104 replies to this topic

[Suko]

Alright, I find it difficult to call this an "exploit", but it certainly is a abusing the ECM system. 3 times last night I encountered the same 4 man team where each member one was running an ECM Raven equipped with SSRMs and med or large lasers. They would all scout along the perimeter to capture the base in each game. 4 mechs on base means it can drop the base to 0 health in ~30 seconds without contest. And they can skirt around most maps undetected thanks to their speed and ECM making it impossible to target them unless it is visual.

In all three games, a friend and I both went to stop them at our base, but there was little we could do. With ECM blocking our chat, we couldn't tell our PUG team what was happening and we couldn't use anything but direct-fire weapons due to ECM jamming. They were running all around us like a bunch of rabid shrews. Combine all this with the lag shield most fast mechs get and we both got taken out within seconds from their combined SSRM and laser barrages.

I know what's going to happen: Some are going to harp about how terrible of a player my friend and I are and how easy it is to counter a situation like this. To that, all I can say is that I hope you face this group under these circumstances for yourself. YOU-WILL-DIE. Unless you're group is also running 4 ECM mechs to counter their 4 ECM mechs, you will be at a huge disadvantage.

I think that scenarios like this illustrate the need for a better rock, paper, scissors mechanic regarding ECM, BAP, and TAG. Right now, ECM beats ECM, TAG is pathetic, and BAP doesn't do anything at all against ECM. They need these three pieces of equipment to counter each other in different ways to keep the game asymmetrically balanced. As it is presently, there's no real way to beat a group like this unless you are fortunate to have the majority of your team there to fight them off with sheer firepower/numbers, or you also have 4 anti-ECM mechs.

Edited by ShadowVFX, 10 December 2012 - 11:42 AM.

[Codejack]

Yep. Now imagine an 8 man of ECM Commandos, each with 3xSSRM2.

[Rusty Dildeaux]

Quote

With ECM blocking our chat, we couldn't tell our PUG team what was happening and we couldn't use anything but direct-fire weapons due to ECM jamming.

lawl

Edited by Rusty Dildeaux, 10 December 2012 - 11:28 AM.

[GioAvanti]

ECM doesn't block chat.

[Rofl]

I was the friend in this situation, with an ECM equipped Raven built to hunt and kill other ECM mechs. Didn't matter though, as so long as they have 1 more ECM than our group, it's GG. I couldn't deliver much damage since my streaks werent firing and 2 medium lasers vs 3 ravens and a jenner... I don't think I have to explain why that's not going to work so well.

[CoreHunter]

it is getting sad.

[Taryys]

Yea, organized groups are tough to beat when you are not organized yourself. No argument.
I was not aware that ECM stopped your ability to type in the the chat window.

The introduction of ECM really shows why scouts are needed to scout. If scouts were really out there and concentrating on finding the enemy, this would be less of an issue. I do realize that there is just enough map to make this some work, and it would be possible to miss them if you are not looking.

I do agree that BAP needs to not be completely disabled and allow something as a partial counter for ECM... partial anything would be good.

[Tacophagist]

Rofl, on 10 December 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

I was the friend in this situation, with an ECM equipped Raven built to hunt and kill other ECM mechs. Didn't matter though, as so long as they have 1 more ECM than our group, it's GG. I couldn't deliver much damage since my streaks werent firing and 2 medium lasers vs 3 ravens and a jenner... I don't think I have to explain why that's not going to work so well.

Why did you bring SSRM's to hunt mechs that are set up specifically to counter them? Use SRM4's or SRM6's.

Quote

I was not aware that ECM stopped your ability to type in the the chat window.

It doesn't.

Edited by Tacophagist, 10 December 2012 - 11:35 AM.

[Jakob Knight]

I can't see how you can call this abuse since this is exactly what the devs intended. Using a piece of equipment and its abilities as given by the devs without exploiting loopholes that are obviously not supposed to exist would be abuse, but all of this is what the devs want. It was pointed out many times before ECM was implemented that this would be one of the results, and it was put in anyway.

Maybe it isn't -balanced-, but it isn't abuse. It is simply players using a piece of equipment the devs have provided, and the game evolving into the Counterstrike Online the devs desire it to be instead of what they had posted when people were buying their Founder's packs (the money is in now, so no need to keep their word on things like Role Warfare or First Person Only).

[PurpleNinja]

Just report then and move on. K.

[Suko]

GioAvanti, on 10 December 2012 - 11:29 AM, said:

ECM doesn't block chat.

I could swear I read in a post that this was going to be part of ECM. It seems you're right. Still, trying to explain that there are 4 ravens @ base with ECM and SSRM isn't too easy when you are fighting for your life against the 4 rabid shrews.

[Prat]

Totally agree. Unfortunately all you'll get is "Learn To Aim" from the tools that now run a COM-2D with 3xSSRM2 ... (or in your case Ravens with 2xSSRM2

If BAP countered ECM at a certain range, that would take away all the gripe I have about ECM.

[Taryys]

Agreed. voice is your friend:

[Guide] Playing with Friends, Groups, and Teams


Rabid shrews.... love it!!

