224 replies to this topic

[Calon Farstar]

A way to mitigate this issue and make it more realistic is to make a aiming scale related to weight and engine size. Smaller mechs move faster obviously but they should also have less lag time in aiming. Make the aiming reticles on the larger mechs slower put a bit of a lag in. So okay you have an atlas but can you hit a jenner at top speed with that AC20? Particularly torso weapons where the twist would take a lot of time to actually occur. And even arms on a big assault mech would realistically move slow.

[LordDeathStrike]

Calon Farstar, on 20 March 2012 - 09:44 PM, said:

A way to mitigate this issue and make it more realistic is to make a aiming scale related to weight and engine size. Smaller mechs move faster obviously but they should also have less lag time in aiming. Make the aiming reticles on the larger mechs slower put a bit of a lag in. So okay you have an atlas but can you hit a jenner at top speed with that AC20? Particularly torso weapons where the twist would take a lot of time to actually occur. And even arms on a big assault mech would realistically move slow.

the obvious solution is to load the jenner with sensors and be a scout, then you know where the atlas is, and you stay out of ac 20 range, and out of line of sight so he cant lrm you.

you wanna go up to an atlas and shoot it dead? use a fighting chasis like an atlas.

[Naduk]

I'm ready for the instant death
bring it

a single LRM20 salvo could kill a Jenner in MW2
its what made the game fun, if you were that Jenner and you killed an Atlas you were a god!
there was no bigger match of skill

the problem with the older games was the lack of reward for light pilots, something that the role warfare part of this game solves
the challenge of Light Vs Assault is still just as hard/deadly but there is a true reason for lights to be on the field now

so bring those one hit kills on
makes being that scout hidden deep in enemy lines thrilling !

[Sheewa]

It's not fun to be able to oneshot someone for me.

[Brakkyn]

I'm ready!

[crazy jake]

Sheewa, on 20 March 2012 - 11:13 PM, said:

It's not fun to be able to oneshot someone for me.

It is certainly not fun to be one shotted, I have written in a previous post on these forums that on a TT mission once I downed an assault mech with a light mech with 2 consecutive medium laser shots to the head....one in a million shot that never happened again. What will ruin a game like MW:O is the so called "aim bot". I played MW:LL once, had a shiney new 55 ton mech, came around a corner and was one-shotted by a light mech, after that happened 2 more times in a row, I stopped playing. Don't see how anyone could have fun or call themselves skilled when using one. Since MW:LL was run on CryEngine2 and MW:O on Cry3, I assume an aim bot would work here too. Even if the devs could find out who was using one and take appropriate action, since it it f2p, they'd just make a new Mechwarrior and get a new IP.

[Sir Aaron]

okey there is one thing we can be absolutely certain about. There WILL be DRAMA. This is a Player vs Player game style. There will be Drama people who cant handle that four mechs just shoot them down within two seconds. And there will be Drama about guns big enough to kill their "unbeatable" armor within short time as well (on shot or not). Should we care about? No. absolutely no. Nothing ruins a multiplayer game faster if the defs listen to the Drama queens. Still one Shot kills are a certain source for lot of Drama. But as long as it dosn't gets the primary way to take down an enemy it is fine.

[Pvt Dancer]

crazy jake, on 20 March 2012 - 11:35 PM, said:

It is certainly not fun to be one shotted, I have written in a previous post on these forums that on a TT mission once I downed an assault mech with a light mech with 2 consecutive medium laser shots to the head....one in a million shot that never happened again. What will ruin a game like MW:O is the so called "aim bot". I played MW:LL once, had a shiney new 55 ton mech, came around a corner and was one-shotted by a light mech, after that happened 2 more times in a row, I stopped playing. Don't see how anyone could have fun or call themselves skilled when using one. Since MW:LL was run on CryEngine2 and MW:O on Cry3, I assume an aim bot would work here too. Even if the devs could find out who was using one and take appropriate action, since it it f2p, they'd just make a new Mechwarrior and get a new IP.

I will say with 99% certainty that aimbots and hacks like it will never be in this game. It is a lengthy topic to explain and I don't even think I can explain it properly to make sense... best I can say is that all the info that hacks like that would need to be added onto will be on the game server and not on our computer. They would have to hack the game servers, find their accout, and enable a hack that way...and not be caught. The games where you install the entire game on your computer and play on neutral servers or a players hosted server are the games that give the hackers enough info to add in hacks because they have /everything/ on their computer. They just have to be savvy enough to change it or DL something to auto-add it.

