Who knows. It might work. And it is not right to say there was never a mechanic to stop mega alpha strikes. The board game version of b tech had many mechs that would overheat severely if all the weapons were fired. That pretty much stopped most of that - shoot it all on an over gunned mech and you were not doing anything else for a turn or two. Assuming you didn't explode. Less desire to do it as the damage randomly spread rather than go all in one spot to give you a one shot kill.
I still think going back that way is the better way... heat penalties, half the heat cap we have... That'll curtail alphas nicely
1) Terribads
2) People who are perfectly fine with Long range PPFLD and ballistic boats (low alpha, high DPS) being the only viable loadouts
Literally the stupidest waste of time I have ever seen.
3) People who hate ghost heat and want to see something simpler take it's place.
DarthHias, on 13 June 2016 - 09:42 PM, said:
I hope that:
PGI:
Puts it on the test server.
Listens to input from players, possibly putting some factors up to vote.
The players:
Test it prior to complaining.
Only those discuss who tested it.
Be reasonable and put up arguments instead of "PGIthisiscrapwatchaeventhinking"
Not one of the things listed above are even remotely likely.
I still think going back that way is the better way... heat penalties, half the heat cap we have... That'll curtail alphas nicely
PPFLD: all you need is 30-35 alpha
Ballistic DPS: all you need is 20 alpha
This isn't going to change anything.
I don't think you guys realize how much of a white knight I typically am, and what it takes to make me actually say PGI is making a huge mistake. This isn't about me wanting to protect my laser vomit mechs (I don't even play laser vomit mechs very often anymore, but I DO know that large engined Clan omnimechs like the Executioner is going to get its nuts kicked in by mechanics like this). All this is going to do is reduce competitive variety, not change anything else.
PPFLD: all you need is 30-35 alpha
Ballistic DPS: all you need is 20 alpha
This isn't going to change anything.
I don't think you guys realize how much of a white knight I typically am, and what it takes to make me actually say PGI is making a huge mistake. This isn't about me wanting to protect my laser vomit mechs (I don't even play laser vomit mechs very often anymore, but I DO know that large engined Clan omnimechs like the Executioner is going to get its nuts kicked in by mechanics like this). All this is going to do is reduce competitive variety, not change anything else.
I get your point. But you're arguing the wrong argument, at least with me.
Andi Nagasia, on 13 June 2016 - 08:45 PM, said:
well telling a New Player just getting into MWO
(Hey Dont fire an Weapon set that does over 30Damage your Mech cant take it and will over heat)
is much easier to Explain so they know not to fire over 30,
as apposed to what we have now with Ghost Heat,
(Hey dont Fire more than 6ML or 6SL, but firing 6ML and 3LPL are ok, unless your Clan then its 2LPL)
its gets confusing really Quickly, as apposed to (No fire over 30 damage at a time!!!)
Edit-
I just want to see Ghost Heat gone. I want something simpler in it's place, that isn't so damn stupid and incomprehensible.
I don't expect this to be The Grand Solution To All Our Woes. Hell, I think we're on the road to a dakka meta anyways. But I do expect it to be an improvement - not necessarily even in terms of gameplay for you and me, but in how totally incomprehensible Ghost Heat is for newer players. It's a huge barrier to entry that doesn't add anything to the game.
To be clear, I've been arguing that from day one, from literally the first thread that some ***king stupid player suggested Ghost Heat in the first place. I don't even remember who it was (that's probably for the best) but my argument then, and then when it was introduced, and still today, is quite simply that it's a massively complicated, mostly ineffective solution to a relatively small problem that causes way more harm than good. Sure, we don't have 6PPC Stalkers (etc), but to remove basically one build from the game it makes things so much harder and more confusing to new players.
So, sorry, but I honestly don't care if this pushes the game more towards a dakka / low damage PPFLD meta. We had the 30-35pt PPFLD meta before, and poptarts aside it wasn't bad. Dakka? Facetime requirements make it more interesting than peek-and-burn.
