178 replies to this topic

[Johnny Gorbachev]

Game is already nearly impossible to f2p competitively unless you have been playing for ages. Each mech already takes about 12-20 mill to max out with armor/double heatsinks/weapons etc followed by 2x of its variants to skill tree it. Now there are modules for 3mill? Wouldn't it be more beneficial to just make them free and encourage players to spend more on mechbays and mechs? What does MWO have to gain from increasing the seal gap?

Lower cost for upgrades = more mechs bought = more mechbays bought = monies.

Grind= more powergap between low end and high end players= seals hate this game= seals leave this game

"OH but its not pay 2 win, Its pay 2 not grind"= wrong

"pay to not get clubbed, then pay to not get clubbed until I have a maxed out mech which would take about weeks of grinding, or months if you want a faction war deck"= right

Not going to say pay 2 win, actually no, I am going to say it. This game is as pay2win as heartstone. Don't have doctor boom? Unless you are vsing a skittle, you aren't going to win. We know this game lives off whales, calliing it pay2win is outright offensive to them, but it is the reality until it plateaus past the 4-8 maxed out mech set for faction war,

Compared to war thunder atleast if you have a maxed out tier 2 plane, you have a maxed out tier 2 plane. It takes a long time to get to tier4/5 but you can always fall back on tier 2 to have an even playing field. It doesn't exist for new players in MWO since it takes weeks to max out a single mech. Any veteran who disagrees the skill tree doesn't make a difference especially in close range brawls are just white knighting this game.

The only reason I am still playing this game is because I'm a mechwarrior fanboy, but I'm going to abstain from supporting it until the F2P crowd can actually play it more viably without disadvantages such keeping up with mechs who have +25%wep cooldowns +20%max heat efficiency etcetcetc.

Once I can actually see being F2p being viable without spending months to build a deck, I'll gladly throw money at the game and spam mechs and bays because that way, I know I don't have to grind another month just to upgrade my armor/weps/modules/skills/etc.

I doubt anyone here can say they have every mech unless they spent ridiculous amounts of money, so there will always be incentive to spend money in this game as long as there are mechs being released.

Say no to grind, not in mechwarrior atleast.

Edited by Johnny Gorbachev, 05 February 2016 - 02:56 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

smell like alt troll acct to anyone else?

A poorly informed one, btw, but most intentionally are....

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Would have been nice if modules were free with only the GXP costs.

Most of us old timers have had it rough for a long time since Cbill gains were much lower previously, events were less often, and prices were just as high. Now a days we play a few matches and see we've made 3 million dollars instead of 500k and feel fine.

We're like those great depression era grandparents that most people don't have now a days.

[Novakaine]

Indeed the troll stank be thick here.

[Alistair Winter]

Because they removed R&R and never developed CW, basically. With no C-bill expenses at all, and without a proper skill tree or role warfare, PGI hit two birds with one stone by saying that modules would replace role warfare (because now you buy your role with c-bills) and by letting people spend all their c-bills on millions of C-bills per mech to get the edge.

Yeah, it's a pretty terrible solution. But stuff like this always gets accepted because people like the ability to buy extra buffs, and because it gives veteran players an (unnecessary) edge over new players, which veteran players are usually fine with.

I don't think the game is P2W, by the way. However, it does have a pretty solid C-bill / XP / GXP barrier you have to overcome by either grinding or paying, on top of having a steep learning curve.

Edited by Alistair Winter, 05 February 2016 - 03:02 PM.

[Johnny Gorbachev]

Bishop Steiner, on 05 February 2016 - 02:57 PM, said:

smell like alt troll acct to anyone else?

A poorly informed one, btw, but most intentionally are....

I'm a new player, you know why new players rarely post here? Because new players rarely every stay. Unless youve been here from the start, grind is the name of the game. Thats the point of this post, you don't feel the grind, so its irrelevant to you. Actually it is relevant, because that means this game isnt going to grow past the current players who are tolerating it.

Edited by Johnny Gorbachev, 05 February 2016 - 03:02 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Johnny Gorbachev, on 05 February 2016 - 03:01 PM, said:

I'm a new player, you know why new players rarely post here? Because new players rarely every stay. Unless youve been here from the start, grind is the name of the game. Thats the point of this post, you don't feel the grind, so its irrelevant to you. Actually it is relevant, because that means this game isnt going to grow past the current players who are tolerating it.

Unless this is your F2P game, you know Grind 2 Play is the name of almost ALL F2P.

Also, Modules? Give you 10% max to range, 12% max to cooldown, both factors which are small enough to be nearly unnoticed in Tier 4-5 where a new player is located...more so since those tiers are largely populated by other new players who likely haven't procured modules yet, either.

Also, I am in Tier 2 and moving steadily to tier 1, and have weapon modules on very few mechs. Unless you are playign Comp Level their impact is highly overrated.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 05 February 2016 - 03:08 PM.

