104 replies to this topic

[Prat]

Adapt I can.

Keep quiet about a blatant imbalance I cannot.

[Khobai]

1) ECM is overpowered. We all know it. Defending ECM just makes you look stupid.

2) Using ECM in an intended way (hide your mechs) to win games by quick base cap is not "abuse". Abuse is using things in unintended or exploitable ways to win games.

[Odins Fist]

Khobai, on 10 December 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:

ECM is overpowered. We all know it. Defending ECM just makes you look stupid.

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Adapt...

Prat, on 10 December 2012 - 12:11 PM, said:

Adapt I can...
Keep quiet about a blatant imbalance I cannot.

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HA HA HA... Obviously not...

[Prat]

Khobai, on 10 December 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:

1) ECM is overpowered. We all know it. Defending ECM just makes you look stupid.

2) Using ECM in an intended way (hide your mechs) to win games by quick base cap is not "abuse". Abuse is using things in unintended or exploitable ways to win games.

Once again totally agree. The group that used them did NOTHING wrong. They used a game mechanic that is perfectly legitimate and played well. Their play is not at question.

The issue is with 4 lights WITH ECM >>>>>>>>> 4 lights without

[Justgreen]

I've read a lot of pro's and con's about ECM.

It is a really nice gadget to have but at the same time it's been really frustrating to play against with all my builds using ssrm.

So my opinion is that as much as it is overpowered as it is now, it is a piece of equipement I would like to keep in the game.

Therefore, a solution is necessary to balance the ECM.

Of course the bap and Narc could be buffed a little bit, but I would like to bring different approach here today. 2 ideas actually ... bah lets make it 3 lol

1- Like the engine, using an equipement require energy, wich create heat.
As you start your motor, you see a small % of heat building up on your bar. ECM could do the same thing... By setting a certain amount of heat created by the ECM, the Mech carrying it won't be able to have as much firepower as a mech without. The Mech would also be more suceptible to system shutdown due to overheat.

2- Like in many other game, cloacking device only work for a limited amount of time before it has to be recharged. It could be set the same way as jetpacks are set. As soon as you toggle it on you have lets say 2minutes of cloacked time before it has to recharge. So it would still be usable to hide your group to get in a tactical position, but you would have to be more careful after the timer expire.

3- Fix the Flamer! I am a Jenner driver. My job is to Scout, annoy big bad robots and hunt pesky little mechs. If the Flamers were building up heat in the enemy instead of bein capped at a certain point, I could chase those ECM runners and make them overheat, temporarely deactivating the ECM. (ok this argument is more self centered, but I'm trying to bring up new ideas)

So New Ideas might be something to develop on. Feel free to express yourselves

[Prat]

Odins Fist, on 10 December 2012 - 12:15 PM, said:

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Adapt...


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HA HA HA... Obviously not...

And you'd know this how? Do share

[JokerVictor]

ECM doesn't need to be changed. It needs effective counters that aren't ECM, that's it. BAP needs some boost, maybe a boost to detection range outside the bubble, and greatly increased lock-on time inside it, but not completely disabling missile locks. I saw a really good idea about PPC's causing a 3-5 second disruption in the targets electronics, which would be fantastic (combined with the velocity boost, that would make PPC's a pretty awesome weapons system, fingers crossed.)

But that's a bit off-topic, your main problem is that you're trying to kill lights with medium lasers... not a good idea. Use big guns, aim for the legs. Doesn't take long to hamstring a light, then you can use those medium lasers.

Edited by JokerVictor, 10 December 2012 - 12:20 PM.

[Odins Fist]

Prat, on 10 December 2012 - 12:17 PM, said:

And you'd know this how? Do share

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You're saying it's OP, and the other guy says...
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Jakob Knight, on 10 December 2012 - 11:47 AM, said:

So, I'd like to see you play a StreakCAT in a PUG with zero help and zero ECM of your own, and see how you 'deal' with it, since it is entirely a matter of player skill. Or even an LRM unit. A pilot can only work with the tools they are given, and putting it all on the pilot is a cop-out.

And before you say 'don't run Streaks' or 'don't run LRMs', I'll remind you that they are weapons in the game, and therefore such advice is just as invalid as having people tell direct fire weapons to just not use them when the yelling was about LRM boats.

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I see "GOOD" pilots "STILL" using Streaks and LRMs to great effect... You can't..??
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Or are you not backing the other Quote..??

Edited by Odins Fist, 10 December 2012 - 12:21 PM.

[Suko]

JokerVictor, on 10 December 2012 - 12:19 PM, said:

ECM doesn't need to be changed. It needs effective counters that aren't ECM, that's it.

Totally agree.

Prat, on 10 December 2012 - 12:17 PM, said:

And you'd know this how? Do share

Yeah, Odin is coming across as a gigantic pr*ck to me. All is responses have essentially been, "You suck, get better. LOLOLZ".