Regardless, we're going to see a dakka meta soon anyways, even if this system doesn't happen. Don't care. It'll always be something or other.
But removing Ghost Heat removes major barriers to entry for new players, and streamlines gameplay. Removing complexity (but not depth/sim features!) is a very good thing.
sounds like he wants to encourage mixed loadouts, as an anti boating feature. pretty much exactly what ghost heat 1.0 tried to do. i find this disturbing. like he is coming up with a brand new way to do the same damn thing that doesnt work.
I get your point. But you're arguing the wrong argument, at least with me.
Well, you said that ghost heat is easy to get around right?
Well, you have two options with lasers for instance. You have to stagger fire for more long range fire power, or you fill in with smaller lasers for SIGNIFICANTLY less range but larger alpha, its a simply trade off. Or you swap in some Gauss for some long range bite with your longer range lasers, but you take a hit to DPS, and for IS mechs, you typically struggle a bit due to the extra weight. Have you noticed that Gauss vomit is pretty rare nowadays? I have.
Either way, yeah ghost heat is kinda meh, but seriously.. this is the same ****, just a different year. "oh check out this brand new system we spend months on" -> no change. That's called a waste of time.
Seriously, there are many better things they could be spending there time on, the fact that they chose this is disgusting.
Well, you said that ghost heat is easy to get around right?
Well, you have two options with lasers for instance. You have to stagger fire for more long range fire power, or you fill in with smaller lasers for SIGNIFICANTLY less range but larger alpha, its a simply trade off. Or you swap in some Gauss for some long range bite with your longer range lasers, but you take a hit to DPS, and for IS mechs, you typically struggle a bit due to the extra weight. Have you noticed that Gauss vomit is pretty rare nowadays? I have.
Did you not read the rest of my post? What relevance does the above have to that? I'm not sure what you're saying here; but I suspect that you're not really grasping why I want this. I thought I've been pretty clear, but..?
Did you not read the rest of my post? What relevance does the above have to that? I'm not sure what you're saying here; but I suspect that you're not really grasping why I want this. I thought I've been pretty clear, but..?
I'm not grasping why you want ghost heat gone but think this will somehow be better.
Wait and see until you hear the specifics to make a determination. Once the spec is released, everyone can make up their mind if its good or bad. I'm not a fan of ghost and would prefer hard point size at the true fix, but wait and see if energy draw is a fix.
PPFLD: all you need is 30-35 alpha
Ballistic DPS: all you need is 20 alpha
This isn't going to change anything.
I don't think you guys realize how much of a white knight I typically am, and what it takes to make me actually say PGI is making a huge mistake. This isn't about me wanting to protect my laser vomit mechs (I don't even play laser vomit mechs very often anymore, but I DO know that large engined Clan omnimechs like the Executioner is going to get its nuts kicked in by mechanics like this). All this is going to do is reduce competitive variety, not change anything else.
If they go through with it, I do hope it has a MASC like bar and a value to each weapon...because damage isn't equal
The isLPL VS the cSPL (or a pair) 11 VS 12 damage, almost the same heat, but one does it from further (Optimal is past the max range of the cSPL) with shorter duration, without getting into SRMs, MGs or ACs (and the garbage that are cACs)
Also without tonnage considerations (Should big guns get fewer penalties than small guns? But then the range VS slots VS tonnage VS heat)
So much potential for rubbish, and also the possibility of nothing changing (other than the WubShee...but he's so disfigured already)
..all the while I haven't heard a single positive thing about the incoming power draw mechanic from any player.. only negative.
So, does this community really want an Energy Draw system? Do you guys think it would be good for this game to have a system that prevents players from firing all of their weapons due to some invisible mechanic that has never existed in all of Battletech / Mechwarrior?
I mean, Novas are historically known as a mech that carries more weapons that it can keep firing, but that's why alpha-strikes exist.. and Novas shutdown after they alpha-strike.