A game like this, the best cheat someone might be able to come up with are custom skins to show 'hit boxes', because that info is what is on your computer. And since /we/ know where to hit mechs already, that 'advantage' is only for players who have no clue on how the game is played.

As for 1 shot 1 kill, that has been an aspect of the game from it's creation. To get rid of it, your drasticly changing the game by changing the damage of weapons or changing how armor works. Your then not playing Battletech anymore, so why bother calling it Mechwarrior anymore? I will point out a AC 20 to the head will kill any mech in the game, period. And any amount of damage over 12 will also take out a head. That lucky head shot is part of the game, just like in most FPSs.

They are already partially solving the problem with Role warfare and the fact that you can start with any chassie. I actually see it as most every noob player will start out in a Atlas and the smaller tonnage you get the higher chance you will get of playing against a highly skilled players.

Suck it up, and hope they have a function like World of Tanks were once you die, you can just hit escape and play a different mech. I think it is a great idea/option if you don't want to hang out as a ghost and finish watching the match. Once the match ends, that tank can then be repaired and you can join another match with it.

[Togg Bott]

Ya Know, even though its gonna happen, (head shots to light mechs). i really waiting for the time i hear, "Oh crap. Its Togg in his 45 tonner"

thats when i'll know MMO has been balanced properly

[Gigaton]

Like another forumite noted, one shotting in this game will be a cakewalk compared to World of Tanks.

However, I'd add that there are standard 'mehcs in 3025 TROs (notably, the King Crab) that can one shot most standard heavy 'mechs from the same readouts with CT hit. I still want King Crab though.

[darkviper]

I don't mind if we are doing cost or BV battles.

If Jenners can do 1 v 1 wins against an atlas there would be no point spending the time cost or effort on the bigger mech.

I am thinking league battles now.

[Scarlett Avignon]

I've never been a fan of two destroyed legs meaning you are out. I'd like a more 'table-top' version where maybe you simply become a pillbox until actually destroyed.

As far as AC-20's being OP against light-mechs, I think you're going to:

1. have serious tracking issues with them, and

2. find the game designers have (rightfully) thrown the table-top armor system out the window, to make the mechs more survivable and make matches a little more drawn out.

Also, I'd REALLY love to see shots bounce in this game. Would really add to the realism.

[MaddMaxx]

HighlandWolf, on 20 March 2012 - 06:11 PM, said:

im not worried, they'll balance the game..and if you cant work a scout correctly..you'll move onto something with more armour and more weapons..the ones that quit will be the ones that want quick and easy games

You do understand that every Mech, from 20t to 100t, all have the same amount of Head armor right?

So as the Dev have said since day 1, "Bigger is not necessarily better!"

[Brigand]

Calon Farstar, on 20 March 2012 - 09:44 PM, said:

A way to mitigate this issue and make it more realistic is to make a aiming scale related to weight and engine size. Smaller mechs move faster obviously but they should also have less lag time in aiming. Make the aiming reticles on the larger mechs slower put a bit of a lag in. So okay you have an atlas but can you hit a jenner at top speed with that AC20? Particularly torso weapons where the twist would take a lot of time to actually occur. And even arms on a big assault mech would realistically move slow.

Good idea. But you forgot about torso twist speed. Slower torso twist at bigger chassis would allow smaller 'Mech to perform hit-and-run tactics and flanking maneuvres.
I concern more in another problem, which follows from this tread. Problem (to my mind), that so frustrated me in WoT. What if you would be able to see only assault 'Mechs on a battlefield?

LordDeathStrike, on 20 March 2012 - 09:55 PM, said:

you wanna go up to an atlas and shoot it dead? use a fighting chasis like an atlas.

That is.

[Belial]

A quote I saw recently... no idea who originally said it but anyways...

"Don't overthink anything, or you'll create a problem that didn't exist in the first place."

Seems to sum up this particular thread quite well. I'm all for the usual banter and speculation, but some people are taking this as a genuine fear.

darkviper, on 21 March 2012 - 03:01 AM, said:

I don't mind if we are doing cost or BV battles.

