61 replies to this topic

[Mcgral18]

You know, I've been thinking lately...about how the Flamer has been useless for the majority of 3 years.

I've also thought of taking a look at what the Flamer is.

<Loc iconTag="StoreIcons\ClanFlamer.dds" descTag="@ClanFlamer_desc" nameTag="@ClanFlamer"/>
<WeaponStats maxDepth="10.0" volleydelay="0.25" speed="100" lifetime="1.0" duration="-1.0" tons="0.5" maxRange="90.0" longRange="90.0" minRange="0" ammoPerShot="0" ammoType="" cooldown="0.0" heat="1.0" impulse="0.0" heatdamage="0.0" damage="0.7" numFiring="1" projectileclass="" type="Energy" slots="1" Health="10" maxheight="0" critChanceIncrease="0.14,0.08,0.03" critDamMult="1.1" trgheatinctime="3.0" heatinctime="6.25" coneoffire="10"/>

Something that immediately pops out are the last three variables. Notice how they don't follow the previous coding practice, and they seem to relate to the exponential heat gain.

HeatIncTime, either heat increase, or heat increment? You gain it at twice the rate, whatever it is.

CoF is also confusing, as the Flamer is a pinpoint weapon, until you get close. Then targeting does weird things, they don't converge nearly as well as lasers or ACs. It was likely added at the same time (following the same Terribad practice).


Other things of note? It has a 10% crit damage boost, to the MGs 900%, with a lower base damage of 0.7.



My suggestion? Ignore everything else, and just bump the damage up.

damage="2.0"

A significant boost, to a Terribad weapon. No difference for the IS or Clan version yet. Get them into a usable state, then buff or nerf one of them.



If someone could explain to me what exactly "heatinctime" means, that would be great. Is it the time to remove the Heat Retention? Or the time until the initial heat jump, which keeps getting higher and higher (cue Fups 57 SHS Stalker)?
Or what that CoF is?

[FupDup]

For the heatinctime, I think about it as the opposite of the trgheatinctime. I assume that trgheatinctime means how long it takes to increment the enemy's heat, so I assume that the regular heatinctime refers to the user's own heat. Thus, the user's heat takes longer intervals to increase than the target's, meaning the target gets more heat than you...but of course, it's still horribad.

I could live with Flamers being turned into pure DPS weapons like you suggest, though I would prefer to try to find them a "flavor" by support effects like increasing the target's heat by an actually significant amount, set crap on fire (including mechs), etc.

I also kinda wish they could get a max range higher than their "long range" like every other energy weapon, or at least an increased base range to at least 120m.

PS: This video is obligatory for this thread:

Edited by FupDup, 15 September 2015 - 02:36 PM.

[Mcgral18]

For anyone fearing a Flamer Meta, the 12 Flamer 4MG Nova (at 27.2 DPS) can only fire for 10 second on Frozen City before falling back to only the pathetic MGs (Why, Paul, why?).

That's with 20 heatsinks on one of the coolest maps. That "heatinctime" is nasty.

Under 270 damage in that time frame seems reasonable for a sub 100M weapon. It has no extended range.

[DAYLEET]

First, i want 200 meter range. Second, im totally making a 7 flamer 3mg erppc tc7 Exec tonight if i get the elite done.

Edited by DAYLEET, 15 September 2015 - 02:42 PM.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

I'm curious about that duration value at -1.0

And I wonder how a Cooldown of 0.001 or 0.01 would impact the exponential heat gain.

[Mcgral18]

Praetor Knight, on 15 September 2015 - 02:39 PM, said:

I'm curious about that duration value at -1.0

And I wonder how a Cooldown of 0.001 or 0.01 would impact the exponential heat gain.

Constant fire weapons have the neg 1 duration. MGs too.


They are lasers, after all.