ShadowVFX, on 10 December 2012 - 11:35 AM, said:

I could swear I read in a post that this was going to be part of ECM. It seems you're right. Still, trying to explain that there are 4 ravens @ base with ECM and SSRM isn't too easy when you are fighting for your life against the 4 rabid shrews.

Ummm... what is there to report?

PurpleNinja, on 10 December 2012 - 11:35 AM, said:

Just report then and move on. K.

[Odins Fist]

ShadowVFX, on 10 December 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

Alright, I find it difficult to call this an "exploit", but it certainly is a abusing the ECM system. 3 times last night I encountered the same 4 man.

In all three games, a friend and I both went to stop them at our base, but there was little we could do.

.
"ANYONE" that has a hard time, and "CAN'T" deal with "ECM", needs to toatlly rethink their approach to playing a match.
With new technology, adaptation is the key to survival, if you continue with 2 dimensional thinking you will not win..
.
I have "ABSOLUTELY" no problems fighting against teams tha run "ECM", and I do "NOT" run "ECM" myself..
Sorry, but you're going to have to "LEARN" to adapt your strategies, you won't be able to play like you have been..

[TruePoindexter]

ShadowVFX, on 10 December 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

Alright, I find it difficult to call this an "exploit", but it certainly is a abusing the ECM system. 3 times last night I encountered the same 4 man team where each member one was running an ECM Raven equipped with SSRMs and med or large lasers. They would all scout along the perimeter to capture the base in each game. 4 mechs on base means it can drop the base to 0 health in ~30 seconds without contest. And they can skirt around most maps undetected thanks to their speed and ECM making it impossible to target them unless it is visual.

So watch for them. Except for Frozen City there are no hidden routes to the base.

ShadowVFX, on 10 December 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

In all three games, a friend and I both went to stop them at our base, but there was little we could do. With ECM blocking our chat, we couldn't tell our PUG team what was happening and we couldn't use anything but direct-fire weapons due to ECM jamming. They were running all around us like a bunch of rabid shrews. Combine all this with the lag shield most fast mechs get and we both got taken out within seconds from their combined SSRM and laser barrages.

ECM does not block chat.... PUG players may ignore you but ECM definitely does not block chat. Also the overwhelming majority of weapons are direct fire... you only loose out on two weapon types while jammed with ECM.

ShadowVFX, on 10 December 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

I know what's going to happen: Some are going to harp about how terrible of a player my friend and I are and how easy it is to counter a situation like this. To that, all I can say is that I hope you face this group under these circumstances for yourself. YOU-WILL-DIE. Unless you're group is also running 4 ECM mechs to counter their 4 ECM mechs, you will be at a huge disadvantage.

You think that ECM blocks chat. You're not helping your case here.

ShadowVFX, on 10 December 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

I think that scenarios like this illustrate the need for a better rock, paper, scissors mechanic regarding ECM, BAP, and TAG. Right now, ECM beats ECM, TAG is pathetic, and BAP doesn't do anything at all against ECM. They need these three pieces of equipment to counter each other in different ways to keep the game asymmetrically balanced. As it is presently, there's no real way to beat a group like this unless you are fortunate to have the majority of your team there to fight them off with sheer firepower/numbers, or you also have 4 anti-ECM mechs.

Rock paper scissors is a horrible balancing mechanic. Mechanics need to be interesting not absolute. TAG is getting bumped up in range and hopefully BAP gets a buff.

Edited by TruePoindexter, 10 December 2012 - 11:42 AM.

[PurpleNinja]

Taryys, on 10 December 2012 - 11:37 AM, said:

Ummm... what is there to report?

Dunno really. But anything that someone figures out it's called exploit around here.

[Taryys]

Agreed.

TruePoindexter, on 10 December 2012 - 11:40 AM, said:

Rock paper scissors is a horrible balancing mechanic. Mechanics need to be interesting not absolute. TAG is getting bumped up in range and hopefully BAP gets a buff.

[Rofl]

Tacophagist, on 10 December 2012 - 11:34 AM, said:

Why did you bring SSRM's to hunt mechs that are set up specifically to counter them? Use SRM4's or SRM6's.

Because I can counter them as well? And streaks work wonders on light mechs moving at 138kph, like the 3xSSRM 2 commandos. It's the exact same reason they carry 3 streaks and not the larger nonstreak launchers.

I know it's all about checks and balances, but 1 ECM really should be able to counter ALL ECM's within it's counter range. The benefit of multiple ECMs should be to spread it out and cover more area, not blanket and cripple another ECM mech. It's (in my humble opinion) poor game design when the only way to counter something is to bring more of it. That's not a checks and balances system, it's an arms race.

[Kraven Kor]

So, turn on thermal and see them sneaking around? I can see this as more of an issue on Caustic, but, yeah... there are no secret routes to your base.

I've had teams sneak by us before and, well, props to them. They outplayed us; outmaneuvered us. Is it a glorious victory for them? No, but it is a victory.

At least now you can sneak around a bit, you know?

[Hovertank]

I am wholeheartedly against any form of ECM abuse.

Think of those poor ECM's!

Edited by Hovertank, 10 December 2012 - 11:46 AM.