If Jenners can do 1 v 1 wins against an atlas there would be no point spending the time cost or effort on the bigger mech.

I am thinking league battles now.

It all depends on who is piloting those 'Mechs. If I take a Jenner against some n00b in an Atlas who has no idea what he's doing, I'll probably win unless I mess up and get nailed by that AC/20 a few times. If I take a Jenner again and fight someone who has know-how on piloting 'Mechs, I stand a much higher chance of getting blown to shreds. And there would still be plenty of purpose in getting the bigger 'Mechs since they serve a vastly different role than the smaller guys,

[Ulric Kell]

I'll wait and see what happens in the actual game. I am ready for this though yes.

[Paladin1]

Aegis Kleais™, on 20 March 2012 - 08:12 AM, said:

Balancing has not been done, so we really don't know how well Mechs will react to weapons.

Either way, I'll have no sympathy for the light who feels his speed affords him the ability to take next to no armor. I would not be surprised to see an AC/20 knock down a light, but as far as instantly killing it, I don't think a light is going to be THAT fragile.

I think you're going to be surprised Aegis, the Hunchback is renowned for it's ability to core light `Mechs with a single salvo of that AC/20, even if it hits a side torso or possibly even an arm. The light designs we've seen so far don't have to fear an arm hit from an AC/20, but a torso hit or a leg hit will put them down, one way or another. The armor just isn't there for that kind of punishment.

[VF5SS]

Pvt Dancer, on 21 March 2012 - 12:49 AM, said:

As for 1 shot 1 kill, that has been an aspect of the game from it's creation. To get rid of it, your drasticly changing the game by changing the damage of weapons or changing how armor works. Your then not playing Battletech anymore, so why bother calling it Mechwarrior anymore?

Doesn't this beg the question though, if this problem keeps happening across nearly three decades of Mechwarrior games then aren't these concepts simply unworkable in a real time environment? Hit points are a perfectly acceptable abstraction of health and armor values in table top and video games. However, if unquestioned marriage to the source material produces nothing but jogging turrets with all their armor being irrelevant because the system does nothing to deter focusing on the singular part that causes the quickest death then perhaps the system itself is flawed and needs to be changed. Even Armored Core managed to implement a sum total hitpoint system by simply adding defensive ratings to each individual part.

Even if no one can be one-shotted, there is still the problem of being two or three shotted. Weapon cooldown would have to be drastically lengthened to prevent the same slugging matches.

Surely there is more to Battletech that is appealing than chaining it to a style of gameplay first created in 1989 and has remained relatively unchanged. The medium has progressed so much since then. While the basics like FPS games and platformers have evolved, the Mechwarrior games are like a strange anachronism in the face of game development.

[Felicitatem Parco]

VF5SS, on 21 March 2012 - 08:35 AM, said:

Doesn't this beg the question though, if this problem keeps happening across nearly three decades of Mechwarrior games then aren't these concepts simply unworkable in a real time environment? Hit points are a perfectly acceptable abstraction of health and armor values in table top and video games. However, if unquestioned marriage to the source material produces nothing but jogging turrets with all their armor being irrelevant because the system does nothing to deter focusing on the singular part that causes the quickest death then perhaps the system itself is flawed and needs to be changed. Even Armored Core managed to implement a sum total hitpoint system by simply adding defensive ratings to each individual part.

I hate hate hate the Armored Core mechanic of sum-total hitpoints. There is no reason in the world why I should be able to "kill" a 75-ton Mech by repeatedly shooting it in the tip of its left pinky finger with a light Machinegun. That would NEVER cause the machine to shut down, yet you can kill any mech in the Armored Core franchise by just chipping away at the tip of some unnecessary appendage like a finger or a radio antenae with the lightest and weakest of weapons. Imagine attacking an Atlas Mech by repeatedly shooting it in the left hand with small lasers, and nowhere else on the body... just small lasers to the left hand... and instead of watching the hand or the arm fall off, you watch the entire Mech fall over and explode.

I would never want to adopt that as my game's primary Health system.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 21 March 2012 - 08:50 AM.

[Lysander Davion Steiner]

If you get hit in the cockpit by a hollander, i would not exspect nothing less than one shot one kill, unless you beefed up your armour a good few tons.