Edited by ShadowVFX, 10 December 2012 - 12:21 PM.

[Odins Fist]

ShadowVFX, on 10 December 2012 - 12:20 PM, said:

Totally agree.


Yeah, Odin is coming across as a gigantic pr*ck to me. All is responses have essentially been, "You suck, get better. LOLOLZ".

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I'm not saying you suck, i'm saying "DROP" the 2 dimensional thinking and adapt... I never said you suck.. EVER

[Pygar]

If they can fix it so that sensor/targeting upgrades like TAG, BAP and NARC foil ECM then everything will make sense again- I really like some of the things that ECM is bringing to battles, but mechs that give up space for enhanced sensor gear should be able to deal with the ECM better.

BAP mechs should have at least some chance of getting targets for themselves through ECM, while TAG and NARC mechs should be able to highlight targets for their team despite ECM.

[Prat]

Odins Fist, on 10 December 2012 - 12:19 PM, said:

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You're saying it's OP, and the other guy says...
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I see "GOOD" pilots "STILL" using Streaks and LRMs to great effect... You can't..??
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Or are you not backing the other Quote..??

You see GOOD TEAMS supporting an LRM pilot - There, fixed that for ya.

I play a DDC now so I'd say I've adapted quite well, but do go on, more ASSumptions, please

[KingNobody]

I think one of the main problems is that NARC is near completely useless (and is countered by ECM). If NARC were buffed so that ECM didn't counter it, we'd see more 'mechs running NARC as opposed to none, and have a new weapon in the antiECM arsenal.

[JokerVictor]

Odins Fist, on 10 December 2012 - 12:23 PM, said:

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I'm not saying you suck, i'm saying "DROP" the 2 dimensional thinking and adapt... I never said you suck.. EVER

Odin's got a point here. The best thing that ECM has done for this game is greatly discourage 'one trick pony' builds. You can't expect an incredibly specialized build to still succeed when there are such effective weapons to use against it. Streak cats are still in use, and they still pack a decent punch. But, they have to driven with great care now, and they can't be used as a mass unit tactic anymore.

[Stormur Herra]

Tacophagist, on 10 December 2012 - 11:34 AM, said:

Why did you bring SSRM's to hunt mechs that are set up specifically to counter them? Use SRM4's or SRM6's.

You know what I do when I run into an enemy COM-2D that brought SRMs instead of SSRMs? Murder him while barely taking any damage. SSRMs are the correct weapon for hunting enemy ECM mechs. You just can't have them out-ECMing you by so wide a margin.

To be fair though if you have 4 light mechs coordinating a base rush, they would probably have won anyway in a PUG game even with no ECM, especially if they have the capture speed module and your team is full of heavies that are away from the base. The only thing though is... would that be fun? I'm not a fan of base rushes because I like shooting at the other team.

[Coryphee]

I'm so bored about all that anti-ECM topics...
Seriously guyz, just stop crying and learn to play with this new parametre...

ECM changed the gameplay and the stategy, just adapt yourself (So quit your skilled CATA-streack or your full LRM boat ) and balance your equipement.

Thermic vision is now your best friend !

Don't blame ECM because you are 2v4 lights defending your base : 4 Jenner should kill you easly too !

[Codejack]

soarra, on 10 December 2012 - 11:54 AM, said:

did we need a new ECM thread?

Is it fixed?

[Grendel Toot]

Problem is that adapting to ECM basically means make sure you have more of it than the enemy, thus many mechs are useless.

[Odins Fist]

Prat, on 10 December 2012 - 12:26 PM, said:

You see GOOD TEAMS supporting an LRM pilot - There, fixed that for ya.

I play a DDC now so I'd say I've adapted quite well, but do go on, more ASSumptions, please

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First, you didn't fix anything for me, I neither had a problem, "NOR" did I have any misguided interpretations of the reality of the situation... "PERIOD".
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Secondly, I do "NOT" run a D-DC, nor do I use "ECM" or "BAP", and i'm not having any problems leaving those that do in a smoking pile of newb, so I guess either i'm really lucky, or I have adapted my behavior on the battlefield to deal with Mechs that run "ECM"... And as I have success, over & over again, it would seem that "LUCK" is out of the equation...
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I still have a D-DC, but the Atlas I do run "normally" dispatches a D-DC before it can do sufficient damage to my Mech before I can get 2 to 4 more kills... Screenshot December 6th, 2012, as an example...
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No ECM for me... But the other team had it, they just weren't very lucky huh..??

Edited by Odins Fist, 10 December 2012 - 12:35 PM.

[Suko]

This episode of Extra Credits is actually quite relevant to the SSRM/LRM debate. Which should have its own thread, but whatever.

http://penny-arcade....ncing-for-skill