACH was barely equal to (if not inferior to) the FS9, even with all of its quirks.




I feel sometimes like people involved in these decisions don't actually play the same game that I do. So no weapon quirks, just flat out inferior in mobility to 'average' lights and mediums... so absolute giggle happy food opportunities for heavies and assaults?

Agree on both counts.

[jay35]

Because reducing TTK and increasing hit points appears to be their chosen way to rebalance things, what we end up with by doing it that way is a ton of generic, boring mechs. It's a terrible end result to have crap mechs only become good by removing what makes other mechs unique (their quirks) rather than giving the subpar mechs their own unique attributes. It removes diversity and uniqueness to existing builds and to how the mechs actually play in the game.

If they left existing quirks alone and were increasing structure to help increase TTK in light of that, that's one thing. But to remove the weapon quirks that breathe diversity into this game, that's just bad, especially quirks that weren't OP and weren't directly part of the TTK problem because the mechs they were in were balanced in other ways, like the Grid Iron's glass cannon XL engine or the Huginn's limited range and Raven chassis clumsiness.

Case in point, someone mentioned:[indent]
Grid Iron has +48 IS+A in quirks on the Right Torso, on top of up to 48 armour and 24 structure that's normal. No 2x Gauss, but 72 armour, and if you have 2 rear armour, the front RT has 118 IS+A. Which is, incidently, nearly on par with the Atlas DDC, who with 5 rear armour has 121 frontloaded IS+A.[/indent]
That is such utter crap. First off, why should a hunchback be armored up that much? That's stupid. Second, they removed the only thing that made the Grid Iron unique and fun to pilot, its Gauss quirk. Now it's just another hunchback. Whoop-dee-effing-doo. Now we have a very generic hunchback that has a bunch of arbitrary structure buffs. This is taking is directly to the sea of sameness I was worried about.

[Chemie]

XX Sulla XX, on 11 September 2015 - 01:41 PM, said:

Yes some umm nice person at PGI things agility is the problem. The problem is Clan weapons vs currest IS weapons. Making all the mechs less agile is not the way to balace the game.

IS can duck and cover with agility to avoid those clan OP weapons

[XX Sulla XX]

So is it just me or does it seem the changes over all do not change the current meta except for removing all IS mechs from it?

[DAYLEET]

We dont even know if we have all the info from the files yet...

But it's about time the dequirkening happen, it was ugly and messy, look at you guys now, toys taken away, like a hobo on crack.

Now lets speculate how they manage to not turn this dequirkening into the disaster that Clan wave 1 was. will a cerml have a duration of 15minute with ghost heat kicking at 2 cerml?

[IraqiWalker]

Khobai, on 11 September 2015 - 01:44 PM, said:

the majority of weapons are still inferior to lasers.

Which has more to do with hitreg issues, than lasers being superior.

[ApolloKaras]

XX Sulla XX, on 11 September 2015 - 01:44 PM, said:

So is it just me or does it seem the changes over all do not change the current meta except for removing all IS mechs from it?

I would think it would change things for the IS greatly. I'm not sure how yet.