FupDup, on 15 September 2015 - 02:36 PM, said:

For the heatinctime, I think about it as the opposite of the trgheatinctime. I assume that trgheatinctime means how long it takes to increment the enemy's heat, so I assume that the regular heatinctime refers to the user's own heat. Thus, the user's heat takes longer intervals to increase than the target's, meaning the target gets more heat than you...but of course, it's still horribad.

Does someone with Premium and E hardpoints want to shoot me with Flamers for Science?

1, 6 and 12 (or 15) if possible.

[cSand]

basically I just want the flamer to let us light all the trees and grass on fire

[FupDup]

cSand, on 15 September 2015 - 02:45 PM, said:

basically I just want the flamer to let us light all the trees and grass on fire

...But I get to also ignite enemy robbits, right?

[Cyborne Elemental]

If you want to buff the flamer, the easiest way to do it is to remove that ridiculous multiplier that builds up as you fire it.

Thats it, simple.

[Mister Blastman]

I love how flamers add heat to yourself when they are coming from the fusion reactor's own plasma. If anything... flamers should decrease overall heat slightly and cause power drain due to less matter in the reactor core.

[Mcgral18]

Mister D, on 15 September 2015 - 02:50 PM, said:

If you want to buff the flamer, the easiest way to do it is to remove that ridiculous multiplier that builds up as you fire it.

Thats it, simple.

Needs more than that.


Both should be adequate. Return the MGs to 1 DPS, and they've both got the same Dam/ton.

Flamers being ammoless, but short range.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Well I'd push for 120 meter flamers to match up to MG opt range, but LORE blah blah blah.

[Mcgral18]

Mister D, on 15 September 2015 - 03:04 PM, said:

Well I'd push for 120 meter flamers to match up to MG opt range, but LORE blah blah blah.

Well, I think I'd prefer nearly 3x damage to 30M, personally.

[FupDup]

Mcgral18, on 15 September 2015 - 03:06 PM, said:

Well, I think I'd prefer nearly 3x damage to 30M, personally.

[Mcgral18]

FupDup, on 15 September 2015 - 03:07 PM, said:

On top of heat retention...Yeah, you're right.


We're talking about Flamers here!

Edited by Mcgral18, 15 September 2015 - 03:11 PM.

[FupDup]

Mcgral18, on 15 September 2015 - 03:10 PM, said:

On top of heat retention...Yeah, you're right.

We're talking about Flamers here.

What's the worst that could happen, a few weeks of Novas and Swaybacks boating Flamers being the meta?

My body is so ready for this.

[wanderer]

Common misconception about the flamer getting it's plasma directly from the reaction chamber.

It's electrically heated and generated by the flamer itself, thus it generates waste heat. It's unlimited because all it needs is reaction mass (air works fine) and power. Heavy (and vehicle) flamers are a boosted and exclusively process using combustibles.

The one real problem with flamers is that they're supposed to be heat guns OR damage weapons, and PGI never put a real heat scale in...then left flamers doing damage and heat.

[Mcgral18]

wanderer, on 15 September 2015 - 03:18 PM, said:

Common misconception about the flamer getting it's plasma directly from the reaction chamber.

It's electrically heated and generated by the flamer itself, thus it generates waste heat. It's unlimited because all it needs is reaction mass (air works fine) and power. Heavy (and vehicle) flamers are a boosted and exclusively process using combustibles.

The one real problem with flamers is that they're supposed to be heat guns OR damage weapons, and PGI never put a real heat scale in...then left flamers doing damage and heat.

Well, effectively neither in practice.

[Deathlike]

Unlike all other metas, the Flamer meta has never existed. Even the MG had a short lived meta...

We can't have nice flamers.

[Andi Nagasia]

just ran some tests in Testing Grounds,
1) Flamer doesnt have a cone of Fire its all PinPoint(you can get a Flamer head shot!)
2) the Flames though look as if they can penetrate multiple mechs they cant(they are like every other weapon)
Edit-

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 15 September 2015 - 08:12 PM.