[Pardo Kerensky]

like any other f2p game or better to call them 'free2grind' or 'pay2notgrind' game they try to make grinding as atrocious as possible so you will pay money to shorten it, either by buying prem time, prem vehicles and/or c-bills bundles or mech packs that include modules and c-bills as preorder content.
sadly there is nothing to do about it, take it or leave it.

[Bishop Steiner]

Novakaine, on 05 February 2016 - 02:59 PM, said:

Indeed the troll stank be thick here.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Johnny Gorbachev, on 05 February 2016 - 03:01 PM, said:

I'm a new player, you know why new players rarely post here? Because new players rarely every stay. Unless youve been here from the start, grind is the name of the game. Thats the point of this post, you don't feel the grind, so its irrelevant to you. Actually it is relevant, because that means this game isnt going to grow past the current players who are tolerating it.

A lot of new players stay with the game, its honestly one of the least grindy F2Ps I've seen and isn't pay to win.

It may not be perfect, and maybe somewhere there is someone better, but MWO definitely isn't the worst.

[MrJeffers]

Johnny Gorbachev, on 05 February 2016 - 02:54 PM, said:

Game is already nearly impossible to f2p competitively unless you have been playing for ages. Each mech already takes about 12-20 mill to max out with armor/double heatsinks/weapons etc followed by 2x of its variants to skill tree it. Now there are modules for 3mill? Wouldn't it be more beneficial to just make them free and encourage players to spend more on mechbays and mechs? What does MWO have to gain from increasing the seal gap?

Lower cost for upgrades = more mechs bought = more mechbays bought = monies.

Grind= more powergap between low end and high end players= seals hate this game= seals leave this game

"OH but its not pay 2 win, Its pay 2 not grind"= wrong

"pay to not get clubbed, then pay to not get clubbed until I have a maxed out mech which would take about weeks of grinding, or months if you want a faction war deck"= right

Not going to say pay 2 win, actually no, I am going to say it. This game is as pay2win as heartstone. Don't have doctor boom? Unless you are vsing a skittle, you aren't going to win. We know this game lives off whales, calliing it pay2win is outright offensive to them, but it is the reality until it plateaus past the 4-8 maxed out mech set for faction war,

Compared to war thunder atleast if you have a maxed out tier 2 plane, you have a maxed out tier 2 plane. It takes a long time to get to tier4/5 but you can always fall back on tier 2 to have an even playing field. It doesn't exist for new players in MWO since it takes weeks to max out a single mech. Any veteran who disagrees the skill tree doesn't make a difference especially in close range brawls are just white knighting this game.

The only reason I am still playing this game is because I'm a mechwarrior fanboy, but I'm going to abstain from supporting it until the F2P crowd can actually play it more viably without disadvantages such keeping up with mechs who have +25%wep cooldowns +20%max heat efficiency etcetcetc.

Once I can actually see being F2p being viable without spending months to build a deck, I'll gladly throw money at the game and spam mechs and bays because that way, I know I don't have to grind another month just to upgrade my armor/weps/modules/skills/etc.

I doubt anyone here can say they have every mech unless they spent ridiculous amounts of money, so there will always be incentive to spend money in this game as long as there are mechs being released.

Say no to grind, not in mechwarrior atleast.

Please explain how modules, that you can't buy for real money, are P2W?

Your War thunder Tier example doesn't tell the whole story compared to MWO
Your mech w/o modules is that maxed out Tier 2.
Your Mech with Modules is that tier 5.

Explain how the grind through tiers 3,4 and 5 in War Thunder is different/easier than the grind to accumulate the minimal, one time GXP unlocks for modules, and the grind for the C-Bills that you are getting at the same time.

And then account for how the one time unlocks and the modules (which can be moved) then apply to every mech you own vs. having to grind it out again for another plane.

Edited by MrJeffers, 05 February 2016 - 03:14 PM.

[Johnny Gorbachev]

MrJeffers, on 05 February 2016 - 03:12 PM, said:

Please explain how modules, that you can't buy for real money, are P2W?

Your War thunder Tier example doesn't tell the whole story compared to MWO
Your mech w/o modules is that maxed out Tier 2.
Your Mech with Modules is that tier 5.

Explain how the grind through tiers 3,4 and 5 in War Thunder is different/easier than the grind to accumulate the minimal, one time GXP unlocks for modules, and the grind for the C-Bills that you are getting at the same time.

And then account for how the one time unlocks and the modules (which can be moved) then apply to every mech you own vs. having to grind it out again for another plane.

In MWO there are no tiers so you can't compare it to tiers 3-5, you can only compare it to tiers 1-5 in WT. No module/elite mechs are objectively worse in everyway, even in turms of dps and burst damage since range/efficiency/cooling/cooldown can be affected. GXP isn't an issue, CCBILL is. CCBILL is real money, grind is real money, everything in this game is real money, just because you can farm it doesn't mean its reasonably possible. Its like asking an average worker in china to save up for a house in america, its actually impossible, even though over time the numbers do pile up.