Now, we're going to have another invisible system that surely won't be explained one iota in-game that will alienate and frustrate new players and likely cause existing players to just say, "screw this, they changed the game too much and now it isn't something that I want to keep playing. All the mechs in my garage have been ruined."
Personally, I'd rather they got off of their sidetracked asses and rolled FP back to phase 2. They've already rolled out feature after feature that the playerbase didn't want, didn't ask for and didn't like.. and that has done possibly irreparable damage to the FP participation numbers.
This new feature sounds like a horrible pain in the *** and a generally terrible idea.. in a long line of pains in the asses and terrible ideas.
let me help you with that:
http://farpnut.net/2...ine-heat-scale/
Youtube video: https://www.youtube....?v=wNHoe6D19N8. "Mechwarrior Online Engine Capacity Concept "
(yes: this is the most popular demanded feature for MW: O when it comes from ghost heat: besides "keep ghost heat!!" and "remove ghost heat!!". This was a feature the community repeatedly asked and we are getting it due to that. Welcome to the whole "but I didn't know about it!" and the "they should listen to the majority! We're the majority!" -also has unknown idea)
A. Jason:
"This is a great concept, I wish they would listen and implement this!"
makaveliq3:
"Great video thank you"
Youtube video:
Nathaniel Brosnihan:
"The Reactor value system sounds like a REALLY good idea. It would limit quad Gauss, 6 PPC's, 6 ER large laser stalkers and meta timberwolves. It would enforce weapon diversity as people would have to change their loadouts to cover all positions so that you were effective at all times."
Intrafacial86:
"So basically, you're suggesting a system where the reactor has a maximum power output level that's considered "safe" and that firing enough weapons at once would push the reactor past that limit, generating extra heat? Sounds like a clever solution Of course, a major part of this whole problem is the instakill/oneshot culture that modern games have created, which should be completely counter intuitive in a game like this. Growing up with Mechwarrior 2 (and having played MW3 and 4 as well), I remember only group firing and alpha striking when I absolutely had to do so in order to survive or when I saw a unique window of opportunity to take out a target. Most of the time I stayed on chain fire, which was generally better performance wise."
Steve Dalton (GRiPSViGiL):
"I would play MWO again if your were balancing the game."
Craigo:
"Good luck, devs don't like great ideas they didn't think of first. Man, the development of this game is so strange."
(how ironic?... now the devs will add it and now people say nearly the exact same thing...)
Cervantes:
"Would have liked the video if there wasn't a filthy Nova Cat emblem. JK, what you proposed made sense :y"
Trevor Harvey:
"Thanks for putting this on a video, personally I think this would fix a lot of problems. "
Christian “Twicky” Pasch:
"It would vastly change the hole gameplay."
AceAbomination:
"great thoughts, I will definitely check out those articles."
Doom2exe:
"Brilliant man these is a great idea!"
And that is not including the forums... Already quite a lot of possitive feedback so far.
I would link you the threads; the comments; the posts, etc on MW: O forums and Reddits but thanks to the nature of Reddit being on the "NEWS" and not the "Olds" and that MW: O ssearch resaults is clogged with threads like these...
it's harder to find all the compliments, requests, suggestions, etc...
However- this was an overwhelmingly possitive suggestion on the Twitter as well as on the forums, youtube, blogs, etc.
And due to the fact that for all this time until Russ said it will be added there was nothing but possitive compliments and ideas to it- the only 'nay sayers' out there are thoses who believe there should be no form of penalty what so ever for firing multiple weapons. (ie: back to the good ol 6 ppc stalker days).
Just because you may have never seen it, doesn't mean no one is out there. You forget how large a multiplayer community can get and this is no acception for a niche small genre like MechWarrior.
Now if you ask me personally on my opinions: I think it's a great idea.
It does everything ghost heat does right without doing anything it does wrong.