WT doesn't have DPS mods, WT lets you stay in T2 forever to always get a fair playing ground since it just takes a short while to get a maxed out t2-t1 plane. You might have less handling, but atleast you don't ouright out dps under grinded planes.

Try brawling an unmodded atlas vs a maxed one, the maxed one will kill you atleast 40% faster.

[Hit the Deck]

Because they are the end game content.

[MrJeffers]

Johnny Gorbachev, on 05 February 2016 - 03:31 PM, said:

In MWO there are no tiers so you can't compare it to tiers 3-5, you can only compare it to tiers 1-5 in WT. No module/elite mechs are objectively worse in everyway, even in turms of dps and burst damage since range/efficiency/cooling/cooldown can be affected. GXP isn't an issue, CCBILL is. CCBILL is real money, grind is real money, everything in this game is real money, just because you can farm it doesn't mean its reasonably possible. Its like asking an average worker in china to save up for a house in america, its actually impossible, even though over time the numbers do pile up.

WT doesn't have DPS mods, WT lets you stay in T2 forever to always get a fair playing ground since it just takes a short while to get a maxed out t2-t1 plane. You might have less handling, but atleast you don't ouright out dps under grinded planes.

Try brawling an unmodded atlas vs a maxed one, the maxed one will kill you atleast 40% faster.

Modules are in game currency, not real money no matter how you are trying to spin it.
And the tier comparison is an example of the grind you say doesn't exist in War Thunder. It's the same grid, just for different in game assets.

If you could fight a Tier 5 plane in a Tier 2 it's the same comparison as your atlas comparison, the only thing is that the Tiers in MWO are based on player skill, not on equipment level. But there are equipment levels in MWO that do somewhat equate to the tiers in WoT, War Thunder, WoWs, etc.

Edited by MrJeffers, 05 February 2016 - 03:37 PM.

[oldradagast]

They are sadly just a money and time sink.

Personally, I hate them, though I use them to try to compete.

Still, there's just nothing interesting or fun about them - they are linear upgrades to a mech - "buy this or be worse than somebody who has one" - and they are almost all focused on killing people faster. I think the only purely defensive one is Radar Derp, and that thing has its own issues, namely being a goofy semi-stealth module that makes already unreliable LRM's useless against people who have it.

The game's TTK is already too low, and the modules are just another thing players have to sink money into; while that's obviously the point, it's a shallow one and lacks the depth I'd expect from a game.

Far better would be modules that are ROLE based, and which each have a minor drawback so they aren't just flat-out upgrades to your mech. Then, people could make intelligent choices vs. "I'll take the kill things faster module for 3,000,000, Alex" that we have today.

Edited by oldradagast, 05 February 2016 - 03:38 PM.

[Johnny Gorbachev]

Hit the Deck, on 05 February 2016 - 03:34 PM, said:

Because they are the end game content.

Grind isnt content, its just grind. Mechs are content, Weapons are content, unique creative mods that impact gameplay is content, mods that just increase DPS isn't content.

[MrJeffers]

Johnny Gorbachev, on 05 February 2016 - 03:37 PM, said:

Grind isnt content, its just grind. Mechs are content, Weapons are content, unique creative mods that impact gameplay is content, mods that just increase DPS isn't content.

Then by that logic tiers of equipment in other games are not really content because the primary advantages of them are higher health/higher damage/higher range relative to their lower tier counterparts.

[Hit the Deck]

Johnny Gorbachev, on 05 February 2016 - 03:37 PM, said:

Grind isnt content, its just grind. Mechs are content, Weapons are content, unique creative mods that impact gameplay is content, mods that just increase DPS isn't content.

I just quoted Paul (or maybe someone else who said that at PGI ).

Edited by Hit the Deck, 05 February 2016 - 03:43 PM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

OP, you seem a bit biased.

[oldradagast]

MrJeffers, on 05 February 2016 - 03:39 PM, said:

Then by that logic tiers of equipment in other games are not really content because the primary advantages of them are higher health/higher damage/higher range relative to their lower tier counterparts.

Yes, but the implementation in MWO is terrible compared to other F2P games.

Let's take World of Warships for example. While almost every upgrade there is a direct improvement to your ship (there are a few that are debatable), they are not all the same, and they generally fit a mix of the ship's game role and its historical nature. One vessel may get better anti-aircraft guns and more hitpoints, another may get longer range torpedoes, etc. It's not just a flat "kill things 12.5% faster" bonus for all ships.The total lack of roles and interesting and fun decisions to be made in the MWO module system is painfully obvious.

Additionally, MWO module system strongly encourages one of the game's annoying and anti-lore problems - weapon boating. Players rapidly figure out that not only is boating a single main weapon type easier to use in-game, but the module system also rewards it since you have to buy and equip fewer modules per mech if you boat weapons.