No more ER med laser + large pulse lasser bypass, AND it's easy to quirk into mechs- ie the underdog and debatably the worst clan medium mech the Nova can easily get a quirk for more 'reactor' or 'penalty heat' capacity or threshold and is allowed to fire more weapons at once or more often or at a lesser penalty then a Stormcrow for eg. Making individual mech ballancing much more easier rather then trying to ballance it universally (which doesn't work as not every mech is universally ).
Also each mech can get different forms of quirks...
"Reduced penalty for this weapon!"
"reduced penalty overall!"
"higher threshold!"
etc.. Making each mech unique and can ballance mechs the same way how quirks do already. As well as create a viarirty..
To be honest this was one of the features I've waited a long time for and some people out there are willing to come back into MW: O. The only thing I would love more then this in a possible close time from now and not a distant future (ai tanks on maps...) is just maps with unique objectives and stuffs. ie convoys, deffending these outposts, etc... Or have the battle of Tukayiid actually on the grassy planes and canyons of Tukayiid and not some random sulfur pit.
If they go through with it, I do hope it has a MASC like bar and a value to each weapon...because damage isn't equal
The isLPL VS the cSPL (or a pair) 11 VS 12 damage, almost the same heat, but one does it from further (Optimal is past the max range of the cSPL) with shorter duration, without getting into SRMs, MGs or ACs (and the garbage that are cACs)
Also without tonnage considerations (Should big guns get fewer penalties than small guns? But then the range VS slots VS tonnage VS heat)
So much potential for rubbish, and also the possibility of nothing changing (other than the WubShee...but he's so disfigured already)
I agree, there is a small chance it could not be terrible.
I'd rather cut my losses and focus on meaningful content and proper mech balance.
The alphas need to be limited. It will increase TTK and will (hopefully) lead to a wider variety of weapons on mechs. It will also help brawlers and make for a more diverse gameplay.
The alphas need to be limited. It will increase TTK and will (hopefully) lead to a wider variety of weapons on mechs. It will also help brawlers and make for a more diverse gameplay.
As for ranting: let's see how it pans out
Actually it makes brawling not worth it. It will also lead to less variety of weapons used.
Either way, yeah ghost heat is kinda meh, but seriously.. this is the same ****, just a different year. "oh check out this brand new system we spend months on" -> no change. That's called a waste of time.
Well, we'll have to wait and see, won't we?
Look, I get that PGI's track record with these things is terrible, and I certainly won't be the guy to act surprised if they manage to mess it up.
But in my books, "better" means: I can tell a new user, in one sentence, all he needs to understand how it works. No tables are required to explain it.
That's what I want. Otherwise, my expectations are low. I understand McGral's concerns(re: Not all damage is equal) and your own (Weeee dakka meta!). I actually agree with you here: The most likely result in terms of what happens in game is likely to be minimal.
I don't care about that.
What I care about is removing a metric buttload of complexity that makes teaching new players how to play and how to build decent mechs very difficult.
That is what I care about.
Ghost heat is bad. It only marginally works at all, and PGI gave up patching it up a long time ago. It's done. They're not going to simply remove it and replace it with nothing, because they don't want what would obviously result (though honestly I'd prefer that, even, though I understand I'm probably in the minority there). So yeah, I just want to see it replaced.
Maybe it won't work out. Maybe it will. I doubt the end result will be worse than Ghost Heat, though with that said, I also said that I doubted they'd go with Ghost Heat given how obviously stupid it was, and here we are today.
Why complicate things with unclear mechanics like ghost heat at all? Power draw sounds marginally more reasonable but then again why not just: 1. Decrease heat cap, increase heat dissipation 2. Adjust ballistics heat, offset with more ammo/ton, maybe introduce burst fire for all ACs where higher ACs have more dps instead of ppfld
Both laservomit alpha and ballistic domination problems solved!
More on the burst fire in AC's, I hate the current clan burst mechanic. I'd prefer the autocannons firing lighter projectiles but at a constant rate, not pewpewpew burst.
Edited by PitchBlackYeti, 13 June 2016 - 10:57 PM.
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SuomiWarder, on 13 June 2016 - 09:40 PM, said:
